Should we have a bad traders thread? Is it too much for a community based trading system? I'm completely biased due to a trader disappearing on me atm. What do you guys think?

How long should I wait before being slightly angry?

Theoretically the feedback system should let people know about bad traders. What could threads on here add to that? (By asking that I'm not implying they couldn't, but legitimately asking how it might be better.)

Disappeared how so? Has he supposedly shipped the cards and they haven't shown, or has he just stopped negotiating a trade?

My trader just responded today and everything is okay. The feedback system isn't as great as it could be, since it falsely inflates when people cancel trades. This is a community though, and I've heard very very little about people screwing each other over, especially when address trades are involved.

Yeah, basically with an address and name people can come cut you if you jip them. Plus who would want to loose such a valuable resource by ganking out on some < 20 trade (anything more and Deliver Confirm should be involved).

Even then, I believe it would be good practice to still have a bad traders forum. Basically a place where people can make claims/defend themselves. We want to build the community and having a forum of such would help the newcomers have a little faith in this system and being able to avoid rippers and the like.

There should be one sticky and the rest of the posts to open claims. However, there will be a need for someone to watch over and help mediate the problems as they arise.

Even if people have +X through the feedback system, you can simply click and find out what trades were real and which were cancelled. Either way, I vote that we should have a system/forum in place. It's just who wants to help mediate and run it is what else is important.

my 2cents.

Here is one idea, which is used on another forum I sometimes use: have a separate subforum devoted to feedback, and the topics are peoples' usernames. If you have feedback for a person, you post a reply to the thread about that person (or start one if there isn't one already). Feedback can obviously be positive or negative, and you can easily find information about an individual by just finding their thread in the feedback subforum.

Just an idea...I'm not saying it's the best answer necessarily.

heathen303 wrote:Here is one idea, which is used on another forum I sometimes use: have a separate subforum devoted to feedback, and the topics are peoples' usernames. If you have feedback for a person, you post a reply to the thread about that person (or start one if there isn't one already). Feedback can obviously be positive or negative, and you can easily find information about an individual by just finding their thread in the feedback subforum.

Just an idea...I'm not saying it's the best answer necessarily.

I think I'd love to have a forum post named after me. =)

I think if we have a separate forum section for feedback, it should only be in the case of rippers or bad traders. I think it would be too much clutter if everyone had their own thread for positive feedback.

Just make a sticky at the top of this forum. There's no need for a subforum. This community isn't as large, unwieldy or asshole-ridden as MTGS and other sites with a trading section.

I do agree with the above posts, the eBay-style feedback system is simply awful. A canceled trade before exchanging of addresses or even agreeing on principle should not allow positive or negative feedback.

I have a question in this vein; What is a bad trader? I had one guy string me along for 17 days, with only sparse communication like "sorry, I didn't have internet, let's do this" and tie up 2 really good/in-demand cards only to cancel it out of the blue. Does he deserve bad feedback? Neutral feedback?

rabidmonkeys wrote:I have a question in this vein; What is a bad trader? I had one guy string me along for 17 days, with only sparse communication like "sorry, I didn't have internet, let's do this" and tie up 2 really good/in-demand cards only to cancel it out of the blue. Does he deserve bad feedback? Neutral feedback?

Negative feedback should only be used in instances where addresses were exchanged and the cards never came in (or came in ridiculously late). If you never finalized the trades, I don't think negative feedback is necessary, but neutral feedback with an appropriate comment on the situation should work.

rabidmonkeys wrote:I have a question in this vein; What is a bad trader? I had one guy string me along for 17 days, with only sparse communication like "sorry, I didn't have internet, let's do this" and tie up 2 really good/in-demand cards only to cancel it out of the blue. Does he deserve bad feedback? Neutral feedback?

Think of it in simple terms: was this a net positive or negative experience? It sounds to me like it was a negative experience. As a trader myself, I'd want to know if some guy was stringing people along for almost three weeks. That's an unacceptable trading window. I respect your patience with him!

I disagree... if you feel like the trade is dragging on, just cancel it.

Some people just aren't as eager to get trades done, they have other things going on, etc. Doesn't mean that they're not trustworthy, just not what you were looking for in your ideal trade.

Even a single negative feedback could have a huge effect on somebody here. I think it should be reserved for people who screw you over. If someone is dragging their feet there's nothing stopping you from sending the person a message asking them to shit or get off the pot.

Hey guys,

Sorry to barge in your discussion, even if I'm not a member of your community ;)

Just wanted to point out we've made a post describing our intentions of making trade feedback more prominent in the Site discussion forum here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1574

Let us know what you think.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of feedback system on bad traders, both here and on reddit.

I sent to, on February 14th:
http://deckbox.org/users/GreyCr0ss [Matthew Pike] (also GreyCr0ss on reddit)

A bunch of cards worth about $15 in exchange for a Thrun, but it appears that he never sent it. He also isn't responding to emails or to our trading thread. I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again. :([/Matthew Pike]

marumari wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of feedback system on bad traders, both here and on reddit.

I sent to, on February 14th:
http://deckbox.org/users/GreyCr0ss [Matthew Pike] (also GreyCr0ss on reddit)

A bunch of cards worth about $15 in exchange for a Thrun, but it appears that he never sent it. He also isn't responding to emails or to our trading thread. I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again. :([/Matthew Pike]

You've got the patience of a saint for not dropping the hammer on him yet.

marumari wrote:I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again. :(

That is a very good point, I think they try to account for that at MTGSalvation by looking for duplicate emails/IP addresses right? That would be a hard thing to protect against without checking everyone's drivers license.

ZATZAi wrote:

marumari wrote:I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again. :(

That is a very good point, I think they try to account for that at MTGSalvation by looking for duplicate emails/IP addresses right? That would be a hard thing to protect against without checking everyone's drivers license.

That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

Thrun wrote:

ZATZAi wrote:

marumari wrote:I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again. :(

That is a very good point, I think they try to account for that at MTGSalvation by looking for duplicate emails/IP addresses right? That would be a hard thing to protect against without checking everyone's drivers license.

That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

True enough and I would consider a $15 trade like the OP was talking about a small trade. But yah, it can and will happen eventually, just gotta try and do small trades with the rookies and bigger trades with the vets.

Thrun wrote: That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

Do we have mods who would/could mediate a trade to also protect new people (especially from bad experiences and not ever wanting to use this system again)? Usually I would just ask them to send first if they have less ref's than I do.

Yeah, normally I require new traders (<3 trades) to ship first, but the frustrating thing is that I had already traded with this guy using that method, and then he turned around and stole from me on the next trade. Boo!

Kol wrote:

Thrun wrote: That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

Do we have mods who would/could mediate a trade to also protect new people (especially from bad experiences and not ever wanting to use this system again)? Usually I would just ask them to send first if they have less ref's than I do.

Since this is just a continuation of the trading thread on reddit, it's the same deal. No mods to mediate trades, so trade at your own risk. I'm sure most people understand that sending first is reasonable if they have no refs.

It's almost impossible to mediate a trade unless you use a middleman. I'd be completely willing to middlemen trades for free, but it just means that both parties will be paying double the shipping price. Not worth it for most people.

Kol wrote:

Thrun wrote: That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

Do we have mods who would/could mediate a trade to also protect new people (especially from bad experiences and not ever wanting to use this system again)? Usually I would just ask them to send first if they have less ref's than I do.

MTGSalvation does that, they just don't have anyone on the west coast or rockies. That's something worth considering here though I think.

Is there any way to provide negative feedback without canceling the trade? Once it's cancelled, it drops off the list of trades that people would see, so I worry that negative feedback wouldn't be too helpful.

marumari wrote:Is there any way to provide negative feedback without canceling the trade? Once it's cancelled, it drops off the list of trades that people would see, so I worry that negative feedback wouldn't be too helpful.

I do not believe so. You might want to drop a line in the thread linked earlier here because this is an excellent point.