Topic: Understanding priority

Hey guys, it's me again.

I'll start off by saying that I've been playing all my life in the following way, and then read an article that said otherwise.

1. I cast a planeswalker, goes on the stack
2. It resolves
3. In an instant speed, before an activated ability is sent to the stack, the opponent plays Heroes Downfall
4. Heroes downfall resolves as Planewalkers abilities are sorcery speed
5. Planeswalker dies

Correct order, according to the article in question, would be as follows:
1. I have priority, therefore cast a planeswalker, goes on the stack
2. It resolves
3. Priority is regained as I am the active played
3. I activate the planeswalker's ability
4. In response, opponent casts Heroes downfall
5. Heroes Downfall resolves, planeswalker dies
6. Planeswalker's ability resolves

I have not been able to find a reliable source of information regarding priority.
Can you guys let me know if you know the rules in question? This will affect my gameplay a whole lot...

Thanks

Re: Understanding priority

The Stack

Re: Understanding priority

Jay4prez wrote:

Can you guys let me know if you know the rules in question?

Re: Understanding priority

Kammikaze wrote:

The Stack

I understand the stack.
My question is about priority and not stack, even though they are tightly connected.

Re: Understanding priority

Jay4prez wrote:
Kammikaze wrote:

The Stack

I understand the stack.
My question is about priority and not stack, even though they are tightly connected.

That article explains how both priority and the stack work.

Re: Understanding priority

It is my understanding that Planeswalkers are unique in that you maintain Priority throughout the resolution of the ability.

Example - You cast Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker which resolves and priority is passed back to you from your opponent. You than maintain that priority (so long as you dont do anything inbetween) and activate his +1 which would make him 4/4 Indestructable, Haste, Flying Dragon. Your opponent would than gain priority to respond and cast Hero's Downfall and put it on the stack. Sarkhan's ability would then resolve making him indestructable and then cause Hero' Downfall to fail as Sarkhan cannot be destroyed.

Planeswalkers were created such that their abilities would resolve within the stack. Yes you can only activate the abilites at sorcery speed (ie so really only the main phase of your own turn) but upon resolution and activating a walkers ability maintains the priority to iits controller so that there is chance to actually use it. Another example is that upon announcing your going to activate a planeswalker ability, your opponent cant Lightning bolt a PW to a lower loyality to prevent it being used.

Re: Understanding priority

Just search for "Magic comprehensive rules".  Open the PDF and look for section 116 on timing and priority.

Re: Understanding priority

Helios52 wrote:

It is my understanding that Planeswalkers are unique in that you maintain Priority throughout the resolution of the ability.

Example - You cast Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker which resolves and priority is passed back to you from your opponent. You than maintain that priority (so long as you dont do anything inbetween) and activate his +1 which would make him 4/4 Indestructable, Haste, Flying Dragon. Your opponent would than gain priority to respond and cast Hero's Downfall and put it on the stack. Sarkhan's ability would then resolve making him indestructable and then cause Hero' Downfall to fail as Sarkhan cannot be destroyed.

Planeswalkers were created such that their abilities would resolve within the stack. Yes you can only activate the abilites at sorcery speed (ie so really only the main phase of your own turn) but upon resolution and activating a walkers ability maintains the priority to iits controller so that there is chance to actually use it. Another example is that upon announcing your going to activate a planeswalker ability, your opponent cant Lightning bolt a PW to a lower loyality to prevent it being used.

This is not correct, Sarkhan dies before his ability resolves. The ability still exists independent of it's source so in most planeswalkers cases, they ability would still resolve, but sarkhans is different like some of Gideons in that he turns himself into a dude.  His ability still tries to resolve, but he's no longer there.

Re: Understanding priority

Helios52 wrote:

It is my understanding that Planeswalkers are unique in that you maintain Priority throughout the resolution of the ability.

Example - You cast Sarkhan, The Dragonspeaker which resolves and priority is passed back to you from your opponent. You than maintain that priority (so long as you dont do anything inbetween) and activate his +1 which would make him 4/4 Indestructable, Haste, Flying Dragon. Your opponent would than gain priority to respond and cast Hero's Downfall and put it on the stack. Sarkhan's ability would then resolve making him indestructable and then cause Hero' Downfall to fail as Sarkhan cannot be destroyed.

Planeswalkers were created such that their abilities would resolve within the stack. Yes you can only activate the abilites at sorcery speed (ie so really only the main phase of your own turn) but upon resolution and activating a walkers ability maintains the priority to iits controller so that there is chance to actually use it. Another example is that upon announcing your going to activate a planeswalker ability, your opponent cant Lightning bolt a PW to a lower loyality to prevent it being used.

It is not a special rule for planeswalkers.  Comp rules section 116 is the main area for this.

Basically, the active player has priority at the beginning of each phase/step on his or her turn. So on your main phase, you have priority. Your opponent can't cast an instant without you having the opportunity to cast something first. Say you are thinking about what to do, your opponent for some reason snaps out "bolt you" You can tell them you haven't passed priority yet, and you can cast your creature, enchantment, or planeswalker before they can cast their lightning bolt.

So when you cast your Sarkhan on the stack, stack resolves, now you have priority again. That is because you are the active player and it is your turn. Your opponent may desperately want to downfall your Sarkhan, but he can't because you haven't passed priority. When both players pass priority with an empty stack, you move to the next step/phase of the turn. So as long as you are thinking during a phase/step, you are in game rules holding priority. This is not different with planeswalkers than say if you cast Griselbrand. Your opponent is in a hurry to downfall her, but you get to use her pay 7 life draw 7 ability before he can cast his instant removal at her. When you activate the ability of Sarkhan or Griselbrand, then your opponent will get priority. if he downfalls in response to Sarkhan's +1 Sarkhan will die, because PW abilities use the stack just like other activated abilities. There are only 7 things in the game that don't use the stack, and they're all outlined under special actions in the comp rulles under 115.

The truth is most of the time this doesn't matter. If I play a Griselbrand and you snap out that you path it or whatever, I don't have to be explicit about activating the ability before path because I didn't pass priority, I can activate the ability in response to your path. However if someone is in a hurry to get rid of Sarkhan before you announce you are using +1, you can stop them, explain you had priority, and your going to use his -3 to kill their Courser. They played to quickly and revealed information they should have, they can't hurry you out of your turn, and that is more or less what priority is. It is my turn, i get to make my decisions about using spells and abilities first and you respond to me.

Last edited by jassi007 (2014-11-12 20:43:52)

Re: Understanding priority

I stand corrected then. I was refering to something I remember watching on one of SCG Versus Videos and after rewatching it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOWugAu … sdT4GatIq2 at about 8:00 minutes in) BBD refers to casting Sarkhan and immediately using is ability to get Sarkhan out of Stoke the Flame range. My apologies, I was remembering it differently.

Re: Understanding priority

The key things to remember about priority are:
- At the start of most* steps and phases, or after a spell or ability resolves, the active player (person whose turn it is) receives priority first.
- After casting a spell or activating an ability, then by the game rules**, the player who had priority before casting the spell or activating the ability receives it again.
- Costs of spells or abilities (including adding/removal of loyalty counters from Planeswalkers) are paid "up front," during the casting or activation of the spell or ability, and not later when it resolves.

* (No player receives priority during the untap step, ever, and usually not during the cleanup step either, unless an ability triggers or state-based actions are performed.  In that case, players do receive priority after, but then there will be another cleanup step following that step, and then another and another, if necessary, until eventually there is a "clean" cleanup step wherein nothing triggers and no state-based actions are performed.)
** (In tournament play, there is a shortcut whereby it is presumed that the player is passing priority at this point, unless he or she specifically states that they are retaining it.)


Helios52 wrote:

It is my understanding that Planeswalkers are unique in that you maintain Priority throughout the resolution of the ability.

False.  There's nothing "unique" about how Planeswalkers are cast or how their abilities are activated.  They are normal permanents which are cast as normal spells and have normal activated abilities.  This is how it breaks down:

1. Active player (AP) gets priority during a main phase and announces Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker.
2. AP puts Sarkhan on the stack as a spell and pays its cost using {3}{R}{R} obtained in an unspecified way.
3. AP gets priority and passes.
4. Non-active player (NAP) gets priority and passes.
5. The top object on the stack (the spell put there in step 2) resolves: Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker enters the battlefield as a permanent with four loyalty counters.
6. AP gets priority and announces the first loyalty ability of Sarkhan.
7. AP puts the ability on the stack and pays the cost by adding one loyalty counter to Sarkhan.  Sarkhan now has five loyalty counters.
8. AP gets priority and passes.
9. NAP gets priority and announces Hero's Downfall.
10. NAP puts Hero's Downfall on the stack, chooses Sarkan, the Dragonspeaker as its target, and pays its cost using {1}{B}{B} obtained in an unspecified way.
11. NAP gets priority and passes.
12. AP gets priority and passes.
13. The top object on the stack (the spell put there in step 10) resolves: Sarkan is destroyed.
14. AP gets priority and passes.
15. NAP gets priority and passes.
16. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 7) resolves: the permanent referenced by the ability no longer exists, so it resolves with no effect.
17. AP gets priority and...

So here, NAP can kill Sarkhan with the Hero's Downfall because, at the time when Downfall resolves, Sarkhan is not yet indestructible since the ability which would make him so is still on the stack and has not yet resolved.  Now if it were Jace Beleren and Lightning Bolt instead of Sarkhan and Downfall, it would be a different story:

1. AP gets priority during a main phase and announces Jace Beleren.
2. AP puts Jace on the stack and pays its cost using {1}{U}{U} obtained in an unspecified way.
3. AP gets priority and passes.
4. NAP gets priority and passes.
5. The top object on the stack (the spell put there in step 2) resolves: Jace enters the battlefield as a permanent with three loyalty counters.
6. AP gets priority and announces the second loyalty ability of Jace.
7. AP puts the ability on the stack and pays its cost by adding two loyalty counters to Jace.  Jace now has five loyalty counters.
8. AP gets priority and passes.
9. NAP gets priority and announces Lightning Bolt.
10. NAP puts Lightning Bolt on the stack, chooses AP as its target, and pays its cost using {R} obtained in an unspecified way.
11. NAP gets priority and passes.
12. AP gets priority and passes.
13. The top object on the stack (the spell put there in step 10) resolves: Lightning Bolt would deal 3 damage to AP, but NAP chooses to have that damage dealt to Jace Beleren instead.  Three loyalty counters are removed from Jace.  Jace remains on the battlefield with two counters.
14. AP gets priority and passes.
15. NAP gets priority and passes.
16. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 7) resolves: each player draws a card.
17. AP gets priority and...

In this case, NAP can not kill Jace with the Lightning Bolt, because by the time he even gets to cast it, Jace already has five loyalty counters.  Remember that the counters are added as the cost of activating the ability, so they are there before NAP even gets to act.  Note that had AP simply passed priority, or done anything else other than immediately activate the +2 ability of Jace after he resolved, then NAP could cast the Bolt in response.   In that case, AP could not activate the +2 ability until the stack was again clear, but by that time Jace would already be long-dead (in terms of priority passes, anyway) to the Bolt.

Last edited by IronMagus (2014-11-12 21:39:57)

Re: Understanding priority

Thank you guys,

I will become a good player eventually...

In the mean time, I'll try to stop crying at night.