Topic: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

So here's the third, and last, deck for the time being

http://deckbox.org/sets/234844

I'm trying to figure out some good maneuvers using Selesnya, populate, and token building - but among the three this one is still very much a work in progess.

I'm open to thoughts as I'm not very familiar with token generating in this context.

Some basic thoughts about the combos the deck works around:

Obviously this is about some MAJOR token generating. But to get there, you need a bit of ramping via Arbor Elf and Avacyn's Pilgrim. These help you move to the costs to generate the tokens.

Almost all tokens generated are soldiers (as you'll note) with them coming from Captain of the Watch and Captain's Call. These then pair with Parallel Lives and Growing Ranks to help balloon the number of tokens. Pair that with the populate mechanic present in Rootbound Defenses, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, and Wayfaring Temple. Since almost everything is a solider, they get bonuses from both Intangible Virtue and Captain of the Watch.

If you need flyers, not a problem Angel of Serenity provides a nice blocker butMoonsilver Spear can be equipped onto any token to provide angel tokens. Further, Requiem Angel offers spirit tokens for every non-spirit that dies (which is pretty much everything in the deck). They'll think twice about that board clear if she's on the battlefield, as you would then just have a fleet of spirit tokens.

Need a big creature? They come in several forms via Crusader of Odric (also a soldier so he'll get vigilance) and Wayfaring Temple which both grow with each added token entering the battlefield.

Removal comes in the form of Oblivion Ring, Selesnya Charm, and Angel of Serenity.

Additional draws come from Mentor of the Meek being triggered by pretty much every token that comes into play. At some point you would likely be using more mana drawing than playing more creatures.

Bombs? Sure, why not. Ajani, Caller of the Pride could dump a TON of tokens on the battlefield at once. Activating Grove of the Guardian will give you some major hitters with those 8/8 tokens (that will double with Parallel Lives and you can happily populate). Lastly, Seance lets you make a token of any of the creatures that die which might go away, but if you populate that token, the populated version does NOT go away. Nor would tokens generated as a product of it coming in, i.e. Captain of the Watch.

Anyway, clearly there's a LOT of pieces moving here and I think the deck will be quite flexible, but having not played tokens in standard constructed I'm definitely open to suggestions. To some degree I could see where I can ween this deck down a bit to make it more focused.

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

Having seen how the populate mechanic works and the value of the 1/1 flying token, I've made some edits to the deck taking it away from soldiers and moving to spirits.  There are still a variety of other options for tokens with Call of the Conclave, Grove of the Guardian, and Garruk, Primal Hunter.

But I'm concerned with it sitting at 65 cards.  What should go here?

That aside, I'm actually thinking Curse of Exhaustion would be great to make its way into the maindeck as it would really help all the instances of populate to overwhelm the enemy (and who runs enchantment removal these days anyway?).

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Having seen how the populate mechanic works and the value of the 1/1 flying token, I've made some edits to the deck taking it away from soldiers and moving to spirits.  There are still a variety of other options for tokens with Call of the Conclave, Grove of the Guardian, and Garruk, Primal Hunter.

But I'm concerned with it sitting at 65 cards.  What should go here?

That aside, I'm actually thinking Curse of Exhaustion would be great to make its way into the maindeck as it would really help all the instances of populate to overwhelm the enemy (and who runs enchantment removal these days anyway?).

I realize there are likely strong opinions about flat-60 versus any other number, but I would say to go ahead and test at 65.  You can always make changes if it is not working the way you'd like it to.

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Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

Well you know what I'll say first so I'll skip that part and get right into what I'd add/cut

First you need to decide if you want to go the Thalia route or not, meaning if you want to use creatures that have ETB effects/death effects and not use non-creature spells, I always try to go this route cause I like to mess with people tongue it probably won't work as well with Golgari becoming so popular but you never know.

If you want to go the other route you should cut Seller of Songbirds and sideboard Loxodon Smiter, I don't really understand the inclusion in maindeck in the first place, it doesn't really fit in well, but it's beautiful in any sideboard. Then cut the Call of the Conclave, In my opinion a 2/2 Vigilant knight is better and having options makes it better for sure in my opinion.

Finally, I'd add black for some really cool stuff, especially Lingering Souls, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and with the shocklands being back tri-color is actually plausible, however since everyone and their mother is clamoring to use golgari it's probably not worth the investment for the mana base sad oh well what's a person to do?

Am I the only one who thinks Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is kinda crappy? I'd much rather pay 1 extra mana to be able to populate more than once per turn, maybe this is from too much of an EDH point of view but I'd happily pay 1 extra not to tap and his other ability is cool but doesn't seem game-breaking in constructed by any means.

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

Thanks for the input... it's a meeting of the moderators in here wink.

The rationale for Seller of Songbirds is to provide more 1/1 flying tokens and a chump blocker.  Perhaps not the best option, but it certainly doesn't hurt the budget (I already have four of them smile ).  But I could definitely see where they could give way to 2x more Doomed Traveler.  That would net me -2 cards.  Potentially a good call.

I could also see siding the smiter, but man, even without fitting the scheme, a 4/4 that can't be countered for three that is free if they make you discard?  I mean c'mon.  That thing seems like it should be in ANY green/white deck, regardless.  If nothing else it demands attention.

You suggested cutting Call of the Conclave in place of a 2/2 vigilant knight.  Is he a token?  Which knight are you referring to?  I'm definitely on board for vigilance.  But I'm hesitant to drop them because Electrickery, Izzet Staticaster or Detention Sphere become complete board wipes if all I have are spirit tokens.  At least the centaurs provide another type of token to at least partially cover my ass.  I'm thinking even Mayor of Avabruck could be useful to pump up my normal humans and otherwise plop out some wolf tokens.  But it's just a thought.

For the splashing black, I really think that strategy will be much more viable when Orzhov and Gatecrash hit.  Also, I'm not looking to break the bank here picking up Sorin or 4x Lingering Souls.

Personally, I see Trostani being weaker than Jarad and Rakdos, but not any worse than Isperia or Niv 2.0.  You spend three and can create another creature in their end step and also gain life for each creature that enters the battlefield?  I certainly wouldn't complain about that.

Definitely some good ideas - too bad the budget has to cut in to the ideal decks.

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

I heard something about a moderator meeting? big_smile

I will say that I actually played with Trostani at the Pre-release, and she was surprisingly powerful.  Not necessarily in the sense that she is going to quickly overwhelm the board with one extra token per turn, but rather she provides a very solid body for blocking larger threats, and that extra life gain adds up VERY quickly, especially if you're getting two-for-ones with things like Seller of Songbirds (That's three mana for a blocker, a flier and three life).  And then, once you get up and running with some bigger guys (Grove of the Guardian, Ajani tokens, etc.), that adds up even more quickly.  Plus, if you're pumping your tokens with something like Intangible Virtue or Phantom General or Collective Blessing, things could quite easily get out of hand quickly. 

As far as the rest of the deck idea goes in general, I think it will probably take some time for the right token strategies to emerge, because I think they'll initially be seen weak because of Detention Sphere, Sever the Bloodlines, Electrickery, etc.  But I do think that it could definitely be a viable deck with the right combination.

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Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

TyWooOneTime wrote:

You suggested cutting Call of the Conclave in place of a 2/2 vigilant knight.  Is he a token?  Which knight are you referring to?

Selesnya Charm as a 4 of and cut the Calls


I'm not saying Trostani's bad, but he seems extremely underwhelming because an uncommon from the same guild is cheaper to cast and has an ability which is even better IMO

And I agree about the smiter being amazing, just look at Wilt-Leaf Liege, however I am not quite sold that it can fit into this deck since you need to be pretty focused in the current meta since Rav's really bringing the power, Delver and Golgari/Jund zombies are going to be everywhere so anything that doesn't work towards the goal is probably not gonna be able to make the cut if you want to play at FNMs, hence why I probably won't be going much.

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

NullParameter wrote:

I heard something about a moderator meeting? big_smile

That is actually hilarious. Never noticed that some of you were actually moderators. *Looks at imsully2* <-- Ninja

NullParameter wrote:

As far as the rest of the deck idea goes in general, I think it will probably take some time for the right token strategies to emerge, because I think they'll initially be seen weak because of Detention Sphere, Sever the Bloodlines, Electrickery, etc.  But I do think that it could definitely be a viable deck with the right combination.

It's a sad truth. Lots of token hate. Not a lot of answers to Detention Sphere and Sever too since its exile, not destroy. Not in Selesnya anyway. Azorius tokens at least have counters like Negate available to side in. Best thing to do is to play lots of different types of tokens like Call of the Conclave, Gather the Townsfolk, Selesnya Charm, and Midnight Haunting. All different types makes it harder to use "same name" effects effectively.

EDIT: Also Garruk Relentless makes wolves which is another type.

Last edited by Sillvva (2012-10-02 02:01:59)

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Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

Sillvva wrote:
NullParameter wrote:

I heard something about a moderator meeting? big_smile

That is actually hilarious. Never noticed that some of you were actually moderators. *Looks at imsully2* <-- Ninja.

Just happened actually

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

Indeed, since proliferate is about to rotate out, Sebi proliferated how many moderators there are.  wink

Why not run BOTH the Charm and Call of the Conclave?  In both cases they're better than just a 1/1 token - and both for two.  Then I'd have knights, centaurs, spirits, and birds - take that detention sphere?  To that end I guess it makes sense to keep the Seller of Songbirds and dump something else... hrm.  So many pieces, so few spots.

I'm mostly planning this as an alternate deck for my girlfriend to take to FNMs when she doesn't want to play her G/W angels.

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Why not run BOTH the Charm and Call of the Conclave?  In both cases they're better than just a 1/1 token - and both for two.  Then I'd have knights, centaurs, spirits, and birds - take that detention sphere?  To that end I guess it makes sense to keep the Seller of Songbirds and dump something else... hrm.  So many pieces, so few spots.

I like that idea, it could work out pretty well especially with intangible virtue being somewhat redundant with the knight token

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

I think it would be interesting to see her take it to FNM and beat you with it tongue

EDIT: imsully2 <--- Ninja'd again

Last edited by Sillvva (2012-10-02 02:40:13)

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Re: Three of Three - ... Like Rabbits

So here's a second take on the idea now that I've seen how nasty Growing Ranks can be in actual gameplay.

http://deckbox.org/sets/239316

Now the tokens aren't tied to a single type, I'm dropping centaurs, knights, spirits, wurms, and beasts.  I have almost everything here and hope to start playtesting soon.  I'm open to thoughts on this newer version, but I'll start playtesting it soon and will let you guys know how it works.