After a recent negative experience with an underage trader, I'm wondering what the majority view here is. Do you think it's okay for minors to trade and sell? Personally, I would like to know if the person I'm trading with is an adult or minor.

It seems kind of odd that this site is basically helping people make trading contracts (although not worded so strictly as a normal contract). In general minors can't be bound by contracts. They can basically leave/break contracts as they see fit. Even worse, an adult who has entered a contract with a minor is still bound by law to uphold their part of the contract. Scary.

As per Deckbox's own Terms and Conditions, minors shouldn't even have accounts here:

You may use Deckbox only in compliance with these Terms. You may use Deckbox only if you have the power to form a contract with Deckbox and are not barred under any applicable laws from doing so.

Minors do not have the capacity to contract (by law in most states) Some clarification on this would be great.

I agree with you, but with one caveat. One shouldn't barr minors from trading on deckbox, and one way to amend that issue could be a clause requiring express consent from their parents or legal guardians to create an account.

I realize that this may be a slightly futile effort, since there is no real way to guarantee that this is done, but it would mean that the minor would be subject to repercussions if anything is forged, if not them, then their parents/legal guardians.

To be honest, I don't think someone's ability to trade well has anything to do with their age. I've had awful experiences with people in their 30's, and great trades with people under 18 (hell, under 14).

Requiring parental permission won't help, as people will just lie about their age like they do on every other site, and their age will only become relevant if you actually file for mail fraud, and I've never heard of anything coming of that anyways.

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:To be honest, I don't think someone's ability to trade well has anything to do with their age. I've had awful experiences with people in their 30's, and great trades with people under 18 (hell, under 14).

Requiring parental permission won't help, as people will just lie about their age like they do on every other site, and their age will only become relevant if you actually file for mail fraud, and I've never heard of anything coming of that anyways.

Did you read the post? It has nothing to do with their ability to trade, its to do with their ability to somewhat legally scam people because they aren't bound by the contract you make with them.
Parental Permission WILL help because it will make their parents liable to complete the contract.

I'm sorry for having wrote the address incompletely but even adults do that sometimes. This has nothing to do with the age of the trader. I will make sure either your cards get sent back or i'll resend the mire when it comes back.

HansonWK wrote:

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:To be honest, I don't think someone's ability to trade well has anything to do with their age. I've had awful experiences with people in their 30's, and great trades with people under 18 (hell, under 14).

Requiring parental permission won't help, as people will just lie about their age like they do on every other site, and their age will only become relevant if you actually file for mail fraud, and I've never heard of anything coming of that anyways.

Did you read the post? It has nothing to do with their ability to trade, its to do with their ability to somewhat legally scam people because they aren't bound by the contract you make with them.
Parental Permission WILL help because it will make their parents liable to complete the contract.

Take the attitude down, yes I did read the post. My response is that requiring parental permission won't help because it won't prevent or discourage minors from trying to rip people off. If they are a scammer, permission won't stop them, and if they aren't a scammer, permission is totally unneeded.

If you can't trust your trade partner to get their cards to you safely, no matter what their age, then you shouldn't be trading online. Expecting some combination of the law, the forum admins, and the USPS to protect you isn't a substitute for protecting yourself.

HansonWK wrote:

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:To be honest, I don't think someone's ability to trade well has anything to do with their age. I've had awful experiences with people in their 30's, and great trades with people under 18 (hell, under 14).

Requiring parental permission won't help, as people will just lie about their age like they do on every other site, and their age will only become relevant if you actually file for mail fraud, and I've never heard of anything coming of that anyways.

Did you read the post? It has nothing to do with their ability to trade, its to do with their ability to somewhat legally scam people because they aren't bound by the contract you make with them.
Parental Permission WILL help because it will make their parents liable to complete the contract.

Basically what I was thinking. I'm surprised an admin/mod hasn't commented on the terms and conditions. As it is, pretty much everyone under 18 (in the US) is in violation as it's written and shouldn't be using the site. Not my opinion, I'm just reading what it says.

If you can't perform all steps of the trade yourself - pulling the cards, giving accurate information on condition, print out a paypal shipping label, mail the cards yourself - you shouldn't be trading online. I've found that asking for pictures of cards involved in trades is a great way to screen out people who aren't likely to be able to mail something.

Paul_K wrote:I am of the opinion that any age should be able to use deckbox.

I agree with Paul K! Why do we need to limit who we trade with. I've been trading here and online trading since i was 16! (Now 21) I've had no problems. So why would i not be able to trade with anyone based on my age. Just because you're 18 and older doesn't make you a good trader... Age should make no difference

No problem with it.

Any age should be able to use deckbox but if they are responsible for something going wrong, their legal guardians have to take responsibility.

Maybe, when joining deckbox make users provide a legal form of ID to the website?

grossoggodeckbox wrote:If you can't perform all steps of the trade yourself - pulling the cards, giving accurate information on condition, print out a paypal shipping label, mail the cards yourself - you shouldn't be trading online. I've found that asking for pictures of cards involved in trades is a great way to screen out people who aren't likely to be able to mail something.

I guess I shouldn't be trading online, then. :P
I don't use paypal shipping labels... granted, I am living in Canada, and I'm realizing more and more that everything favors America and gives Canada a big ol' middle finger, I still try my best to make sure that everything is safely shipped, and that any issues that arise from my trading partner are dealt with in a timely and satisfactory manner for both parties.

I have to disagree with the asking of pictures of cards, though. Just because someone can't take a picture of a card shouldn't prevent them from being able to mail something. I don't own a scanner myself (no access to a decent digital camera, either), but I do scrutinize cards that go into trades to make sure that any discrepancy is noted and, if the condition turns out to be something other than what is listed, I do notify my potential trading partner in case it's a potential issue so it can be resolved.

Id Just like to point out that this is a collectible card game where every pack has the phrase "Ages 13+".

Personally, I havent really noticed a specific issue with trading with younger people or older people. Ive never really noticed a difference. If anything Ive had bigger issues with "older" people rather than younger...

Mattssacre wrote:After a recent negative experience with an underage trader, I'm wondering what the majority view here is. Do you think it's okay for minors to trade and sell? Personally, I would like to know if the person I'm trading with is an adult or minor.

It seems kind of odd that this site is basically helping people make trading contracts (although not worded so strictly as a normal contract). In general minors can't be bound by contracts. They can basically leave/break contracts as they see fit. Even worse, an adult who has entered a contract with a minor is still bound by law to uphold their part of the contract. Scary.

As per Deckbox's own Terms and Conditions, minors shouldn't even have accounts here:

You may use Deckbox only in compliance with these Terms. You may use Deckbox only if you have the power to form a contract with Deckbox and are not barred under any applicable laws from doing so.

Minors do not have the capacity to contract (by law in most states) Some clarification on this would be great.

I think it's fine for minors to trade and sell. Functionally, it's the same as trading and selling with an adult since I'm never going to go to the trouble of hiring a lawyer and suing someone for breach of contract over 20, 30, or even 150 bucks in cards.

in my opinion the minor appears to be handling it with more maturity than you are. what does that say about the very argument you're making?

VampireArmy wrote:in my opinion the minor appears to be handling it with more maturity than you are. what does that say about the very argument you're making?

Perhaps you should address the person you're trying to communicate with. Since I'm the OP, I'll assume it's me.

The minor who's handling it more maturely than I am did nothing but lie for the first two weeks of our trade. When you can't trade face to face, all you have is the other person's word to go on. Perhaps you're some sucker who likes to be lied to, but that doesn't fly with me. Liars are straight cowards, if he would have owned up to his mistakes early on, I wouldn't have even made a deal of it. You might want to learn your facts before you come in here talking sh*t. Did you even read my post? You must have zero reading comprehension, since you completely missed the point of the post. (Pro tip: Legality) I wouldn't be surprised if you're a minor too.

Mattssacre wrote:

VampireArmy wrote:in my opinion the minor appears to be handling it with more maturity than you are. what does that say about the very argument you're making?

Perhaps you should address the person you're trying to communicate with. Since I'm the OP, I'll assume it's me.

The minor who's handling it more maturely than I am did nothing but lie for the first two weeks of our trade. When you can't trade face to face, all you have is the other person's word to go on. Perhaps you're some sucker who likes to be lied to, but that doesn't fly with me. Liars are straight cowards, if he would have owned up to his mistakes early on, I wouldn't have even made a deal of it. You might want to learn your facts before you come in here talking sh*t. Did you even read my post? You must have zero reading comprehension, since you completely missed the point of the post. (Pro tip: Legality) I wouldn't be surprised if you're a minor too.

Whoa-ho-ho Mr. hostility over the keyboard warrior has bite. Let's address things one at a time shall we

1. He owned up to those lies, when taken to the BRP, (where this discussion should have stayed mind you)

2. I don't like to be lied to or scammed as much as the next joe what's his face but that doesn't give me the right to lead a witch hunt on the poor kid for his mistakes.

3. I've read every post and comment that came up with your btr as it seemed interesting to read. you're the one who escalated it this far. The BTR was handled, yeah? So be a man like you say you are and get on with your life and leave the rest of us alone. Didn't you ever learn not to gamble with anything you're not prepared to cover or lose? well thats what you get for online trading.

4. For a guy who wants everyone on you're side, you're damn quick to jump down any nay-sayers throat. I'm 19 years old, im not afraid to admit it because i have over 30 plus trades, including with one of the mods of this site itself and never had a problem that couldn't be resolved peacefully. But of those problems, did i get on here and make myself look like a jackass over it? sure didn't.

So in closing, guy. Next time be smarter about how you do trades and cover your ass and maybe you won't be a sucker in the trade? and don't get your panties in a bunch when people call you on being an asshole. this is why people don't lke trading online in he first place. shit is too hostile. It's a card game people, wanna be a big spender? there's plenty of sites that would lve your buisness and they are 100% more credible than trading online. if you wanna save your cards from being lost? demand shipping on both sides. if you arent decent enough to do either, then you S.O.L.

Mattssacre wrote:

VampireArmy wrote:in my opinion the minor appears to be handling it with more maturity than you are. what does that say about the very argument you're making?

Perhaps you should address the person you're trying to communicate with. Since I'm the OP, I'll assume it's me.

The minor who's handling it more maturely than I am did nothing but lie for the first two weeks of our trade. When you can't trade face to face, all you have is the other person's word to go on. Perhaps you're some sucker who likes to be lied to, but that doesn't fly with me. Liars are straight cowards, if he would have owned up to his mistakes early on, I wouldn't have even made a deal of it. You might want to learn your facts before you come in here talking sh*t. Did you even read my post? You must have zero reading comprehension, since you completely missed the point of the post. (Pro tip: Legality) I wouldn't be surprised if you're a minor too.

Reading through your responses in this thread and your last one has me thinking that the point of your posts is to complain about your poor trading experience under the guise of constructive discussion. You're expending a lot of energy on something (scams) that will probably never change in the future.

VampireArmy wrote:

Mattssacre wrote:

VampireArmy wrote:in my opinion the minor appears to be handling it with more maturity than you are. what does that say about the very argument you're making?

Perhaps you should address the person you're trying to communicate with. Since I'm the OP, I'll assume it's me.

The minor who's handling it more maturely than I am did nothing but lie for the first two weeks of our trade. When you can't trade face to face, all you have is the other person's word to go on. Perhaps you're some sucker who likes to be lied to, but that doesn't fly with me. Liars are straight cowards, if he would have owned up to his mistakes early on, I wouldn't have even made a deal of it. You might want to learn your facts before you come in here talking sh*t. Did you even read my post? You must have zero reading comprehension, since you completely missed the point of the post. (Pro tip: Legality) I wouldn't be surprised if you're a minor too.

Whoa-ho-ho Mr. hostility over the keyboard warrior has bite. Let's address things one at a time shall we

1. He owned up to those lies, when taken to the BRP, (where this discussion should have stayed mind you)

2. I don't like to be lied to or scammed as much as the next joe what's his face but that doesn't give me the right to lead a witch hunt on the poor kid for his mistakes.

3. I've read every post and comment that came up with your btr as it seemed interesting to read. you're the one who escalated it this far. The BTR was handled, yeah? So be a man like you say you are and get on with your life and leave the rest of us alone. Didn't you ever learn not to gamble with anything you're not prepared to cover or lose? well thats what you get for online trading.

4. For a guy who wants everyone on you're side, you're damn quick to jump down any nay-sayers throat. I'm 19 years old, im not afraid to admit it because i have over 30 plus trades, including with one of the mods of this site itself and never had a problem that couldn't be resolved peacefully. But of those problems, did i get on here and make myself look like a jackass over it? sure didn't.

So in closing, guy. Next time be smarter about how you do trades and cover your ass and maybe you won't be a sucker in the trade? and don't get your panties in a bunch when people call you on being an asshole. this is why people don't lke trading online in he first place. shit is too hostile. It's a card game people, wanna be a big spender? there's plenty of sites that would lve your buisness and they are 100% more credible than trading online. if you wanna save your cards from being lost? demand shipping on both sides. if you arent decent enough to do either, then you S.O.L.

Once again, did you read my post? There is no way to cover your ass when making deals with a minor. Plain and simple. I don't give a shit if people like me or not. I was simply stating what this website's terms and conditions. It's about legality. You had to go and turn it into something else, so that's on you homie. A witch hunt huh? I only said I recently had a bad experience, I didn't say nothing else about that incident until you brought it up. I'm hostile lol. The shit would have been gravy had boy not lied. You see me having issues with any of my other trades? Nope, cause they weren't lying POS. okay, and since you asked... the BTR is definitely not handled yet, so once again, you don't know WTF are you talking about. I don't have my cards or his cards. So get your facts straight. "Demand shipping on both sides" WTF does that even mean. We did ship cards, I sure and hell didn't meet up with him for a trade and have issues. If somehow you were trying to say I should have used insurance, that wouldn't help. If you don't understand why at this point, there's no point in trying to explain it again.

Once again, did you read my post? There is no way to cover your ass when making deals with a minor. Plain and simple. I don't give a shit if people like me or not. I was simply stating what this website's terms and conditions. It's about legality. You had to go and turn it into something else, so that's on you homie. A witch hunt huh? I only said I recently had a bad experience, I didn't say nothing else about that incident until you brought it up. I'm hostile lol. The shit would have been gravy had boy not lied. You see me having issues with any of my other trades? Nope, cause they weren't lying POS. okay, and since you asked... the BTR is definitely not handled yet, so once again, you don't know WTF are you talking about. I don't have my cards or his cards. So get your facts straight. "Demand shipping on both sides" WTF does that even mean. We did ship cards, I sure and hell didn't meet up with him for a trade and have issues. If somehow you were trying to say I should have used insurance, that wouldn't help. If you don't understand why at this point, there's no point in trying to explain it again.

1. The point you came here in the first place was rant and rave after a trade didn't go your way. Why else would you bring this up?

2. You can cover your ass by checking all aspects of a person before sending 150$ worth of cards to them. getting to know a guy a lil better would help

3. yes sir, you cursed out another person before i even decided to reply. you are hostile.

4. let me quote one of our beloved mods from the post, yes? "Mattsacre and gravemole, you may choose one of two options:

Wait for gravemole to get the package back and send it again

Have gravemole send back Mattsacre's cards and cancel the trade

Please post back here once you've reached a decision. Thank you!" seems like they have you covered.

5. Excuse me, that was a writting error. What i meant to say is demand a tracked shipping before you send. i'm sure if you let some one know you'll be doing the same they won't mind sending first, granted you'll send the day you get the tracking number. If they don't, they're probably unsafe to trade with right? common sense my guy.

6. I'm saying if you're going to take the risk of trading online, expect at some point or another to have issues. i myself am waiting for my second week for a cavern of souls. not so bad, about 11 or so bucks but hey i might have a btr of my own . thats the breaks of trading.