Topic: New R/W deck needs help!

Hello there MTG community. I've recently started playing and I constructed a deck I'm not sure is even halfway decent. Sooo here it is... http://deckbox.org/sets/553108

Point is to get as much out and moving as quickly as possible to lower opponents life as quickly as possible. Need suggestions on who to take out and who to add. If you could suggest who to take out and add based on my current limited inventory if possible to keep cost down. Thanks!

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

Welcome,

What level of competition will this deck be seeing?  Specifically, do you intend to take this to your local FNM or is this meant for casual play amongst a group of friends?

The reason I'm asking is because the types of cards and combinations you can get away with in casual play is quite different than in a more competitive environment like an FNM.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

I'd like to play FNM as soon as possible. But if also like to stay within my cards if possible. Let me know if that just isn't though.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

Okay.  So a few suggestions.

1) Before you go to PLAY in your local FNM, go there to scout things out.  If you have more than one LGS, scout around and see where the most welcoming environment is.  Some FNMs are SUPER competitive and will be populated with tons of Tier 1 decks that, well, to be honest, you need either a really polished home-brew or another tier 1 deck to even win any games.  Others are filled mostly with players who are working within their budgets, home-brewing and such, and really who are just about having a good time.  This is the type of environment to aim for, as a newer player you're likely going to lose quite a bit to get started but winning a few games here or there can make it worthwhile (against the super competitive folks, well, it's just not going to happen and you might get turned off from the game).

2) You're sitting on a single Archangel of Thune.  This is a great card, hence why it's sitting at almost $20, but as an individual card, it really won't do much.  It's powerful, but it's entirely possible that you can come up with another build and then use the Archangel as trade bait to get the majority of the other cards you need for the build.  So keep that in mind rather than just limiting yourself to the cards you currently have.

3) Feel free to tinker around with builds and playtest before you buy the cards.  You can do this by proxying cards.  The easiest way to do this (without ruining any cards) is to use card sleeves (which you'll likely want at some point anyway).  This can be achieved by simply taking scrap paper, writing down what the card is supposed to be, and slipping that paper into the card sleeve in front of just whatever card you want to put in there.  So for example, let's say you want to test with Garruk, Caller of Beasts in your build but don't want to drop the $20 per to pick them up.  Just build as much of the deck as you can and then put in some Swamps with the paper in front to playtest.  This way you can see about building a deck that fits your strategy and that you enjoy before you drop the cash.

4) Ask people for their input and don't be afraid to net-deck to some degree.  We'll give you as much guidance on here as possible, but others in your local meta will be more familiar with what you're likely going to run into.  Further, don't be afraid to look at what the pros are playing.  The argument here is simple, they've put in the time, money, and expertise to build these decks and see how they perform.  You don't necessarily have to take their builds card-for-card, but it's really pointless to reinvent the wheel if someone else has already done the leg-work to optimize the deck for you.

5) As for the specifics of deckbuilding, you've actually managed to put more than enough land in the deck (which is a good thing, as most people will typically short the lands in the deck), but you want to build decks that emphasize consistency.  You can get a deck to perform consistently by adopting a single strategy and sticking to it and then using multiples of the cards for the strategy, as opposed to having 1-off cards that you're unlikely to draw game-after-game.  So, for instance, you have 1x Soldier of the Pantheon, but that means you have a relatively low chance of drawing it in each game... but if you were to have 4x of them, your odds are obviously better.  Cards that are essential to your strategy should be 4x or 3x at the least, and cards that aren't necessary by any means but would certainly help, those are 1x or 2x and only if you have extra room.

So... to your specific deck...

I would imagine your best bet will be to build a Boros Heroic Deck as it will likely fit in your budget (or be pretty cheap to piece together) and it should have at least some success.  To this end, you'll be building in a bunch of aggressive creatures, mostly in white, and some triggers to help you set off Heroic, pumping your guys and such.

So, the cards to focus on:

Soldier of the Pantheon - he's just good, so as many as you can get is a plus

Akroan Crusader - for heroic, he's going to make more guys... that's a plus

Precinct Captain - he's a solid 2/2 with first strike (all of which is good), but he can also make more guys for ya if he does unblocked

Phalanx Leader - this guy is easily the BEST heroic trigger in your colors - he will give you an Archangel of Thune pump effect every time you target him

Anax and Cymede - another solid heroic target for you to aim for - they'll pump your guys AND give them trample... nevermind that a 3/2 first strike is a brick wall against a LOT of opposing creatures

Spear of Heliod - this is a solid option for pumping your guys - it gives you a source of spot removal while you're at it.  If you're in a pinch, you can get Path of Bravery and use it but keep in mind that some games you won't be able to have your life high enough to actually get the boost.

Chained to the Rocks - this is easily the best removal option available in the boros colors... if you can manage 4x of them that is a plus

Assemble the Legion - this will likely be a SB card for you, but you could also just as easily run 2x in the mainboard as this is among the best cards in the format in terms of creating inevitability.  Simply put, without enchantment removal (which a lot of decks don't really run), it will just win games.

You're already sitting on a lot of the major stuff you're after in here, namely: Firefist Striker, Imposing Sovereign, Wojek Halberdiers, Daring Skyjek, Fabled Hero - these are all solid options to fill in the build.

As for heroic triggers, you will want to run Gods Willing, Dragon Mantle, Madcap Skills, Coordinated Assault, Titan's Strength, and things of that nature.

So anyway, I hope some of this info helps... it's a bit of a learning curve and if need be I can give you a rough build with more specific counts here in a few days.  Good luck and remember that the most important part is to HAVE FUN!  The rest isn't really all that important.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

Thank you so much for the info, much appreciated. I do plan on going to a FNM at a local store this Friday but didn't plan on playing at it anyway. Okay so I've improved this a lot i think, although i will have to spend at least 40$ to make it how it is. http://deckbox.org/sets/553108.

Okay, so i got rid of the Archangel of Thune, i got lucky and drew her foiled in a booster pack lol, and i really dont want to spend abouther 20$ to get anouther one to make it worth playing her. So I can remove 4x Boros Charm and get 4x of Phalanx Leader, Banisher Priest, Fabled Hero, and Precinct Captain. Or keep it how it is. Or get rid of 4x Boros Charm for more land. Also if its good the way it is do i have too many Plains? too many Mountains? I guess i could add some shock lands (witch are very pricey) or Gates but i would like input on that aspect of deck building.

Would also like to know more about what this deck would need more of in the SB...

Last edited by Dorynnos (2013-12-10 05:39:02)

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

So a few things. 

First, if your Archangel is foil, it's going to be worth more than just $20, actually settling more into the $35-40 range (enough to likely build the deck without having to pay for anything if that's how you want to run it).

Second, you REALLY want to get down as close to 60 cards as possible.  A quick glance at the deck reveals a few pieces you probably don't want/need.  Specifically, Wojek Halberdiers can easily be removed and Imposing Sovereign can probably be moved to the SB in the event you need to keep a tempo advantage.  Frontline Medic looks good on paper, but in reality, by the time it'd really do much, you're going to want to do other things.  Further, you can get the indestructible effect from Boros Charm so there's no need for the Medic.  Then I would say to move Gift of Orzhova to the SB (in the event you're having to race the opponent) as it's pretty redundant when you consider the creatures you're enchanting are likely targets for removal anyway.  I'd say to move one Assemble to the SB and keep only one mainboard just to catch people off guard.  Lastly, if you drop one land, taking your count down to 23, you should be fine, given that your curve really tops out at three.

Third, building a SB really depends on the local meta.  The plan is to include specific cards that will augment various match-ups into your favor - so if everyone is running mono-black devotion, you put a few cards in the SB that will specifically address THAT match-up to deal with Desecration Demon, Pack Rat, and Gray Merchant.  The same can be said for mono-blue, esper control, and all the others... so to that end, it'll be more of a learn and see approach on the SB.

Fourth, I know the shocks are expensive, which is why R/W is actually a good color pairing for you at the moment as you already will have access to Temple of Triumph.  I would normally suggest getting a playset of Sacred Foundry, especially given that they will likely hold their value even post rotation, but if you don't want to drop almost $40 in four cards, the temples provide a decent alternative for the time being (although running playsets of both is the best choice if possible).  Then, you can actually use the hand simulator/statistics feature on Deckbox to get a clearer sense of how your land spread should be, just set the target number to 23 and it will give you an idea of how many red vs white symbols you need.  My assumption, based on the look of the build, is that you'll want to go with more white than red.

A few other cards to consider: Hammer of Purphoros, Heliod, God of the Sun, Celestial Flare, Brave the Elements... things of that nature.

Anywhom, like I said, it's probably best to go scout things out and see what you're up against before you go dropping cash into a deck that might not make it anywhere.  Don't be afraid to proxy up the deck in the way I described and take that with you - maybe you'll be able to play some casual games and people there can give you some pointers for what is and is not a good choice given the local meta.

Good luck!

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

Ok so I think I've got the majority of the changes I like. Won't be able to test it till tonight but I can't decide what to take out for those cards you suggested. I want Hammer Purphoros but should I get rid of the spear for the hammer? Otherwise I think I'm ok. I think I have enough possible heroic  triggers to make this happen. What do you think? http://deckbox.org/sets/553108

Last edited by Dorynnos (2013-12-10 14:21:53)

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

I think you're short on Heroic triggers, as I'm only counting 8 (and that's if you use Boros Charm only to provide double-strike).  I would look at adding something like Coordinated Assault or Titan's Strength to provide that added trick.  Keep in mind that Titan's Strength on a Phalanx Leader in combat will boost the leader to a 5/3 while also scrying one and pumping your whole team... this is the idea of the deck, as it can take an otherwise unassuming set of guys and make them REALLY threatening (especially if you've pumped a few Akroan Crusader or Precinct Captain tokens out.

As for the hammer/spear trade off neither is really necessary but either will give you a pretty solid advantage.  The spear will pump everything regardless, turning that 1/1 Akroan Crusader into a meaningful threat; but, the hammer has the potential to help in longer games and will at least make something of late game land draws.  I really think you should just playtest to see which works out best for you.

At this point it's really just a matter of playtesting, then tinkering, then playtesting, then tinkering.  I wish I could give you a more solid set of directions from here, but, having never played the deck, I really couldn't tell ya.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

Who do I take out for more heroic triggers?

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

My best guess for the moment would be the Banisher Priests, two Boros Charms and Hammer of Purphoros or Spear of Heliod.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

How's this? http://deckbox.org/sets/553108. So I'm not sure if 3 Titan's Strength is to many. Maybe 3  Boros Charm?

Also I played one match with this deck so far. I didn't get to finish the match and I won't be able to play more till later tonight. But the main thing I noticed was that I drew 1 mountain and rest plains maybe 6ish? Just thought it was too many. Maybe it was a one time thing, or maybe I just got unlucky.

Re: New R/W deck needs help!

It looks solid enough.  Again, you'll just have to play it to see how it goes.  I would suggest dropping the Plains count to 12 and toss in another 3 Mountains, that should smooth out the mana issues while still ensuring that you can hit your double white stuff on curve.