When my oponent hide [whi]Bloodthirster[/whi] in a development and play [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off![/whi] to face it up...

May i play in response for this [whi]Long Winter[/whi] or destroy this development in any other method before Bloodthirster face up ?

This is correct and Rip Dere 'Eads Off! lose effect ?

[color=gray]Sorry for my not fluently english. [/color]

Yes, you can play Long Winter in response to RDEO, then if he does nothing in response you go to the resolution: Long Winter it resolves first and forces him to take up the development, then solve RDEO that misses because the development is no longer in play.
Different if he plays RDEO, you in response play Long Winter, he in response plays another RDEO, you pass, he passes. Go to resolution: the last RDEO turns the development, your Long Winter misses because the devolpment is no longer in play, his first RDEO misses for the same motivation.

Thank you for a response. This is very helpful reply :)

I'll use this thread, if you don't mind, since my question concerns [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off![/whi] as well.

According to the Rules Summary thread in this forum:

Q. If my opponent responds to me playing a hero with [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off[/whi] and reveals the same hero, what happens?
A. The hero that Rip Dere 'Eads Off revealed remains in play and is sacrificed at the end of the turn. The last hero to enter play (the version played from hand) is immediately sacrificed. James' ruling and FAQ v1.1

Do I think correctly that the example above is about my opponent playing his RDEO on my development? If so, how can he sacrifice my unit? In the same Rules Summary I see:

[whi]Bathe in Blood[/whi]
Q. Can you play this on an opponent's unit? If so, is it sacrificed.
A. Yes, you can, but you can only sacrifice your own units, so the "at the end of the turn" effect will have no effect.


Sorry if this is a silly question, but I am fairly new to WHI and couldn't find a specific information on this anywhere.

Our Rip ruling is a little outdated and needs to be corrected. If you look at the official FAQ, you will see that section has changed slightly and no longer says anything about what happens to the flipped up unit.
If the revealed development is a unit
that cannot be in play (such as a Hero
card in a zone that already contains a
Hero), then the unit that caused the
illegal state to occur is immediately
sacrificed.
If you flip up an opponent's unit with [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off[/whi], it is not sacrificed at the end of the turn (based on the [whi]Bathe in Blood[/whi] Q/A you quoted) due to Rip's effect.

In the 2 Hero example though, he is not sacrificing your unit. He is causing an illegal play state that can only be resolved by you sacrificing the unit you played from your hand.

Two heroes cannot be in the same zone at the same time. The Rip ruling you are quoting is just telling you what to do if that somehow happens.

Alright, so in fact one copy of the Hero (the one flipped over by RDEO) is going to stay in the game? (the one played from hand leaves play)

DaxYell wrote:Alright, so in fact one copy of the Hero (the one flipped over by RDEO) is going to stay in the game? (the one played from hand leaves play)

Yep

Thanks a lot for clarification, cheers!

Entropy wrote:If you flip up an opponent's unit with [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off[/whi], it is not sacrificed at the end of the turn (based on the [whi]Bathe in Blood[/whi] Q/A you quoted) due to Rip's effect.

What? I'm pretty sure it is sacrificed at the end of the turn, because that is the effect of the Rip Dere 'Eads Off! It's not like you're sacrificing something instead of your opponent.

Entropy wrote:In the 2 Hero example though, he is not sacrificing your unit. He is causing an illegal play state that can only be resolved by you sacrificing the unit you played from your hand.

What numer two. I taught you sacrifice hero that caused the illegal state to occur (which is the one flipped over by RDEO). If it was the other way round you could "snipe" enemy's heroes by flipping over developments. The hero played from hand leaves play and then the one from rip gets sacrificed.

Actually, Entropy's explanation does make sense - FAQ currently clearly states that you can only sacrifice cards you control. Flipping enemy development with RDEO does not make you control it. I guess :)

I know this, but it is the enemy who sacrifices his card via other card effect. Just like lobber, sacrifice to khaine etc.

yeah but those cards are specifially worded that you "force opponent to sacrifice (...)" or "each opponent sacrifices". RDEO does not say anything about that. it simply says flip and sacrifice. no word about giving you control over the flipped unit either.

i'm a bit lost now :rolleyes:

Easy Pickin's also doesn't specify who sacrifices the card. If you own the unit with lowest printed cost you sacrifice it as it's owner. The same with Rip. If it was played on enemy's development the enemy as an owner of said development will sacrifice it.

Virgo wrote:

Entropy wrote:If you flip up an opponent's unit with [whi]Rip Dere 'Eads Off[/whi], it is not sacrificed at the end of the turn (based on the [whi]Bathe in Blood[/whi] Q/A you quoted) due to Rip's effect.

What? I'm pretty sure it is sacrificed at the end of the turn, because that is the effect of the Rip Dere 'Eads Off! It's not like you're sacrificing something instead of your opponent.

Entropy wrote:In the 2 Hero example though, he is not sacrificing your unit. He is causing an illegal play state that can only be resolved by you sacrificing the unit you played from your hand.

What numer two. I taught you sacrifice hero that caused the illegal state to occur (which is the one flipped over by RDEO). If it was the other way round you could "snipe" enemy's heroes by flipping over developments. The hero played from hand leaves play and then the one from rip gets sacrificed.

1. I would have thought the same thing as you, but the ruling for Bathe in Blood is a pretty clear precedent in my opinion.

2. The example I am referring to here is where someone flips the development with Rip in response to you playing a Hero (which is the example from the FAQ). In that case, the development hero comes in first, and the one from hand comes in second (making it the hero that caused the illegal state to occur). If you already have the Hero in play, then flip a copy with Rip, you are right that it would not allow you to snipe the Hero from play.

As DaxYell pointed out, most sacrifice cards are worded as "opponent/target player must sacrifice". Easy Pickens just says "must be sacrificed" which still allows its owner to do the sacrificing. Rip and Bathe both just say "sacrifice it", which means that as the person playing the effect, you are doing the sacrificing. But you can't, since its not your unit.

Ok with the hero from hand coming as a second.

I looked up Bathe in Blood on our forums and found this (from Lukas to Darker):

It should probably say "you control," rather than assume it. Technically, you can only sacrifice units you control, so the effect wouldn't do you much good if you play it on another player's unit (which you can do) unless you wanted to deck them out or playing some sort team game.

But I can't agree that this logic aplies to Rip. So you play it on enemy's development and it turns out to be
a tactic. What happens? You can't sacrifice this card, because it's not yours. Or a support. Support definitely can stay in the game.

Rip says:
Action: Turn one target development faceup. If it is a unit, leave it in play and sacrifice it at the end of the turn. Otherwise, sacrifice it immediately.

I believe this effect can only be looked as a whole. If it turns out to be a unit it stays until the end of the turn when it is sacrificed by it's controller.

I can't see that this card was meant to give enemy free units (or free supports, quests, tactics?).

EDIT: please don't respond these cards become faceup developments...

That's a very good point. I think you are right that this card is worded in a way that makes it break when you play it on an opponent's development. The rulings we have are pretty clear that you can't sacrifice an opponent's card, so Rip should either force you to only target your own unit, or say "it is sacrificed" rather than "sacrifice it". Mallumo has put in a request to Lukas for clarification, so we should have an answer soon.

Entropy this card was played since core set without any problems, it only needs small FAQ question that specifies that the controler of the development is the one doing the sacrificing. Please don't hit it with nerf hammer :P

Virgo wrote:Entropy this card was played since core set without any problems, it only needs small FAQ question that specifies that the controler of the development is the one doing the sacrificing. Please don't hit it with nerf hammer :P

That sort of thing is beyond my control, though Lukas usually will try to just errata a card to be in line with how its commonly used, unless the card is being errata'ed for power reasons.

Any news about this?

No. I assume Lukas is busy preparing the next FAQ though, maybe the answer will be in there.