To start off, I'm a new player. I started playing at the beginning of April with the Gatecrash Orzhov starter (which I kind of enjoy. Extort is fun, especially in multi-opponent games). However, I'm still not certain of my preferred play style. That being said, last Friday I drafted a deck that I enjoyed playing and it got me the furthest I've ever gotten in FNM (usually I go 1-2 because of a by, but that night I went 2-1 without a by and tied for third). I went ahead and tried to expand it into a standard deck because of how it played.

http://deckbox.org/sets/410982

Basically, I was usually playing Runner's bane on turn 2 so my opponent didn't have any creatures to swing with for the next two or so turns. Turn 3 I drop Drakewing, and turn 4 I start swinging and would bloodrush him or giant growth him, so I was swinging for at least 6 almost every turn after 4 (I'd also get others out). If my opponent started doing too much I could usually clan of defiance around turn 6 to hit him for 4 and take down at least one creature. Overall, I enjoyed the ability to swing big while still having big blockers and ways to control/direct what my opponent does.

But that was a draft event. I tried moving that style into a standard deck and it doesn't really work. Looking back over it, I suppose I could drop the Red aspect of the deck, although I lean toward them because I've been lucky enough to pull 3 Steam Vents, so I could make an Izzet deck for less hopefully. Anyone have suggestions of cards I should replace, other types of decks I should look into, or even general deck building advice (mana curve is about the only thing I know about deck building)?

It sounded to me you enjoyed shutting down you're opponents plays and then putting a presence on the board yourself after you had control of the game.

You said you went to FNM, so I assume you want something at least mildly competitive. The list bellow is a list that went 1st in Dallas at SCG Open on 5/18. It's an American control list that you might try to work towards. Obviously with rotation coming soon, i wouldn't put a whole lot of money in it unless you just have the cash to blow, picking up the shocks will still be worthwhile as well as anything from the RTR block.

Below that list is a more mid-range creature based version of the deck that I personally like better. Reckoner is a solid creature and aetherling is hard to stop.


Creatures (3)

1 Aetherling
2 Snapcaster Mage

Planeswalkers (2)

1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

Lands (26)

1 Island
1 Plains
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls

Spells (29)

1 Assemble the Legion
1 Detention Sphere
3 Azorius Charm
2 Dissipate
1 Essence Scatter
2 Searing Spear
4 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Syncopate
3 Think Twice
2 Turn
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Terminus

Sideboard
1 Aetherling
3 Clone
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Negate
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Turn
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Terminus





Creatures (10)

2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Ætherling
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Aurelia The Warleader

Planeswalkers (3)

1 Ral Zarek
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Tamyio, the Moon Sage

Lands (25)

2 Cavern of Soul's
3 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls

Spells (22)

3 Azorius Charm
1 Dissipate
2 Searing Spear
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Syncopate
3 Turn//burn
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Think Twice

Sideboard
2 Clone
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Supreme Verdict

Thanks! I'd like to have a good base deck so I can build and add to it as the next sets come out. Hopefully turn it into a competitive deck half way through Theros. Until then it unfortunately won't see much play. All my friends focus their time on Legacy decks and EDH, which I also need to build, although in multiplayer games I know I prefer running extort and similar effects that target all opponents at once. I'm thinking of making Jarad my commander for that.

can't help you much on the commander decks, but if you're looking for advice on standard I can help there. I love to watch the pro streams and do deck research on strategies in standard. the card pools for legacy/modern are to wild and varied for my taste and the cards that are really good are also really expensive.

If you're looking build a standard deck, I'd start on something now and just make changes as the sets are released. No one knows what will be in theros yet and m14 is only half spoiled though there will be no check lands in the set so we'll be stuck with gates and shocks which isn't terrible, but it will slow down the format some.

You sounded like you enjoyed control/midrange decks and American is a great version of that deck and having some of the lands gives you a step in that direction. Esper (black, blue white) is also good in that area. I don't see the American archetypes changing a whole lot. The cards that are good for American decks now, reckoner, angels, counters, aetherling, lands, draw spells, will be in the game in some form or another when the sets rotate in a few months.

Yeah. I've looked into legacy/modern, and while I can see some cool things to do, I just don't have the cards for it and it would cost too much.

I am still a little confused as to exactly how that deck works. I just watched the final game from the Dallas open where the deck wins and how he was playing it. He had a lot of card draw, which is good and I get that, and I can see how all the creature removal/creature damage cards work. I'm a little confused on how he was using aetherling. It looked like he would pump and make unblockable to swing for damage, but it also looked like he would exile him during his own turn, as well as during the other players turn?

you exile Ætherling to protect it from effects that would harm it. If he supreme verdict ed you'd want to exile it instead of letting it get destroyed. You always want to keep mana up to exile your ling.

Also you can use it to block and exile it and prevent all the damage. Alos, exiling it... it comes back into play untapped for blocking.

If you're seriously interested in the deck reddit/r/spikes has some good posts about the UWR deck to research.

In ken's deck the win cons are a little lite imo. I think i'd want to see at least one more Ætherling in the deck, maybe a 2nd assemble. Ral Zarek might be good in it too. Ken even said in a post on reddit that the deck was a meta call and that he'd like to make some changes to it.

To make the point, my friend net decked the exact deck the next FNM and had a match where he actually lost because he couldn't draw a win condition :P

Yeah. I hate copying deck ideas straight forward, so I'd definitely pull it apart and put something back together that's similar but easier to do with the cards I have. It's definitely good for seeing how a similar type deck should/could perform though.

Putting your own touch on a deck is usually good, but be careful and remember that these guys that build these decks usually have a really good understanding of the game and it'd be hard to do much better than they have. It's like that old adage, "someone else has already said it better", someone has already built it better so stick to the decks plan and don't change too much.

So I did a fail job at trying to stick to the deck's plan, mostly because I decided I'd rather put a deck together with as many cards as I own as possible, so if I do sink money into the deck, it's on things like shock lands that'll stick around for awhile. That being said, I've put together a rough template using the cards I have (it's way over 60 cards, I'm currently whittling it down), but I can't decide if I should keep the American control theme. The white gives me some good control and is cheaper, I could definitely employ smite, but I'd also like to run Green since it gives me some good mana-ramp for cheap, and it would let me play my two progenitors in late game to copy my Aetherling. Am I crazy to try and run Mimic since it's so expensive and just stick to American, or could green be worth it?

http://deckbox.org/sets/411711

Couple huge problems with the deck.

It's got 12 lands. A control deck needs 24-26 lands to be effective. I hope this is just a constructional transitional phase of the deck and not the actual plan for the manabase.

It's 4 colors. A 4 color deck can work, BUT, you have to have a completely divers mana base. You have to have a very specific plan for why you need the 4th color. YOU need to decide which color to drop.

Honestly copying a ling is a bad idea. You can't use one of it's most powerful abilities which is the exile ability. If you exile a token, poof, it's gone, and if you exile the mimic you have to copy something else again when it comes back into play.

Note on some of the cards in the deck. you can probably cut all/most of these.

Electrickery - only good as a sideboard card against token decks and some aggro decks.
Dispel - sideboard card against control decks
Smite - situationally good, but requires a defense creature base to work, not good in this deck
Spell Rupture - situationally good, only works in a deck where your creatures can have a healthy power, Bant hexproof is an example.
Annihilating Fire - searing spear, and pillar are better options for now.
Riot Control - you don't need to fog, you need to remove the creatures from the board, either by bouncing them or destroying them
Essence Backlash - kind of expensive for the effect, dissipate and syncopate are the counters you want to run. Perhaps essence scatter or negate depending on what you face.
Clan Defiance - mizzium is just so much better right now.
Urban Burgeoning - uhh... why?
Runner's Bane - see, riot control
Inaction Injunction - it stalls, it draws a card... I'd rather have think twice.
Verdant Haven - if you go green, this is not the ramp you want to run, if you go green you want elves, both arbor and pilgrim, or farseek.
Thespian's Stage, transguild promenade - <obi-wan kenobi> these are not the lands you're looking for </obi-wan kenobi> , you would rather run gates and basic lands over these, and a lot more of them.

taking the lists I gave you below that was more mid-rangy here's some substitution options if you're on a budget.


Creatures (3)

1 Aetherling
2 Snapcaster Mage - auger of bolas

Planeswalkers (2) - no subs here :(

1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

Lands (26) - gates > basic lands

1 Island
1 Plains
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls

Spells (29)

1 Assemble the Legion - not an expensive card, no reason not to trade for it
1 Detention Sphere - 5 bucks, not too bad to get. oblivian ring can sub here.
3 Azorius Charm - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Dissipate - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
1 Essence Scatter - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Searing Spear - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
4 Sphinx's Revelation - no real substitute here, sphinx's is in a class of it's own
1 Syncopate - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
3 Think Twice - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Turn - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Warleader's Helix - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
3 Supreme Verdict - no real substitute here either.
1 Terminus - no real substitute here either.

Sideboard
1 Aetherling
3 Clone
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Negate
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Turn
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Terminus

Creatures (10)

2 Snapcaster Mage - Auger of Bolas
2 Ætherling - better than the mimics trade for em if you can
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Aurelia The Warleader - something big and scary, with wings?, assemble the legion perhaps

Planeswalkers (3) - no subs here :(

1 Ral Zarek
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Tamyio, the Moon Sage

Lands (25) - gates > basiclands

2 Cavern of Soul's
3 Clifftop Retreat
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls

Spells (22)

3 Azorius Charm - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
1 Dissipate - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Searing Spear - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Sphinx's Revelation - no substitute here.
1 Syncopate - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
3 Turn//burn - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Warleader's Helix - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Pillar of Flame - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em
2 Think Twice - uncommon/common, no reason not to get em

Sideboard
2 Clone
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Supreme Verdict

It is definitely in the transitional phase. I had basically gone through and filtered in the cards I have that might possibly work in the deck (with the exception of basic lands and guild gates). I'm also still working through inventorying my collection (I've only gotten through decks I already had laying around and my bulk commons box), so I'm sure I have cards in my rare binder that would be more helpful.

For the most part, I can understand all your arguments against certain cards, but I was curious about a few:

Smite- why do I have to use it on defender creatures? Couldn't I use it in a similar way to Aether, block a creature, tap one and prevent the damage done to me or the creature, only this time the attacking creature is gone instead of my card being exiled temporarily?
Urban Burgeoning(if I decided to go with green)- I guess I'm mis-reading this card(probably my biggest problem in magic). Is it that land ONLY untaps during my opponent's untag?
Runner's Bane- If it's almost permanently tapped down, why should that be viewed differently as removal? Just because if it's an aggro deck they'll have counters they can drop on the creature to remove it, and if it's control they can destroy it?
Transguild Promenade- why is a source of any color mana that is a 1 drop not something I want?

Thanks again for all your help! I'm sure dealing with inexperienced players can get frustrating.

I've been posting regularly on deckbox for a little while. My view of helping people on here understand the game and why the competitive players make the choices they do is that it makes the whole community that much better at the game when you educate someone about why a card does what it does.


To your questions.

Smite has a condition attached to it. What if you don't have a blocker? It's a dead card in your hand regardless of the cost in that situation. In a control deck these days you usually run just a handful of powerful creatures and depending on having a creature and smite at the same time to use the card creates unfavorable odds. A straight removal spell is preferred to this even if it cost a mana or two more.

Urban burgeoning, is a terrible terrible card. Yes it's only "that" land. I can't imagine an instance in which I would want to use it. Multiplayer games? maybe?

Runners bane does sort of qualify as removal. It might stop some aggro decks. But it won't stop over 50% of the cards being played in standard right now. The card is to restrictive. If a player plays creatures that are only 4 power or more? or if they have a way to pump their creatures? sac them? What if the creature just has a great ability like deathrite shaman? it can't stop any of that. Where as for the same mana cost you can cast searing spear that kills something, or mizzium mortars... kills something... or think twice, which can draw you a card that kills something... or azorious charm which has multiple uses... Runners bane has limited value against a limited number of decks, against a limited number of creatures in those decks.

Transguild promenade, think about it like this... this is a concept called tempo. the amount of resources you have are cumulative. So on turn 1 you have 1 mana, turn 2, 2 and so on. see below.

Tempo is a term used in Magic: The Gathering to indicate the advantage gained when a player is able to play more or stronger cards in a shorter period of time due to efficient resource allocation.[1] A companion concept to card advantage, it is sometimes defined as the means by which a player gains additional options or decreases the options possessed by the opponent by means not directly pertaining to respective numbers of playable cards.[/1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo_%28Magic:_The_Gathering%29

turn 1, 1
turn 2, 2
turn 3, 3
turn 4, 4

That's a total of 10 mana over 4 turns. if you pay for trans guild promenade on turn 2 then your costing yourself mana.

turn 1, 1
turn 2, 0 - because you have to use your other land to pay for the promenade
turn 3, 3
turn 4, 4

Now you're down a 2 mana play while you're opponent probably played something on his 2nd turn. Now obviously gates hurt your tempo but not as bad, in the same scenario your only down 1 mana if you played a gate on turn 2 instead of the promenade. yes the promenade "fixes" your colors but at the cost of tempo. That's bad, tempo is important, Especially in a control deck. The ramp decks work on positive tempo gains. Like elves and farseek. So that if you play farseek on turn 2 you get the example below.

turn 1, 1
turn 2, 2
turn 3, 4
turn 4, 5

that's twelve mana available, and farseek "thins your deck", by pulling a land out, you accelerate your available mana, and you limit the possibility of drawing a land as card. You'll draw more "stuff" instead. The best thing to do in the current meta is to have the "shock lands" (2 damage to come in untapped) and the check lands, that look to see if you have a mountain,forest, island, etc... in play to come in untapped. These "dual" lands fix your mana and let you maintain your tempo.

I should quantify that I'm only a somewhat competitive player. I've topped 4 in a few FNMs at our LGS, which usally has 25-30 players. The players there are competitive though and frequently travel to the larger events. I like to watch the streams and listen to the SCG commentaries. I've played on and off since the mid 90s.

I'm a little confused on how he was using aetherling. It looked like he would pump and make unblockable to swing for damage





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That's correct essentially. Ætherling, has U: exile it return it at the end of turn, U: make it unblockable, 1: +1/-1 , 1: -1/+1

you'll usually pump it for damage and make it unblockable, or block and exile it to prevent damage or destruction.

It's one of the top 5 creatures out in the RTR block right now. Arguably the best.