Topic: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

When I first saw the explosive potential of Waste Not in my Nekusar EDH, I knew that I wanted to build a deck that could really harness that power. I toyed for a while with making a comeback in Standard, but decided that Modern is really my home, and so I cruised around the interwebs for a while, looking for a good idea. That's when I stumbled across 8 Rack. I noticed that the top-tier lists tended to run no more than two Waste Nots, but I want to explore the possibilities a bit more. Here's the list I've come up with so far:

Lands:
-12 Swamp
-2 Dakmor Salvage
-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-4 Buried Ruin

Sorceries:
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Wrench Mind
-4 Raven's Crime

Instants:
-3 Victim of Night

Artifacts:
-4 The Rack
-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments:
-4 Shrieking Affliction
-3 Waste Not

Planeswalkers:
-4 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
-No freakin' clue.

I realize that the sideboard is highly tuned to each specific meta, but I'm wondering if there's a shell I can work with to start, so I can jump right in and start playing without having to reconnoiter my local shop for too long. Also, I'm curious as to what the community here has to say about some of the other popular options for this deck, like Pack Rat, Blackmail, Funeral Charm, man-lands, etc.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

Lands:
-12 Swamp
-2 Dakmor Salvage
-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-4 Buried Ruin

Sorceries:
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Wrench Mind
-4 Raven's Crime

Instants:
-3 Victim of Night

Artifacts:
-4 The Rack
-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments:
-4 Shrieking Affliction
-3 Waste Not

Planeswalkers:
-4 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
-No freakin' clue.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

Lands:
-12 Swamp
-2 Dakmor Salvage
-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-4 Buried Ruin

Sorceries:
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Wrench Mind
-4 Raven's Crime

Instants:
-3 Victim of Night

Artifacts:
-4 The Rack
-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments:
-4 Shrieking Affliction
-3 Waste Not

Planeswalkers:
-4 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
-No freakin' clue.

I've played almost this exact same list and I can attest that it is solid. I will be testing out a BR Rack build tomorrow for funsies.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:
sk00gle wrote:

Lands:
-12 Swamp
-2 Dakmor Salvage
-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-4 Buried Ruin

Sorceries:
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Wrench Mind
-4 Raven's Crime

Instants:
-3 Victim of Night

Artifacts:
-4 The Rack
-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments:
-4 Shrieking Affliction
-3 Waste Not

Planeswalkers:
-4 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
-No freakin' clue.

I've played almost this exact same list and I can attest that it is solid. I will be testing out a BR Rack build tomorrow for funsies.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on cards such as Pack Rat, Funeral Charm, Blackmail, Mutavault, and Blinkmoth Nexus. I feel like I should be running some sort of man-land, but at the same time, I feel like Buried Ruin is an adequate choice for that slot, as it gives my Ensnaring Bridges  and The Racks some resilience.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Jay4prez wrote:
sk00gle wrote:

Lands:
-12 Swamp
-2 Dakmor Salvage
-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-4 Buried Ruin

Sorceries:
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Wrench Mind
-4 Raven's Crime

Instants:
-3 Victim of Night

Artifacts:
-4 The Rack
-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Enchantments:
-4 Shrieking Affliction
-3 Waste Not

Planeswalkers:
-4 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
-No freakin' clue.

Thanks. I only figured out how to do the card-tagging thing just now.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

I can't really speak to this too much, but I know that if you go B/R Waste Not, Burning Inquiry is just a great time.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

I'm curious what your thoughts are on cards such as Pack Rat, Funeral Charm, Blackmail, Mutavault, and Blinkmoth Nexus. I feel like I should be running some sort of man-land, but at the same time, I feel like Buried Ruin is an adequate choice for that slot, as it gives my Ensnaring Bridges  and The Racks some resilience.

- Pack Rat is THE best SB card against Pod. Drop that T2 and if they don't have an immediate answer you just win.
- I've played Buried Ruin a bit and it has it's uses. I've really only seen it shine against BG Rock. However, in that matchup it is extremely good.
- Mutavault is pretty good, especially if you're playing Pack Rats. Like you said, having a man land can be quite useful at times. Could be good as a 2-of.
- I don't see any reason to play Blinkmoth Nexus over the other land options.

I don't think there's anything I would take out for Blackmail or Funeral Charm. Raven's Crime beats Blackmail 90% of the time. The second mode of Funeral Charm is situationally useful(Noble Hierarch), but I don't think it's worth dropping the soft-lock Raven's Crime/Dakmor Salvage combo for.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:
sk00gle wrote:

I'm curious what your thoughts are on cards such as Pack Rat, Funeral Charm, Blackmail, Mutavault, and Blinkmoth Nexus. I feel like I should be running some sort of man-land, but at the same time, I feel like Buried Ruin is an adequate choice for that slot, as it gives my Ensnaring Bridges  and The Racks some resilience.

- Pack Rat is THE best SB card against Pod. Drop that T2 and if they don't have an immediate answer you just win.
- I've played Buried Ruin a bit and it has it's uses. I've really only seen it shine against BG Rock. However, in that matchup it is extremely good.
- Mutavault is pretty good, especially if you're playing Pack Rats. Like you said, having a man land can be quite useful at times. Could be good as a 2-of.
- I don't see any reason to play Blinkmoth Nexus over the other land options.

I don't think there's anything I would take out for Blackmail or Funeral Charm. Raven's Crime beats Blackmail 90% of the time. The second mode of Funeral Charm is situationally useful(Noble Hierarch), but I don't think it's worth dropping the soft-lock Raven's Crime/Dakmor Salvage combo for.

The main reason I can think of for Blinkmoth Nexus over Mutavault is that Blinkmoth has evasion; and in addition, Mutavault can't boost a Pack Rat if the Rat isn't in the deck. Also, I'm not familiar with BG Rock, so could you elaborate on that for me?

I definitely agree that dropping the Raven's Crime/Dakmor Salvage lock in the mainboard is a terrible idea. Would it make sense to run one of the other 1-drop discards in the sideboard? It occurs to me that Blackmail can be pretty good against Tron, getting them to discard one of their key lands if I get them down to 3 cards (which shouldn't be too hard).

Last edited by sk00gle (2014-10-10 19:09:07)

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

The main reason I can think of for Blinkmoth Nexus over Mutavault is that Blinkmoth has evasion; and in addition, Mutavault can't boost a Pack Rat if the Rat isn't in the deck.

That would be the one upside, the downside is that it's only 1 damage instead of 2 (or more). If you're playing Pack Rats, which you should be because it's amazing against Pod which is played heavily, Mutavault is the better option imo.

sk00gle wrote:

Also, I'm not familiar with BG Rock, so could you elaborate on that for me?

BG Rock is basically tons of removal and discard (Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Thoughtseize etc) and big annoying creatures (Tarmogoyf, Phyrexian Obliterator, Scavenging Ooze)

In response to your edit, I don't think running any discard spells in the sideboard will make much of a difference. Tron is really easy to interrupt. T1 discard, hitting Expedition Map if you're on the play. T2, Wrench Mind or double discard hitting whatever and they'll have a tough time recovering. Tron is the reason I play 2 Ghost Quarter. If they're on the play and assemble Tron it can be difficult to come back.

Blackmail, as you pointed out, only shines when they already have 3 or fewer cards in hand. Before that it's definitely worse than your other options as it gives them the choice. Giving your opponent the choice is the reason cards like Vexing Devil are bad.

Last edited by Kammikaze (2014-10-10 19:26:48)

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:

That would be the one upside, the downside is that it's only 1 damage instead of 2 (or more). If you're playing Pack Rats, which you should be because it's amazing against Pod which is played heavily, Mutavault is the better option imo.

You definitely raise a valid point in that Mutavault can do more damage than Blinkmoth Nexus, but without Pack Rat, it seems to me that some potential is lost. Based on the initial list I provided, where do you think the best place is to make room for Pack Rat?

Kammikaze wrote:

Tron is the reason I play 2 Ghost Quarter.

Do you then reduce the number of other utility/man lands? Or better yet, do you have a mono-B list that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

where do you think the best place is to make room for Pack Rat?

Pack Rat is 100% a sideboard card. There are plenty of matchups in which it is pretty terrible.

sk00gle wrote:
Kammikaze wrote:

Tron is the reason I play 2 Ghost Quarter.

Do you then reduce the number of other utility/man lands? Or better yet, do you have a mono-B list that you wouldn't mind sharing?

I reduced the number of swamps I was playing to 10. I believe I was playing 3 urborg, 2 dakmor salvage, 2 ghost quarter, 3 buried ruin or something like that. The Mono-B list I was using is almost card-for-card the same as the list you posted.

Last edited by Kammikaze (2014-10-10 19:58:45)

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Hmmm... Definitely some things to consider! Thanks for your input!

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

So it turns out that the Black/Red version isn't very good. At least not the list that I was playing. This is unfortunate, because adding Red gives really good sideboard options over Mono-B, but the maindeck for Mono-B seems quite a bit better.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:

So it turns out that the Black/Red version isn't very good. At least not the list that I was playing. This is unfortunate, because adding Red gives really good sideboard options over Mono-B, but the maindeck for Mono-B seems quite a bit better.

I think another reason to be wary of splashing another color can be found in Blood Moon. There are a ton of decks that use it to deal with Tron, so it's not too uncommon to see. And I would expect it to cause lots of problems for 8 Rack builds that splash another color. One should take that with a grain of salt, however; red does strike me as the safest color in this regard, as Blood Moon doesn't shut down your duals entirely. You still get your red mana.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

sk00gle wrote:

I think another reason to be wary of splashing another color can be found in Blood Moon.

Blood Moon actually did nothing to hurt me. In fact I was running 2 in my own sideboard. The problem that I was running into is the feeling that I need to drop one of the two-drop enchantments T2, which apparently is really important for casting another (or two) discard spells.

That and I played against blue decks. The one game I was able to resolve a Burning Inquiry I wrecked. Every single other time I casted it it got countered, even with a double counter bait before it.

Last edited by Kammikaze (2014-10-13 19:51:03)

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:

That and I played against blue decks.

I find that intriguing, as blue should theoretically be one of your strongest matchups.

Kammikaze wrote:

The problem that I was running into is the feeling that I need to drop one of the two-drop enchantments T2, which apparently is really important for casting another (or two) discard spells.

I'm curious as to why you were running Liliana's Caress in the first place, as it seems to me that there are much stronger options for that slot. I suppose a case can be made in light of Burning Inquiry, but I would probably stick to the mono-B shell and only splash enough red for Lightning Bolt, thereby leaving spaces available for other things.

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

The main reason I splashed red was to try and maximize the effectiveness of Waste Not, which Burning Inquiry does a fine job of. Adding Liliana's Caress further increased the value of discard triggers.

Looking at my list now I was definitely trying to go in two different directions: Hand Control, get their hand down to as few cards as possibile, and Discard Triggers, Burning Inquiry with Waste Not and Liliana's Caress. My guess is that this was the main problem, not necessarily the red splash.

The reason I had problems with blue decks is that, since I was trying to half focus on discard triggers, I was relying somewhat heavily on Burning Inquiry. So when that got countered (despite my best efforts to bait them) I lost quite a bit of steam.

Last edited by Kammikaze (2014-10-14 12:46:47)

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

Kammikaze wrote:

The main reason I splashed red was to try and maximize the effectiveness of Waste Not, which Burning Inquiry does a fine job of. Adding Liliana's Caress further increased the value of discard triggers.

Looking at my list now I was definitely trying to go in two different directions: Hand Control, get their hand down to as few cards as possibile, and Discard Triggers, Burning Inquiry with Waste Not and Liliana's Caress. My guess is that this was the main problem, not necessarily the red splash.

The reason I had problems with blue decks is that, since I was trying to half focus on discard triggers, I was relying somewhat heavily on Burning Inquiry. So when that got countered (despite my best efforts to bait them) I lost quite a bit of steam.

I can see how that could be one direction to go, but like you said, it's a good idea to focus on one plan or another. I think this is the main reason why I plan to stick to the mono-B shell for the moment, until I've fine-tuned it to my meta and I've become more familiar with its inner workings (not necessarily in that order).

Re: [Modern] 8 Rack with Waste Not

I have been play testing the rack for well over a year now and have a list I am pretty happy with. I learned a lot from this post. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- … e-6-2013-9
He is essentially an expert on the deck, and discusses the pros and cons of each card option and the splash options. This is my deck list: http://deckbox.org/sets/750652

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I may be able to help. I have tried just about everything. I love waste not, but tapping out on turn 2 to do nothing really hurts this deck. I want it to be good but it just doesn't work. At best, sideboard it to fight blue decks. If your meta is heavy blue, then you may be able to get away with it.