I've been trying to come up with a standard deck that uses Talrand, Sky Summoner as it's focal point and overwhelms the opponent with drakes, the issue is that I cannot for the life of me figure out what that could be, every time I do it the deck uses Talrand as a finisher, the best I've come up with that actually sort of works is this: http://deckbox.org/sets/196277, I'm not asking people to design a deck for me just to suggest cards that would work well with talrand, I'm wondering if some sort of blue green red ramp into tokens could work? Maybe with the new Krenko's Command and parallel lives?

I've been kicking around ideas for a Talrand deck (even though I don't even have any of them ;) ). But I was thinking just pure Izzet style R/B to be able to capitalize when RTR comes out. Talrand + lots of burn and counter spells + Reverberate/Increasing Vengeance + Chandra, the Firebrand. You'd just be dropping firebombs and controlling the board, drop Talrand and BAM we're talking LOTS of drakes.

I even had a thought about Archaeomancer + Ghostly Flicker and was trying to find some awesome ETB effect that would be able to provide the mana to do it infinitely - as you would play Arch, flicker him and (insert cool ETB card here), get the ghostly flicker back, rinse, repeat. Each one would give you more drakes.

I also like the idea of Charmbreaker Devils in there as another game winner, either by bringing back all the burning or just pumping it. But then again, Deadeye Navigator with said Archaeomancer would let you get all those spells back as you please at a cost of two mana per (which isn't bad if you want those Mana Leaks or Talrand's Invocations back ;) ).

In any event, you'd want to rock at least 2x Favorable Winds to ensure the drakes get at least big enough to face off with angels. You would also need some means to protect sir Talrand, as you KNOW he will be a prime target the second he hits the battlefield. Whether that comes in the form of flickering, counterspells, or hexproof equipment, I don't know, but I do know you would need some protection there (Elgaud Shieldmate anyone?)

I would be hesitant to bring green in as I've always thought two-color decks work better than three and outside of ramping, there isn't much reason to even bring green in there.

Now there is the possibility of pairing both Talrand AND Krenko in the same deck. It would be a beast to get the balance right, but man, could you imagine the flood of goblin and drake tokens?

I've tried to do a Talrand burn counter deck a couple different times but I've always found that the deck burns through all of it's spells too quickly trying to prevent your opponent from crushing you in the early game since I've found it hard to make a deck that gives you board position early game while keeping mostly burn and counter spells in the deck.

This is how I made it to the burning vengance build that I've got now, you use spells so that you've got what you need in your hand and the rest in the graveyard, the Grim Lavamancers give you Shock on a stick and the delver gives you early game aggro/board position. This is all a delay tactic until you can resolve a Burning Vengance or a Talrand which is when the fun starts

It works well as a straight up burn deck but it doesn't really have room for counterspells without using the 2 cost creature that I really hate (to the point of irrationality) since the deck relies on flashback

TyWooOneTime wrote:Now there is the possibility of pairing both Talrand AND Krenko in the same deck. It would be a beast to get the balance right, but man, could you imagine the flood of goblin and drake tokens?

God that sounds amazing, I'm actually going to go see if I can design that into a deck, my main issue is the number of cards in a deck and being able to have mostly instants/sorceries with still having lots of goblins

I just threw this together, it's pretty rough but it gives an idea, I think it should probably move to x3 of each card for variety since I feel like that's more important in a deck like this

http://deckbox.org/sets/211412

I think you need to clear out some of the burn spells for an even better burn spell that would work wonders with this deck..... Burn at the Stake. You're already going to be making tons of tokens and such. With Burn at the Stake if, at any point, you have seven creatures (most likely less than that, if you've attacked even once) then it is a killing blow.

Burn at the Stake would rock in a straight goblin deck, but I don't know how useful it would be here. Ideally the goblins will serve one of two purposes, either a) they help you overrun the enemy or b) they're just a TON of chump blockers. The real offense here would come via the drakes from Talrand, as a flock of 2/2 flyers can get nasty pretty quickly.

A few quick thoughts.

First, Chandra, the Firebrand would be perfect with Talrand, while also giving you some added punch here. To be honest, I'd make her the top of the mana curve.

Second, I know the four spot is already pretty full, but Talrand's Invocation would work wonders too. Even 2x of them, with Talrand out, that's four for three 2/2 flyers. Much less if you use Chandra to copy it, then you're looking at six drakes in one turn for only four mana.

Third, I can see where the Goblin Chieftains fit for the time being, but I'd actually likely drop 1-2 of them for Arms Dealer as those won't definitely help your attack as much, but they are more versatile in terms of clearing the way for your flyers.

Fourth, I'd also exchange Mental Misstep for Vapor Snag or Unsummon. Perhaps even something like Claustrophobia could make its way in here, as they might as well be full blown removal spells.

Fifth, I'm still on board with Favorable Winds or until rotation Adaptive Automaton - some means to pump all the drakes to help make them more dangerous (if only you could find a way to work in a touch of white for Intangible Virtue). The chieftains do that to some degree, but I like to think of the goblins as being expendible more so than the drakes - Goblin Grenades?

Lastly, god I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can see where Snapcasters or some other spell retrieval would be ideal here. The last thing you want is to run out of spells. Archaeomancer is the obvious choice, but that's just further crowding the four spot. Perhaps some sort of draw mechanic and Elixir of Immortality?

Chandra, the Firebrand won't work in the way you're thinking it will. Talrand only makes tokens when you cast a spell, and Chandra simply makes another copy of the spell on the stack, it doesn't cast it again.

Good eye Null... but you'd still score five drakes, not six.

I'm not sure, I tested this deck out solo, just drawing and seeing how it played out (Using proxies) and it kinda flopped, don't get me wrong it did some stuff right but honestly it just wasn't working, there were too many things trying to happen at the same time.

In regards to favorable winds, I understand the value of it, I really do but I don't think it's worthwhile, it's just too limited in scope, it boosts drakes and only drakes, thats a couple slots in the deck that are in my eyes wasted since they don't produce more drakes or really make the drakes much better like intangible virtue would, maybe if there were more fliers but as it stands I'm not really seeing it

Hrm... well, like I said, it'll be a pain to get the balance right, but I still think there's potential here. That and it should get some support in RTR given that Izzet is among the first five guilds to be in the block.

Perhaps I'll piece something together in the next few days and will see what it can do on Cockatrice.

Here's what I came up with in just a few minutes... if you want I can open up a new thread for it, but given that we're marching down this road here, I figured it would make sense.

http://deckbox.org/sets/211627

There are lots of sorceries and instants, a fair number of ways to replenish an emptied hand, and a fair number of ways to burn the opponent and/or his or her creatures, not to mention some counterspell items put in for flavor.

The creature offense comes via both Krenko and Talrand, but in a pinch you could sub in Burn at the Stake or some various items from the sideboard. Charmbreaker Devils are really just one more bomb, although I'd wager most people wouldn't think them to be one.

I'll admit I haven't playtested, but I can see where this might would work. Give it a whirl, I'm open to thoughts, etc.

Only thing I see right off the bat is that you might be better off with Think Twice compared to wild guess cause instant speed flashback can really catch your opponents off guard and in general I like to run more color balanced decks but that might just be me

That's definitely an option. But I didn't like paying two to just get one card... the flashback is nice... I dunno

Wild Guess only nets one card since you have to discard, it gives you options but this deck doesn't benefit from things in graveyard so without the addition of Runechanter's Pike (not a bad idea) the Wild Guess seems inferior to me, in late game when you top deck a land with nothing in hand having a think twice in the grave yard can be really nice

Also I like the charmbreaker devils since they'l be unexpected, no one uses them since they cost too much but with a goblin and drake swarm you could easily last long enough and with the card draw you should have land drops every turn

I can see what you're saying now about the two draw options. Runechanter's Pike might work, but I almost feel like for the four mana you're paying to drop and equip it, you could score a few added spells that will net more drakes.

Also, my bad for hijacking your thread. But I figure this is a good route to go with Talrand, if we can get it figured out (as there are currently only three decks on Deckbox that contain both Talrand and Krenko, and you and I currently have two of them).

TyWooOneTime wrote:Also, my bad for hijacking your thread. But I figure this is a good route to go with Talrand, if we can get it figured out (as there are currently only three decks on Deckbox that contain both Talrand and Krenko, and you and I currently have two of them).

Hardly, I didn't want a discussion about my deck I wanted a discussioon about how to make an interesting Talrand deck and I'm very happy with the results, I've been putting too much effort into making a boring standard deck and I want to spend some time working on a deck that's just fun that probably wont win alot but will be really fun to play either way