1

(0 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

OK, this is a weird one but bear with me. My wishlist (https://deckbox.org/sets/47426) has several promos on it (FNM, Judge, GP, etc) that only exist in a foil printing. There's no non-foil version of an FNM promo Cultivate, for example.

Now observe this trade:

https://deckbox.org/trades/582693?s=4934

This user has a promo I want. But when I look at this user's profile, those promos do not appear as cards on my wishlist that are on their tradelist. They've marked it in their list as a foil promo, but in my wishlist I haven't indicated the foil-ness, so it isn't matched.

OK, let's say I change my wishlist to explicitly list it as a foil. That will cause it to appear in the trading opportunities section. But now observe _this_ trade:

https://deckbox.org/trades/582531?s=4934

When I look at this user's profile, they have indicated they have a promo that I want, but they haven't set that promo to be foil. So if I set my wishlist to be foil, the card won't appear here either! No matter how I enter the cards on my wishlist, I'm missing out on potential trades with people who have the cards, but haven't set the exact same details I have.

Relaxed matching is supposed to alleviate this, but as near as I can tell, it isn't actually doing anything. I see the same results from everyone regardless of what I set.

meldon44 wrote:

Let me just make sure I understand your need correctly.

Say you do want 1x Cryptic Command from the Invocations for your Egyptian-themed EDH deck, but you also have two other EDH decks that require Cryptic Command. For those, you merely want the artwork that is used for Lorwyn / Modern Masters / Modern Masters 2015, but you don't care about edition.

You would want to be able to input them into your wishlist as follows:

1 | Cryptic Command | Invocation
2 | Cryptic Command | LRW or MMA or MM2

You would NOT want to input it as follows...

1 | Cryptic Command | Invocation
1 | Cryptic Command | LRW
1 | Cryptic Command | MMA
1 | Cryptic Command | MM2

...because you only need 2 copies of the non-Invocation artwork, not 3 copies.

Is that the idea?

I believe that anytime you offer a user more granular control, it's better. So I'm all in favor of this change. That said, I bet it would entail fairly foundational changes to Deckbox's database tables and SQL queries, so it would probably be a long time coming. But still a great idea!

Yeah, that's basically the exact idea. At the moment the only options are "I want this card regardless of set" and "I want this card from this specific set"; I'm proposing that a third option in between those would be useful.

On another trading site, I have the ability to specify a single want that has multiple sets. For example, I may decide I want one Cryptic Command from Lorwyn _or_ Iconic Masters _or_ Modern Masters, but not the Invocation or MPR version. Under Deckbox's current system, each of these would be considered a different want and I'd have to add it 3-4 times.

Thoughts?

4

(0 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

Over the past few days, I've noticed that the Inventory & Tradelist pages are timing out constantly and failing to load, as are many of the JSON requests around them; adding to inventory, adding to decks, card name search, etc. The home page is mostly fine, as are these forums. Opening up a browser console, https://deckbox.org/sets/47424 hangs in the pending state and eventually the browser terminates the request.

Often the _second_ request will work, but then trying to sort by modified date times out again, and this one never comes back.

Headers:

Request URL: https://deckbox.org/sets/47424
Referrer Policy: no-referrer-when-downgrade
Provisional headers are shown
Referer: https://deckbox.org/
Upgrade-Insecure-Requests: 1
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_12_6) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/69.0.3497.92 Safari/537.36

Tried with and without uBlock enabled, seems to make no difference.

I was trying to open a trade with someone today and was unable to create the trade, and unable to e-mail the user directly. My guess is that I've been blocked, although I have no idea why.

Anyways, the point is that I'm still able to see this user in my trading opportunities, and I'd argue this isn't a real opportunity. I totally get why you wouldn't want a "This user has blocked you" kind of message, but what about blocking hiding both users from each others' TO pages, not just the blocker?

Agentdark wrote:

Honestly I dont think refusing to send first should be considered a red flag. I have known of people getting burned very badly on other sites by traders with alot more feedback/refs.

YMMV but this is sadly especially true for non-US traders. I have a lot of people with zero or little feedback asking me to send first because "you live in Canada and I've had problems dealing with Canada before." I understand that Americans try to avoid their post offices at all costs, but if you're trading high-value cards you can't just slap a stamp on an envelope and call it a day.

sebi, I think some kind of system where the more established of a trader you are, the higher card value you can have "in progress", is the only system that will help against what you describe. There's no way to design an exploit-proof system, so if we shift the goalposts to limiting liability, that's at least a step in the right direction. It's a toss-up, would you rather have a large number of unprotected new users, or a smaller number of protected ones? I know which I'd choose, but you're the boss smile

What would be the difference between verified and established?

Frankly any limit on "new users can only trade X dollars at once" will be too high for some people and too low for others. So it's already arbitrary, it's just a question of what arbitrary amount annoys the fewest people. tongue What's the threshold for mail fraud in the US? That's probably a reasonable cut-off point (at least at first), that way you have to be verified to trade at a level where not following through might have non-MTG consequences.

rfioren makes a good point; if someone is actively trying to work around whatever trade protections have been put into place, that's already a sign that they aren't trading in good faith, so that doesn't have to be a factor in designing those protections.

rfioren wrote:

I DEFINITELY think that once a trader has an OPEN issue/complaint to resolve, that they should not be able to initiate new trades,

I'm singling this out as a really really good idea that should probably be independent of all the discussions here.

I think a new system for discouraging scammers is great, but I'm skeptical that a tiered system would accomplish anything. Someone who wants to steal cards could simply do enough low-value trades to climb the ladder, then initiate a bunch of high-value trades, take the cards and run. The barrier would still be too low, and in the meantime you'd prevent new users from using the site for its intended purpose.

Here are a few things that I think would discourage scammers:

- verifying accounts through the use of established addresses, credit cards, however.
- formalizing an escrow system (that'd be a LOT of work though)
- preventing users from having too many trades in progress at once?
- establishing that users with a low or different enough trade record should send first

I disagree with the star-rating idea, the nature of Internet reviews means that most reviews will be either 5-star or 1-star, so it'd be no different from the +1/-1 that already exists.

TheWorldHatesPaul wrote:
PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:

It's too late, everyone here is trying to ship their Ports to unsuspecting people and dumping Wastelands as fast as possible. Duals are already on the rise. If you don't move within 24 hours of a major set announcement, you're screwed.

Indeed...
https://deckbox.org/trades/392926?s=4934
https://deckbox.org/trades/394151?s=4934

Both of those were made before the set announcement, but hey try torpedoing my reputation again smile

It's too late, everyone here is trying to ship their Ports to unsuspecting people and dumping Wastelands as fast as possible. Duals are already on the rise. If you don't move within 24 hours of a major set announcement, you're screwed.

11

(179 replies, posted in Announcements)

100000520842029 wrote:

It should be a question of is premium the only one and correct way to go?

It's certainly not the only option, and without knowing the full history of the site I can't say whether or not it's the correct one. I do know it has worked for other MTG-related sites like MTGPrice, Star City, PucaTrade, and so on. So I totally understand why it would be worth trying.

Kickstarter and other one-time donation schemes are good for infusions of cash, for things like initial print runs or individual features, but they aren't meant to be a recurring source of income.

12

(179 replies, posted in Announcements)

^^ Re: Marketplace, there wasn't a lot of negative discussion like here, but there were a LOT of "well I guess I'll just sell my cards somewhere else now thanks for nothing" responses.

As for the paywall vs. premium, I'd say the opposite is true. What we did (that didn't work) is take away the content and features that used to be free. That's what I find most people mean when they talk about a "paywall", and I don't think that ever really works. Premium membership is a far better way of raising funds, as you offer a product or service that people are willing to pay for.

The discussion of "which features should be premium" is important and worth having, but no one is having that discussion here. All I'm seeing is a lot of "good luck getting MY money!" talk, which is unproductive at best, and even worse when you consider the disposable income necessary to play MTG as a hobby at all.

13

(179 replies, posted in Announcements)

9700377 wrote:

If you actually read the post you're alluding to, the accusation is that Deckbox purposely reduced the matches per page in order to offer a high number of matches as a premium service. It would make the site look sketchy if true.

I don't think framing the concerns as whiny entitled children vs. business-savvy adults is particularly productive.

I wasn't trying to frame it that way, I was literally saying that the majority of MTG players are high school and college/university students, or recent grads, and a very small minority are working professionals who have been in the working world enough to understand the situation sebi is in. Being expected to work for free, or having your work disparaged because you had the gall to charge for it, can be very psychologically damaging.

I work for a news agency that has experimented with an actual paywall since last year, and we've decided to go back to a free model that focused more on ad revenue. But we didn't make that initial paywall decision because we were trying to hurt the community or be greedy; we were made it because we were trying to find a new way of making profit digitally in the 2010s, which is really hard to do. Once we decided it was not profitable to maintain, we cut it because that's what businesses do. The amount of income generated by making previously-free features cost money is usually dwarfed by the loss of income caused by alienating your clients.

When Deckbox launched the Marketplace, they had the same situation; they saw a way to generate revenue that didn't depend on page views. And our community's immediate reaction was to complain and try to find ways to sell cards without having to pay sebi and the team. That attitude of "everything I want should be free because I pay you in good feelings" is not sustainable for anyone who wants to grow their business.

(For everyone suggesting crowdfunding, I think you're overestimating what those are capable of. Look at how many people are complaining about simply being given a choice to pay more for extra features or not; imagine how they'd react if they were asked to just give money with no guarantee of anything)

14

(179 replies, posted in Announcements)

If that were the case then we would be having a conversation about "here are features the site doesn't have that I would be willing to pay for", not "well I guess it's time to cut ties with Deckbox entirely."

15

(179 replies, posted in Announcements)

psrex, have you never heard people complain about SCG's premium fees? You should've seen the outcry when they increased the prices a few years ago.

I think it's pretty sad that the community expects sebi & the rest of the team to literally work for free and pay for all the hosting and maintenance costs for the site out of their own pockets. I've never seen a group so entitled and demanding, while at the same time so unwilling to pay even the smallest amount for their demands. I know that this probably comes from the community mostly being younger, suburban, upper-middle class kids who may not understand how insulting and depressing it is to be expected to work for free, but it still stuns me every time.

Imagine if you spent months of your own time and hundreds of your own dollars building a product, gave it away for free to the community, and watched them thank you and congratulate you and talk about how awesome your product was. Then the second you said "Hey, since you all like this so much, do you think you can help pay me back for all the money I spent making it?", the community responds with a giant "fuck youuuuuu!" Would you ever produce anything for them again? Because guess what, that's exactly what happened when they launched the marketplace, and it's exactly what is happening now.

If not enough people sign up for the premium memberships, they'll either modify the benefits until they do, or find another way to generate the income they need to justify putting any more work into the site.

Quick question, why did the "X cards, Y distinct" part of the header get taken out? I actually used those numbers to reconcile my list here with the list I maintain on other sites.

17

(2 replies, posted in Canadian Traders)

You'll get a better idea of the value by removing the commons and uncommons first. They're worth barely anything and you'll probably get bulk rates ($10 per 1000 cards) on them at best.

If you do want to sell singles I'd take a few things off your hands. smile

18

(11 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

I'll start up a trade with you, I'm interested in that Verdant (can you post a scan with the draft stamp?) and a bunch of other modern stuff you have, and I have UWR stuff to move.

gnp17 wrote:

Right now deckbox does not allow international sales sad sorry!

They just released it with version 3.3, I think all you need to do is add foreign shipping options.

Trying to buy and it says you're in vacation mode?

21

(1 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

I can't seem to cancel order #837. Despite the site telling me it's been cancelled, it's still showing up as open.

I totally understand the disallowing of off-the-record sales, but to be honest, this site was by far the best way for me to purchase cards from dealers in the US without having to pay $20 or whatever ridiculous amount Paypal auto-calculates. Are international sales somewhere on the list of upcoming features?

Is this the place to report price discrepancies, then? Because the WPN promo Path to Exile is displaying $0.00 when marked as foil, but gives a real price when marked as non-foil (the card itself is only foil).

Dammit sebi now I have to go through and update my entire inventory!

(Kidding, this is an awesome addition and I'm glad to see it).

25

(389 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

AngryJayJay wrote:

Ponder foils 30$ and 45$ has to be wrong smile

http://store.tcgplayer.com/magic/magic- … 12)/ponder

This one might actually be correct.