New to the MTG community. Need some help with first deck. (Page 2 of 2)

"I'm playing a competitive game and trying to win, and you are playing the same game, so you are also playing a competitive game and trying to win." Can you see the fallacy here? Please don't press your personality, likes, and dislikes on me.

For me, the joy of Magic is not in winning. Of course I enjoy winning. But the real joy, for me, is in creating. I build my own deck, play it myself, and I improvise with it in-game. I don't create things in a vacuum, and of course I see what other people are doing to get ideas. But at the end of the day, the deck is something I put together, and it is this process of creation from which I derive my enjoyment. Just like all the musicians out there playing music not because it pays the best, or because they are the best, but simply because they like doing it.

Such joy is what makes Minecraft a great game. The only thing Minecraft does well is allow players to create. There are better survival games, better action games, better crafting games, better looking games, even games that run smoother. Minecraft players enjoy creating something, and that is why they play Minecraft.

Not everyone enjoys creating things, or even creating things in the same way. Just because you enjoy the competition and winning for their own sakes doesn't mean I do, and just because I enjoy the creation doesn't mean you do.

Now let's set aside the ridiculousness and not turn this into a flaming thread. You have an argument with me, send me an email and bash against me all you want. Let this thread be about helping Dorynnos with his deck, regardless of the direction he chooses to take it.

Alright guys, calm down... there really isn't a debate to be had here...

Johnny vs. Spike... it's quite alright to be a little bit of both.

The simple point I like to take away is that you can look at the top builds to learn from them.  You don't have to take their lists card-for-card (unless you really want to), but there's a lot to be learned from the more polished, more competitive players.  To create a deck is certainly fun, it's the biggest challenge I enjoy in the game, BUT, it's also silly to "create" a sub-optimal version of the same deck if it's already out there.

So, Dorynnos, there's a LOT that's been tossed at you in a very short period of time.  That being said, you really have four options for the deck:

1) Remain U/W and try some of the suggestions to see how it goes.  This might not perform as well as you would like in a competitive environment, but if blue really has the feel for what you like, then run with it.  Figure out what under-performs, find solutions, and figure out a new way to take the deck.

2) Go mono-white.  This will open up some space for many of the cards suggested and it has the potential to be a bit more successful competitively (I'd argue its upside is a bit higher).  But, you'll run the risk of getting bored with the deck quickly as it'll have pretty much the same lines of play every game.  Further, you lose out on some of the most enjoyable heroic trigger spells.

3) Switch gears entirely to R/W.  This probably has the highest upside of any of the heroic decks and I've actually seen some home-brews at my LGS do relatively well following this strategy.  It opens you to a lot more quality removal (see Chained to the Rocks or ANY burn spell) and even some added fun with Akroan Crusader and Anax and Cymede (both of whom are big fans of Phalanx Leader).  You can also slide in fun heroic triggers ranging from Titan's Strength to Coordinated Assault to Dynacharge and Weapon Surge.  So there are certainly a lot of ways to run with this deck.

4) Go completely outside the box and try to put all the comments made here together into ONE deck.  If you like U/W, but R has the best combo pieces for you, why not go U/W/R and try to fit everything in?  In fact, here's an American Heroic deck I tossed together on paper a few weeks ago that I've yet to even sleeve up to try.  http://deckbox.org/sets/523862  To be honest, the build actually looks like a fair bit of fun and could probably be built without dropping a fortune on the lands if you're just wanting to dink around.

I hope the bit of a squabble between elpablo and Xan doesn't turn you off or scare you away from asking for more advice.  You have to keep in mind that there are different types of players in the game, some who are more focused on trying to be competitive and win (elpablo) who follow the "Spike" archetype, and those who are more focused on being creative in their path to victory (Xan) who follow the "Johnny" archetype.  Don't stress their debate, just have some fun and, with any luck, some of the suggestions we've offered here will have given you some ideas, taught you something, or otherwise will help you have fun.

Good luck!

Remember you're life total in this decks is a cushion.  The only life total that matters to you is zero.  Don't be afraid to take damage to get your threats accross.

For the white deck.

1/1 creatures unless they provide relevant abilities usually aren't desirable.  the soul mender should probably be cut and so should the hopeful eidolon for something like boros elite or dryad militant.  I like the elite better the ability to become a 3/3 on turn 3 is pretty good. 

I kind of like gift of orzhov it provides much needed evasion, this is what ajani does in the white list I posted as well as additional damage. The life gain is very relevant too.  Putting gift on captain on turn 3 can make sure you produce a token most of the time.  If you could get them I might run some number of spear of heliod and gift of orzhov.  You don't want too many creature enchants though because removal can 2 for 1 you and that's no bueno.

Indestructibility is a gimmick card, it looks neat but on turn 4 what are you making indestructible in this deck?  a 2/2?  maybe a 3/3?.  That's not very scary.  You need to be dropping threats on turn 4 to close out the game on turn 5.  In most aggro decks a turn 5-6 kill is what you're shooting for.  I realize you may not have access to some of the cards like heliod, reckoner, or ajani, if you could get a hold of a gideon he's okay in this deck too.

For the red deck.

I think you're on the right path here.  Let me offer a little more advice.  This deck is better off as a nearly mono red deck. You can splash a little white, but I feel you're a little heavy white right now.

In this deck you want to trigger heroic.  You're going low and fast to make this work.  In this deck madcap skills is actually very good. A turn one crusader followed by a madcap is 5 damage on turn 2.  This would seem greedy in most decks, but it's actually the point of a deck like this. Also, Firedrinker satyr is a better 1 drop in this kind of deck than soldier.  He can pump, he's the same body/toughness.  If not fire drinker then rakdos cackler or even Foundry Street Denizen would be better.

Thinks like ash zealot and chandra's phoenix are strong here so are cheap damage cards like shock and lightning strike.

Labrything champion and Anax and Cymede are too expensive and slow.  For champion You play him turn 4, he can't attack or do anything useful until the next turn and then you have to have a spell to target him, and he's only a 2/2.  Fanatic of mogis is a much much better 4 drop.  Lets say you've managed to deal  the following damage/plays on your previous turns, assuming none of your creatures get removed.

Turn 1: Crusader
Turn 2: Madcap, 5 damage
Turn 3: Phoenix, 7 Damage
Turn 4: Mogis, 5 damage from mogis,
Turn 5: this is a total of 17 damage in 4 turns, you only need 3 more to win.

Lets say they removed crusader on turn 3 after attacks.

Turn 1: Crusader
Turn 2: Madcap, 5 damage
Turn 3: Phoenix, 3 Damage, because crusader was removed, the token is still in play
Turn 4: Mogis, 3 damage from mogis, This is a total of 11 damage
Turn 5: it's very possible, to attack with the pheonix/mogis/token at this point dealing 7 damage, you could play another mogis, or a couple burn spells to finish them, all you need is 9 points. Double boros charm does 8, charm+lightning strike does 7.  There's lots of ways to win at this point.

You would not be able to make these plays with anax or champion.

Other 3 drops to consider are hammer of purphorous, that means that mogis can come down do damage and smack for 4 on turn 4. Also boros reckoner of course would help fanatic of mogis do a lot of damage.

Last edited by elpablo (2013-12-05 14:30:20)

Temple of Triumph is what you want.  You don't need a lot of mountains to turn on chained (also be aware it needs to say mountain in the "type" field of the card to count as a mountain, thus the temple is not a mountain).  You just need "enough" 4 might be too few, but you might only need 1 more... testing will tell*shrug* Like i said in the other post.  I would ex-nay most of the white in that build anyway. 

If you plan to go to FNMs, standard is, usually what the format is.  If you wanted to play modern, vexing devil is not the route you'd want to go for an aggro deck anyway.  (Hint: vexing devil wasn't very good even while it was in standard).

Standard currently is, Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze, M14, Theros.  That's it.

Last edited by elpablo (2013-12-05 15:25:54)

http://deckbox.org/sets/549212 alright is that better???

Just going to focus on the Mono Whit deck. The R/W just costs to much at the moment.

Last edited by Dorynnos (2013-12-05 18:06:54)