Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

ok how bout this list.

http://deckbox.org/sets/952677?s=c&o=a

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

I drew several sample hands using deckbox's utility and the curve seems off somewhere, but i'm not sure exactly where. It got more playable hands than unplayable ones though. 

The 1 drops look bad if you can't play them turn 1 and with all the lands that come into play tapped IDK how that's going to work out.  Turn 2 heral/mystic isn't nearly as good as turn 1. You'll have to play it and see.

I think i'd make getting the right lands a priority if you want to play the deck seriously.

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

http://deckbox.org/sets/921684?s=c&o=a

Ok how bout something more like this. 4 elvish mystics, 2 sylvan caryatids, less weak soldiers for the ramping cards aswell as dragonlord dromoka and more instant/sorcery spells to work with.

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

This thing looks like it has gone off the rails.  For one, you've dropped too far off from your soldier tribal type theme.  If you're going to stray from that path this much there's really no point in Preeminent Captain being in here.

As for smoothing the curve, Elvish Mystic isn't going to do much for you here as the majority of your curve isn't based in green and, unlike some decks, is overwhelmingly colored symbols - most prominently white.  T1 Elvish Mystic doesn't help you get to a T2 Brimaz or even T2 Anafenza.  In fact, T1 Mystic means neither of those are possible and, in reality, you'll be casting Anafenza behind the curve and would need to hit your white/caryatids perfectly to even cast Brimaz on curve.  The issue here isn't a matter of mana quantity so much as getting it in the right colors.

Speaking of colors, I'll be just straight to the point here, four colors is very unlikely to work outside of control builds that are splashing for the 4th color.  The manabase here is a literal mess and will either a) deal a TON of damage to you or b) involve a TON of ETB tapped lands... this slows you down even further than you already were.

At this point I would say to either a) move back toward the soldier tribal bit - likely focus on prominently white and MAYBE work in a second color, or b) just drop the soldiers and figure out where the next idea lies as I don't see this one really getting there.

One of the most challenging, but also best things one can do as a deck builder/brewer is to sometimes just recognize that the idea won't come together, clean the slate, and start over again.

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

Im actually glad you made those comments.. I completely agree with you. This was from me trying out others advice for adding elvish mystic.. I dont like the feel of it and yes the color scheme is pretty messed up so yea I am just gonna revert back to full on soldiers.. I might keep the dragonlord dromoka tho for end game.

As you said, white is my primary color, and going abzan just makes sense for some of the removal/soldier cards I have chosen.. I was thinking of trying out the 4th color red so I could still use crackling doom and with that being said I figured I might be able to squeeze deflecting palm in, but as you said it will be too difficult to pull off consistently. Besides pulling out the red lands, I did add more basic lands to the mana pool.. Might need a few more tho at the time I think I have 10 tap lands and 13 basics if I remember correctly. do you think that ratio is off already?

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

It's true that hitting double white or double black, or double green on turn 3, can be hard, even when running a full set of dual lands, which your not here.

@ ty

T1 Elvish Mystic doesn't help you get to a T2 Brimaz or even T2 Anafenza.  In fact, T1 Mystic means neither of those are possible and, in reality, you'll be casting Anafenza behind the curve and would need to hit your white/caryatids perfectly to even cast Brimaz on curve.  The issue here isn't a matter of mana quantity so much as getting it in the right colors.

I stand by my suggestion of ramp cards. caryatids are better, but mystics will do if you don't have the caryatids.  The abzan midrange deck benefits greatly from ramping into larger threats, and everything OP says is that he like's the removal, likes the sorin, likes the colors, but like I suggested a couple times, the soldiers don't work, and the tribal strategy forced in these colors.  It really just needs to be a standard abzan midrange deck if he wants a removal/board control centric core. This is him needing to decide what direction to take the deck not of the strategy being flawed in and of iteslf.

And btw, Turn 1 mystic can produce turn 2 anafenza if you drop the mystic with a llanowar waste, but this strategy is better if you're running courser of kruphix over brimaz.  I've seen a handful of abzan decks run courser/brimaz/anafenza without too much trouble given the proper manabase though.   Just like in temur, sometimes, i'll hit a turn 2 savage knucks/courser/goblin rabblemaster... it doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it's beautiful.  smile

@ OP again, Like I said, the strongest soldier decks around are the heroic ones, anything else is just forcing a theme to work in places where those aren't the best options.  To put it another way, whites a fairly week color atm out side of a handful of cards, and the insistence of staying in these colors with this strategy, just isn't going to work like it could in other colors.

IMO, either stick with soldiers get into heroic and do that right, or get rid of the soldiers and head into a midrange abzan deck (honestly the way you talk, and the cards you have, talking about removal) you seem like you want the midrange abzan more, but you're stuck on making soldiers work.

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

It's possible to hit the T2 Anafenza off Mystic, but that's requiring a perfect sequence of cards (which is not the most common thing, sure it's great when it works, but the 9/10 games when it stutters won't be any fun).  Nevermind that Mystic doesn't help get to Brimaz ahead of schedule.  If you want/need any ramping, Caryatid is pretty much the only option that makes any sense.

I think it falls down to what Piffguru wants to do.  If he's looking for a home brew rogue deck that he can be proud of when he wins games (but that will likely fold to more polished decks), then he should stick with the soldiers and go for it.  If he's trying to win FNM, then he might as well just go the Abzan midrange deck (for which there are tons of builds to net-deck).

Re: [Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers

tywoo gets it..

I could easily just net-deck and get a winning deck but then whats the point of even coming here to discuss brewing.. Im probably not going to any grand prix's anytime soon and I only attend FNM once in a while. So yea sticking with soldiers theme for now.

Also came to the same conclusion about the caryatid's but currently have only 1 and I feel like it would be lackluster in actuality since it can be destroyed by anger of the gods and a few other things so I weary to go out and get more caryatids.. So ramping I think is off the table for this deck for right now I believe. My main creatures are 3 mana so it isnt a huge necessity to ramp.. and if I can keep the captain alive to drop other soldiers then that is just as effective as ramping anyway.. if anything more effective in some ways.

It all comes down to the instant/enchantments/sorceries at this point I think. its either get haste to drop and immediately attack with captain, or have control to remove his threats.. or have counters to stop the direct removal.. or instants like gods willing to stop direct removal. since Im not doing blue or red currently, I ended up with more of the control type cards. Also Im favoring the commands and charms since they give me more options.. Love the idea of using dromoka's command on a fabled hero to buff by 2 making it a 4/4 doublestrike and forcing a fight although the doublestrike wouldnt take effect in the fight, I still like the idea.

But thank you for the feedback.. its better than just talking it out to myself lol.

Last edited by Piffguru (2015-04-23 04:09:17)