Topic: Why are these cards good?

Hello everyone

I've been playing semi competitively for about 2 years now in standard and have a pretty form grasp of why cards are considered good (staples) in multiple formats.... But i'm no patrick Chapin or Brian Kibler.

So I'd like to know from everyone why the following cards are good/sought after because frankly I don't get it:
(BTW, Im hoping for answers besides 'they are staples')

Horizon Canopy
Rishadan Port
Life and loom (I don't truly understand the dredge mechanic so this may be an easy one)
Daybreak Coronet
Dark Confidant (to me because depending on the deck, the life loss seems really bad esp in life losing formats ie modern and Legacy)

Please forgive my spelling smile

Thanks everyone! I hope to interact and elevate my knowledge

Re: Why are these cards good?

This is to the best of my knowledge so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rishadan Port can just lock out a land so that the other player can't use it. 

Life and Loom for Dredge is basically like drawing 3 cards instead of 1 card since you're playing out of your graveyard. 

The card advantage from Dark Confidant almost always outweighs the damage you will take.

Daybreak Coronet needs to be in an aura deck.  But it is probably the best card in an Aura deck.  Not the most useful deck outside of an aura one.

Horizon Canopy is just a solid land.  Now, if you're asking why it's so expensive, it's because Reid Duke played it in his GW Aura modern deck that won at Worlds.

Re: Why are these cards good?

Also, if you look at the the decklists that play dark confidant you have a top CMC of like 4 in the deck and only a few of those.  Most are 1-2-3 and provide substantial value when they hit the board.

Re: Why are these cards good?

WuTrain wrote:

This is to the best of my knowledge so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Horizon Canopy is just a solid land.  Now, if you're asking why it's so expensive, it's because Reid Duke played it in his GW Aura modern deck that won at Worlds.

BOOOOOOOO! This is why more magic players need to think for themselves, or just have the confidence to try things out despite failure.... SADFACE

Re: Why are these cards good?

I never got that argument.

There's a reason why people use wheels.  We've improved on the design a little, but in general it's a round support with an axle. 

Should we not use wheels too, because they're not original?  Does it make you feel bad when you use a wheel because you didn't think of it first?  I can spend time trying to put together a better wheel, but really I'm going to save myself a lot of time, by just using the wheels provided and put them to the best use possible.

Re: Why are these cards good?

Yeah it kinda sucks, but it's natural to try to base things off of proven winning formulas.  If you take a look at his deck, all those cards jumped in price such as keen sense.  That thing went from 50 cents to over 3 bucks over night.

Re: Why are these cards good?

Dakkon4444 wrote:

Hello everyone

I've been playing semi competitively for about 2 years now in standard and have a pretty form grasp of why cards are considered good (staples) in multiple formats.... But i'm no patrick Chapin or Brian Kibler.

So I'd like to know from everyone why the following cards are good/sought after because frankly I don't get it:
(BTW, Im hoping for answers besides 'they are staples')

Horizon Canopy
Rishadan Port
Life and loom (I don't truly understand the dredge mechanic so this may be an easy one)
Daybreak Coronet
Dark Confidant (to me because depending on the deck, the life loss seems really bad esp in life losing formats ie modern and Legacy)

Please forgive my spelling smile

Thanks everyone! I hope to interact and elevate my knowledge

Horizon Canopy - It's a dual land, which is always in demand, but the fact that it "cycles" (i.e. draws you a card in exchange for itself) is very powerful. When you need a land in the early game, that's what it is; when you top-deck it later in the game or don't need any more lands, you get an extra card draw. The fact that white and green don't get very many other options for card draw means that this card allows WG decks to have a bit more reach than they would otherwise.

Rishadan Port - There's a reason you see this card played primarily in decks that only need 1 or 2 lands in play, and often in combination with Wasteland (particularly Goblins). Being able to lock down your opponent's lands is a huge tempo play, especially in Legacy where your opponent may only need a few lands in play. In formats where the difference between one land and two lands is large, Port makes a really big difference.

Life from the Loam - Any deck that either wants spare cards in hand (Seismic Assault), wants cards in the Graveyard (Re-animator, Gifts, etc)., or any combination of the two gets a huge boost from this card. You can lock your opponent out with Raven's Crime and other spells with retrace, continually destroy lands with Tectonic Edge while invalidating your opponent's land destruction back, and all kinds of crazy useful things.

Dark Confidant - Drawing two cards every turn while your opponent draws one is borderline cheating. It attacks for two, and if your deck only has spells with casting cost 1 or 2, the life loss is negligible compared to the huge advantage you gain.

Daybreak Coronet - By far the best Aura to slap on your hexproof creature, and the GW Auras deck is really popular right now thanks to Reid Duke's performance at Worlds. Also hasn't been reprinted and it was originally in a very under-drafted set.

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Re: Why are these cards good?

elpablo wrote:

I never got that argument.

There's a reason why people use wheels.  We've improved on the design a little, but in general it's a round support with an axle. 

Should we not use wheels too, because they're not original?  Does it make you feel bad when you use a wheel because you didn't think of it first?  I can spend time trying to put together a better wheel, but really I'm going to save myself a lot of time, by just using the wheels provided and put them to the best use possible.

We are talking about magic the gathering, not structural engineering. Case in point: NO one played squadron hawk. Then overnight it became a thing? how long was that combo out there while everyone called the card weak, trash, Jank, etc. Again we can argue about the wheel all we want but my counter to this is that trial and error came into play and the 3.14 equation became the wheel.

Reid Duke played the card one weekend and without understanding the science or the depth of using it EVERYONE flocked like sheep. We all know the phenom known as Reid duke is good. However, if you are saying that we shouldn't question (think for ourselves) you are off base IMO. Explain to me why Horizon Canopy is good (Thank you PhyrexianLibrarian).

And to answer your wheel question, I do question it. There's always a way to improve or make better or completely do away with a theory or way of life. There's a reason why people walk too, use airplanes, submarines, Hot air balloons, and pogo sticks.

Re: Why are these cards good?

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:
Dakkon4444 wrote:

Hello everyone

I've been playing semi competitively for about 2 years now in standard and have a pretty form grasp of why cards are considered good (staples) in multiple formats.... But i'm no patrick Chapin or Brian Kibler.

So I'd like to know from everyone why the following cards are good/sought after because frankly I don't get it:
(BTW, Im hoping for answers besides 'they are staples')

Horizon Canopy
Rishadan Port
Life and loom (I don't truly understand the dredge mechanic so this may be an easy one)
Daybreak Coronet
Dark Confidant (to me because depending on the deck, the life loss seems really bad esp in life losing formats ie modern and Legacy)

Please forgive my spelling smile

Thanks everyone! I hope to interact and elevate my knowledge

Horizon Canopy - It's a dual land, which is always in demand, but the fact that it "cycles" (i.e. draws you a card in exchange for itself) is very powerful. When you need a land in the early game, that's what it is; when you top-deck it later in the game or don't need any more lands, you get an extra card draw. The fact that white and green don't get very many other options for card draw means that this card allows WG decks to have a bit more reach than they would otherwise.

Rishadan Port - There's a reason you see this card played primarily in decks that only need 1 or 2 lands in play, and often in combination with Wasteland (particularly Goblins). Being able to lock down your opponent's lands is a huge tempo play, especially in Legacy where your opponent may only need a few lands in play. In formats where the difference between one land and two lands is large, Port makes a really big difference.

Life from the Loam - Any deck that either wants spare cards in hand (Seismic Assault), wants cards in the Graveyard (Re-animator, Gifts, etc)., or any combination of the two gets a huge boost from this card. You can lock your opponent out with Raven's Crime and other spells with retrace, continually destroy lands with Tectonic Edge while invalidating your opponent's land destruction back, and all kinds of crazy useful things.

Dark Confidant - Drawing two cards every turn while your opponent draws one is borderline cheating. It attacks for two, and if your deck only has spells with casting cost 1 or 2, the life loss is negligible compared to the huge advantage you gain.

Daybreak Coronet - By far the best Aura to slap on your hexproof creature, and the GW Auras deck is really popular right now thanks to Reid Duke's performance at Worlds. Also hasn't been reprinted and it was originally in a very under-drafted set.

Very insightful! Maybe because my playstyle doesnt lend itself to play these cards, but your explanation helps alot. Thank you your for knowledge and wisdom!!

Last edited by Dakkon4444 (2013-09-16 20:29:43)

Re: Why are these cards good?

Understanding why a card is good and it's probably good to understand why the cards are in the deck you're playing rather than just playing them (although, experience is a good teacher). But your comment Poo Poo'd on everyone because they got on board with a concept after it was popularized by a professional player isn't right either.

You're assuming that people didn't understand or try it before, but sometimes cards don't work out because of an unfriendly meta or the deck was constructed poorly.  I used the wheel analogy because it fits.  We all use wheels we know how good they are. We don't need to necessarily question why they're good.

If you take the analogy a little further then, Reid Duke would be to magic, what a professional race car driver is to his car and it's wheels.  The drivers don't always work on the cars that much, sure they have some basic understanding of the mechanics, but most of them probably couldn't design a race car.  A few can, maybe, who knows.  They are, however, fantastic drivers, and they understand how to take a great car and drive it to the top.  Good magic players can basically do the same thing, with a well built deck.  It's unfair to look down your nose, or criticize someone else because they pilot a deck developed by someone else.  They still have to play it right, understand how it handles, and "put it through the curves".

I've got a pretty busy life, I'm sure most people do.  So, I'm only an FNM warrior most of the time, and certainly not a professional, but I do frequently netdeck (tweak here or there for the local meta).  I don't have the time to test and develop a deck from scratch like Woo or some of these other guys.  They do, so kudos to them.  Doesn't mean I don't know how to play well or deserve to play less than anyone else because I didn't show up with my "own deck".

Re: Why are these cards good?

Elpablo I completely agree with you on what you are saying, but my baseline point was that in 1 weekend a single card went from being 'Meh' to OMG ITS THE GREATEST EVER.... without a single person playing it but Reid Duke.

Drivers may not work on their cars that much, but they know car mechanics enough to know when a tire has too much wear, when their fuel/air mixture isn't providing enough combustion, and when the downforce angle in each turn needs adjustment. You would never hear them say 'Earnhardt did it, so i do it too" (they would be dead or badly injured for not wearing their seatbelt). Most drivers know their limits which is why they do or don't do things behind the wheel. The process of this takes failing and the understanding of a cars mechanics so they can understand how not to crash, where to shave seconds, where to drive fast and take chances while conserving fuel.

Reid Duke (the driver) understands that adding a fuel enhancer (horizon canopy) works (for him).  I guarantee you. NO ONE used the card in that deck type. Because of the life loss. Now the card draw outweighs the life loss? I doubt it. Many top players can tell you and explain why something works and does not. Even when the answer is clear, they research so that they can explain themselves fully not "well Reid Duke did it, it must be good." Did you ever think he used the canopy because going against a line of thinking was the advantage?

Again, my argument is that there's not a full understanding of the process. It is what it is, but as I said its sad, not something I condemn people for. As an FNM warrior myself I can tell you that I 100% agree with your time argument. However, I am going to say you are smart enough to pick up Woo's deck and tell me why things do and don't work, why you made changes, and why these changes lead you to the checkered flag at any FNM. Most people can not. In the end this is where I'm coming from.

Re: Why are these cards good?

elpablo wrote:

Also, if you look at the the decklists that play dark confidant you have a top CMC of like 4 in the deck and only a few of those.  Most are 1-2-3 and provide substantial value when they hit the board.

Do you think that the confidant from Gatecrash will see any type of play? Not the Duskmantle

Re: Why are these cards good?

The cards in the Auras decks spiked up first about a year ago during the last Modern season when the Auras deck made its debut as a thing.  It's just had a resurgence due to its recent showing.

Re: Why are these cards good?

Dakkon4444 wrote:
elpablo wrote:

Also, if you look at the the decklists that play dark confidant you have a top CMC of like 4 in the deck and only a few of those.  Most are 1-2-3 and provide substantial value when they hit the board.

Do you think that the confidant from Gatecrash will see any type of play? Not the Duskmantle


You're talking about blood Scrivener?  You know it looked good.  It's cheap draws cards, but it just didn't have what it took.  I tried to make it work a little when sire of insanity was a little more popular.  The fact that it requires you to have an empty hand before you can benefit from it is a major downside.  It's just too narrow.

Re: Why are these cards good?

Dakkon4444 wrote:

Elpablo I completely agree with you on what you are saying, but my baseline point was that in 1 weekend a single card went from being 'Meh' to OMG ITS THE GREATEST EVER.... without a single person playing it but Reid Duke.

Drivers may not work on their cars that much, but they know car mechanics enough to know when a tire has too much wear, when their fuel/air mixture isn't providing enough combustion, and when the downforce angle in each turn needs adjustment. You would never hear them say 'Earnhardt did it, so i do it too" (they would be dead or badly injured for not wearing their seatbelt). Most drivers know their limits which is why they do or don't do things behind the wheel. The process of this takes failing and the understanding of a cars mechanics so they can understand how not to crash, where to shave seconds, where to drive fast and take chances while conserving fuel.

Reid Duke (the driver) understands that adding a fuel enhancer (horizon canopy) works (for him).  I guarantee you. NO ONE used the card in that deck type. Because of the life loss. Now the card draw outweighs the life loss? I doubt it. Many top players can tell you and explain why something works and does not. Even when the answer is clear, they research so that they can explain themselves fully not "well Reid Duke did it, it must be good." Did you ever think he used the canopy because going against a line of thinking was the advantage?

Again, my argument is that there's not a full understanding of the process. It is what it is, but as I said its sad, not something I condemn people for. As an FNM warrior myself I can tell you that I 100% agree with your time argument. However, I am going to say you are smart enough to pick up Woo's deck and tell me why things do and don't work, why you made changes, and why these changes lead you to the checkered flag at any FNM. Most people can not. In the end this is where I'm coming from.

Fair enough, I always think it deserves a discussion when someone says "boo" to copying a professional players behavior.  It's true some people will follow blindly, but in general I try to give people more credit than that. Card values do go up and down based on what's popular.  That's true of anything though.

I've been playing a long time so i hope I have a grasp on the game by this point, but I've seen a lot of new players recently.  I feel like I'm doing a lot of teaching and explaining lately.