I've been trying my heart out to get a few FTV Cephalid Coliseums to finish my playset and it's really bringing me down.  Help a brother out here, people.  If you have some that you don't care about please just start a trade with me.  I got shit.  I want your Coliseums.  Is that too much to ask?

Recently came into the possession of one of these, and know it can go to a better home than I'll give it.  If anyone's interested, let me know what you value it at and I'm sure we can work something out.

53

(0 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

I lucked into a bunch of Boros Charms and I'm passing the savings on to you!  I have no use for them so just want to be rid of them.  Any offers?  In particular looking for Narcomoeba, Manabond, Graveborn Cabal Therapy, anything else in my wishlist or anything else of higher value.

Title says it all.  I'm Bob-less and need to fix this situation.  Anyone interested, contact me.

I found myself with two dryad arbors when I only really need one, and much prefer the FTV art to the FS art.  If anyone prefers the FS art to the FTV, or just wants to double their arbors, hit me up.

56

(50 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

grossoggodeckbox wrote:

Looks like you didn't read Thrun's comment.  Thrun very plainly states that the sender is responsible for ensuring the cards are delivered.  That did not happen in this case. 

A 50/50 split is in no way fair.  Lets pretend for a minute that we are not trading via the mail, but rather use this site to organize a face to face trade.  OP arrives at the meeting place with cards in hand.  Other trader arrives at the site and says that they lost their bag on the way there, but that if you give them the cards and they give you $15 everything is even.  Does the trade happen?  The definition of 'trade' is to transfer ownership of goods between people.  If we accept that what I just described is a trade, then we should also accept that the trade discussed in this trade was not completed.  The two parties agreed to transfer ownership of cards... which is a bit more than just sticking something in the mail.  It means ensuring that the exchanged property arrives at the intended destination. 
The issue here is not the value of the cards, of that the cards were lost in the mail, but rather that the trade was not completed.  The cards should be returned, as simply as that. 

Even though the vast majority of posters in this thread would choose to do the right thing when confronted with an unfortunate situation such as this, the official rules should be updated in a manner which makes it clear to every Doubting Thomas what the community expects of them should they find themselves in this situation.

If Thrun's comment is the official ruling on the deckbox rules, then I would be inclined to agree with you that what the traders in this case agreed to was 100% liability on the part of the sender for lost mail.  The entire debate hinges on what constitutes proof of sending as per the deckbox rules, and if Thrun is an authoritative source on the subject due to his position as moderator then I'd happily defer to his judgement.

That being said, your analogy does not make any sense.  The difference between a mail trade and a face to face trade is at what point each of the parties fulfill their end of the agreement.  In a face-to-face trade, the agreement is done when the cards physically change hands.  In the mail trade, however, the agreement is done when either the cards are in the mail, or the cards are received.  This is up to the parties to either determine between themselves or determined by the standard rules, in this case the deckbox rules.  If the parties agree that they have fulfilled their end of the bargain when the cards are in the mail, and it is proven they are in the mail, then they have upheld their end when the cards are in the hands of the USPS.  If they agree that they have upheld their end of the bargain when the cards arrive, then the risk stays with the sender until the USPS does their job.  Either way, it is up to the people involved in the mail trade to determine who holds the risk for cards that are lost in transit.  Prior to Thrun's ruling, if he is the deciding authority (and no disrespect to Thrun, I just have no idea who the official arbiters of the deckbox rules are, if they've ever officially declared any), then a person reading the deckbox rules could fairly presume that if they post the cards and they have a tracking number proving the cards are in the mail, then they have upheld their end of the bargain and whatever happens next is not their responsibility.  It is on that basis that I said the sender has no responsibility to the OP.

57

(50 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

nowa90 wrote:
foldingcouch wrote:
grossoggodeckbox wrote:

As I see it, this situation is no different than had the OP ordered an item from an online store which was lost in the mail.  The course of action which should be taken next were that to happen would not be debated by anyone, as we all would agree that the OP should be refunded by the online merchant.  Look at it this way: Would you give an ebay seller or Amazon 50% of the value of your order because it was lost in the mail?   No, and in fact it would be preposterous for anyone to suggest you should.  I don't know why that same argument is somehow considered reasonable in this forum.

The problem with this argument is that the OP did not order an item from an online store.  The OP ordered an item from an individual, and they discussed and agreed upon the conditions for each of them sending their cards.  Presumably both of them were aware of the risks when sending cards online, and chose to accept the risk that there would be issues with delivery.  Unfortunately for the OP, their cards did not arrive.  I've been in their position before and it's horrible.  That being said, it's unreasonable to go back to the sender and say that, despite the fact that they agreed upon the manner of sending, and that each would accept the risks involved with their agreed upon method, it is now the sender's responsibility to compensate the OP for 100% of the value.  If they wanted to saddle one party or the other with the whole of the risk before sending, they should have done so at the outset.  Unless there is a clear rule indicating that 100% of the loss shall reside with the sender in cases of non-delivery then I think the 50/50 split of the losses is more than reasonable on the part of the sender, it's generous.

Please explain to me how they share a 50% loss? All I see is OP lost 30$ in trade value, and the other half got they're cards. I'd either get the guy to send the cards back or give him cash/paypal.

The problem with just returning the cards or paying for them outright is that the sender is then the one out 100% of their value when they have (at least from the sounds of it) fulfilled their end of the bargain to the letter.  They packaged and shipped the cards exactly as they agreed, and are then being expected to carry 100% of the loss for what was in no way his or her fault.  Like I said in my original post, this is the way that the parties decided to handle the risk in the original agreement, unless there is a clear rule on the deckbox rules that says otherwise.  Both parties upheld their ends of the bargain, one got screwed due to circumstances neither of them could control.  A 50/50 split seems fair.

58

(50 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

grossoggodeckbox wrote:

As I see it, this situation is no different than had the OP ordered an item from an online store which was lost in the mail.  The course of action which should be taken next were that to happen would not be debated by anyone, as we all would agree that the OP should be refunded by the online merchant.  Look at it this way: Would you give an ebay seller or Amazon 50% of the value of your order because it was lost in the mail?   No, and in fact it would be preposterous for anyone to suggest you should.  I don't know why that same argument is somehow considered reasonable in this forum.

The problem with this argument is that the OP did not order an item from an online store.  The OP ordered an item from an individual, and they discussed and agreed upon the conditions for each of them sending their cards.  Presumably both of them were aware of the risks when sending cards online, and chose to accept the risk that there would be issues with delivery.  Unfortunately for the OP, their cards did not arrive.  I've been in their position before and it's horrible.  That being said, it's unreasonable to go back to the sender and say that, despite the fact that they agreed upon the manner of sending, and that each would accept the risks involved with their agreed upon method, it is now the sender's responsibility to compensate the OP for 100% of the value.  If they wanted to saddle one party or the other with the whole of the risk before sending, they should have done so at the outset.  Unless there is a clear rule indicating that 100% of the loss shall reside with the sender in cases of non-delivery then I think the 50/50 split of the losses is more than reasonable on the part of the sender, it's generous.

59

(0 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

Looking or fetches, especially Polluted Delta, Wooded Foothills, and Windswept Heaths, and some lower-value duals, such as Bayou and Badlands, but sure wouldn't say no to a Taiga or Tropical Island. 

Have: Tolarian Academy, Time Spiral (x2), Snapcaster Mage, Sulfur Falls, Energy Field (x3), Ancient Tomb, Glimmervoid, Defense of the Heart and others.  Check out my profile for the full tradelist.

Also, have a revised Tundra in excellent condition that I would consider trading for a similar quality Underground Sea.  Message me if interested.