351

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

TyWooOneTime wrote:

It strikes me that, while nowhere near as flashy, this most recent version will be a LOT more consistent and likely more successful.

Remember, it can seem like people are piling on, but when you put a deck idea out here on the forums, it's our job to offer criticisms... which can often seem like someone trying to argue (and, at the end of the day, it's up to you which of the suggestions you take or not).

Good luck!

yeah just some bored guys on the internet, killing time while macros run in the background. :\

Arguing card theory and choice is part of deck construction.  You need to be able to justify why that is the card you want in your deck and why it's good for you.  If you can't well, then maybe it's not the best choice. 

Devotion rewards you for front loading your board with stuff and the developers said it themselves.  They wanted playing stuff before combat to be an interesting choice to make during your turn.  Devotion doesn't reward you if you're playing a lot of spells.

352

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

As for your deck the way it's constructed....

purphous strikes me as an unusual choice.  You've got very few creatures to come in and activate him and his mana sink isn't useful the following few turns after he comes down. He's only valid late game with elspeth or assemble, and in the case of assemble it's very late game.  I feel it's "win more" assemble and elspeth are must answer cards that become inevitable win conditions the longer they're on the board.  Deal with them or die.  Purphous accelerates that, but doesn't really add anything. 

Go down a land or 2 and get you some more "stuff", you're topping out at 6 with no X spells to dump mana into, 25 land should be more than enough to get there.  Control decks usually only run 26 maybe 27 lands, if you're worried about flooding or being mana starved get some more scry in the deck with magmajet or temples of silence.

Frostburn weird is also a no go for me in this list, while it stone walls aggro you're already doing that with a removal suite and cards like reckoner.  You don't need a 1/4 wall that "might" trade with an attacker/blocker.  The reason it works in mono blue is because thassa can make him unblockable and pump him at the same time with nykthos.

I really want to see something like fiendslayer paladin along with an anthem affect like the spear.  a 4/4 reckoner and a 3/3 first strike liflink jedi is pretty good.  That turns on heliod when he comes down and also gets you some more cushion so you don't get burnt/aggroed out early game.  The burn deck is a real thing man it top 16'd the GP this weekend.

Anger kills all your dudes...  and invalidates your whole strategy, move those to the side at least if not outright cutting them, you're already setup pretty good against aggro. 

My final opinion... i can't endorse the deck as constructed...

The deck has good cards in it, but if you go this route then the RBW midrange has a better cards available to it (blood baron, obzedat) as well as a better emoval suite.   Or it seemed like you had the cards for the UWR control deck which is a good deck and has the ability to shut off lots of stuff.  If you have sphinx's, spheres, and verdicts aren't hard to get a hold of, i don't understand the aversion to trying something more proven and go with a UW or UWR build.

You've got conflicting ideas here, midrange, devotion, white... white devotion is an aggro deck because that's the way wizards constructed it.  The white devotion plan really needs to be an aggro one.  Soldier of the Pantheon plus something like dryad militant, precinct captain on turn 2, or possibly a wojek halberdiers, skyjaks or something, turn 3  ajani, reckoner or spear and you're talking some serious damage on the board. THen heliod to top it off.  It can go "big" with stuff like archangel of thune and gideon, but you need to be beating things down with creatures, gaining life to survive.  A midrange deck typically runs the best removal available and frankly right now that's in black. 

These midrange boros decks were all theorized and tested early in theros release and they really went no where.  They ended up evolving into WR aggro, White weenie decks and just RDW/red devotion.  The Dega midrange is all but gone and that basically evolved into the RWb burn deck that's floating around or a BW midrange,  and if  you're not completely married to the devotion plan, the RWb burn deck works.  It can beat mono black and all the other contenders out there right now.

I realize like you said that your store isn't hyper competitive, but i think you can build a solid tier 1 deck with what you have represented and there's no real reason you shouldn't go for it.

353

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Also, a small rant on nykthos.

Nykthos is a ramp card pure and simple.  You put in 3 mana, 2 and itself and get out more.  Which means you need to be able to consistently provide 4+ devotion to make nykthos worth anything at all. 

Right now nykthos goes in 2 decks.  Gx devotion and Blue devotion.  They are the only 2 colors that can effectively make use of nykthos.  You'll see it as a one of in black or red occasionally, but it's usually a one trick pony allowing "oops i win plays" it's not a consistent strategy in the decks.

Gx devotion uses nykthos to make sick plays with big dumb creatures, Blue devotion uses it to dump their hand consistently after thassa/bident comes online, as well as a mana sink for unblockable wierds and the like. Black kind of can use it to whip/gary win sometimes, but not as well as blue or green.  With white however you don't have enough of a consistent mana sink to make it worth while.  You might be able to sphinx for a couple more cards or maybe make an extra cleric, but you're not doing the game winning/changing plays that the other decks are. Making an extra cleric won't win you the game and sphinxing more usually just means an extra point or two. 


All of this to potentially hurt your chances of playing your WW or WWW cards consistently, and you might/maybe get an extra mana or 2 occasionally.

354

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

If you want white devotion you really need to drop blue.  All you're doing by going 3 color is making it harder to cast the permanents you really need to turn on your devotion.  At this point you're on the fence between a control deck and a devotion deck.  I think you need to make that choice to help define the deck more first. 

I'm not opposed to the concept of white devotion with spear and heliod, those are both good cards in a vacuum, but the cards that synergize the best with that build are going to be more creature/permanent based.  You should really be looking towards a lower curve, get some one drops in the deck and go on the aggro plan. Chained to the rocks can still be a solid removal card, but the blue really has no place in the type of deck you're talking about.

You've got about 20 permanents that can turn on devotion and most of those are only 1 devotion a piece. For the devotion plan to work and to get return on your investments you need 26-30 white permanents, with multiple WW symbols.  When you slap down heliod he needs to be turned on otherwise he's a 4 mana do nothing.  You need that guaranteed every time to make him a credible threat. 

As it stands now the UWR build you have going has nothing against removal.  You're playing your own removal which tells me you're afraid of aggro/creatures, but you have nothing here that stops opposing removal or gives the deck enough resiliency to win if your initial plan fails.  A 3 color midrange cannot do devotion well.  I'm speaking from experience here.  It will not work the way you want consistently enough.

355

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

def get some turn/burn in there, at least a couple (they can kill gods which is great).  If you like the reckoners as another way to stone wall aggro I can hear an argument there, but the devotion just strikes me as weird.  A) it's a 3 color deck, B) you're not playing enough permanents, C) white is the worst color for devotion right now.

I think getting rid of the captains and the devotion cards would help the consistency of the deck a lot as well as free up some room for some of the things we're talking about here. Not to mention the difficulty of producing WW on turn 2.  Reckoner is a little easier but you really need all 4 temples.

Personally.   I want to see more draw here, in the form of divination or jace aot. You need more consistent card advantage.  jace works equally well against aggro if you like reckoner he helps buff him up and trade more favorably.  If not the divination is just a value draw card and fits in under turn 4 so you can still play a verdict if you need it or a turn 4 warleader's helix.   

You've got a lot of stuff to take care of the board.  You could probably also cut the angel and the firemane avenger.  Angel strikes me as unnecessary.  Aurelia would be better imo if you really need another body or Stormbreath dragon (if you can get them) would be a better card for that role.  Aetherling is unstoppable once he comes online and i think he fits the deck better than angle. But you're already running 2x elspeth and if you move an assemble mainbaord then you've got enough win conditions.

Also, instead of mortars consider magma jet if you don't want to include more draw.  The 2 damage isn't irrelevant in the format and the ability to scry 2 helps a lot.  You have  a lot of removal and if you get a few board wipes in the main deck the mortars become less relevant.

I get what you're saying about the soft matches in your meta, but I think that you can easily beat any strange rogue decks and still build a more consistent UWr deck.  You'll also have better game against those few guys that really run the good decks.  You said some people run "good" decks but don't know how to play them?  I wouldn't underestimate the ability of your opponents to learn their decks and give you more of a run for your money.

356

(21 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Here's the thing about any UWx deck.  The most powerful cards in the colors we know are Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere, Sphinx's Rev, azorius charm.  That's a pretty powerful shell for a deck.  IMO trying to make this a midrange deck instead of a control deck is a mistake.   Adding red gets you warleader's helix, assemble, anger of the gods, and chained to the rocks which are great cards and you're only running one of those maindeck.

Heliod and the spear is a mistake, you're going to be able to turn him on occasionally, but it's going to be rough, and on turn 4 you need to be either wiping the board or dropping something that completely dominates it in a midrange deck.  There are much more powerful midrange options that synergy better together. Look at the other midrange decks and how they're curving out.  Mono black drops desecration demon on turn 4, mono blue drops master of waves, control decks like esper drop verdict or jace, GR is putting huge threats out as early as turn 3.  You need to be dropping something a little tougher that impacts the board more.

I tried heliod in RWB for a while and he's just too slow, and  couldn't turn him on enough.

What are you ramping too with nykthos? 

What I see here is two halves of two completely different decks smashed together.  WR devotion/weenie and UWr control.  You should really decide on one or other of those and you'd be in a much stronger position.

Have you play tested much?  How are your matchups against other decks?  Mono black or blue, esper, various aggro decks? Teir 1.5 decks like UR chimera, RWB, RW burn, or grixxis?

357

(6 replies, posted in General Discussion)

You can usually tell what edition it is by the date at the bottom.  There are also, some specific markers depending on the cards, borders, text, art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ma … ering_sets

358

(28 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

I'm a little less optimistic than Ty.  For an aggro deck you're light on creatures; for a midrange deck you're light on bombs and for anything else the cards are just too random.  Have you play tested this at all?  How does it hold up against teir 1 decks?  Teir 2? 

Lands - You're at 20, which for an aggro deck might be okay, but you're not really an agro deck.  Need the Sacred foundry's and a couple more temples.  2 color will be difficult to pull off without all the mana fixing available to you. The scry lands are of benefit in and of themselves just for the scry.

2 Boros Guildgate
7 Mountain
1 Mutavault
8 Plains
2 Temple of Triumph

Spells - this is your worst area.  You have a hodge podge of random effects.  Removal buffs, tricks.  I'm not sure what plan you're on.  Only a couple of these actually trigger heroic. If you want to go the removal route and play more of a control/burn matchup then there is definitely a deck for that. I'll post a list at the bottom.

1 Brave the Elements
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Ethereal Armor
2 Messenger's Speed
1 Silence
2 Boros Charm
2 Magma Jet
4 Martial Glory
1 Ratchet Bomb

Creatures - 17 creatures isn't enough to get you there in an aggro deck one sweeper and you're SOL.  You'll never be able to put enough pressure on IMO.  You need some effective one drops like Satyr, soldier of the pantheon, 2 drops like pricinct captain etc.  And if you go midrange or aggro then you can drop everything here but reckoner and the bird.

4 Phalanx Leader
2 Anax and Cymede
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fabled Hero

Others - You're not going to have enough devotion to turn on the gods consistently and trying to run and turn on both is silly.  Pick one or the other.   Ajani goes in a white weenie type deck, not in a burn deck. 

1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
____________________________________________________________________________________
This burn deck is a fantastic control/burn deck.  It does a much better job of the plan (i think) you're on.  The other thing about this deck is it's decently affordable and even a cheap version of it can be built if you need to sub some lands or side board cards.

9  Mountain
4  Sacred Foundry
4  Temple of Silence
4  Temple of Triumph
21 lands

4  Chandra's Phoenix
4  Rakdos Cackler
8 creatures

4  Boros Charm
4  Chained to the Rocks
4  Lightning Strike
4  Magma Jet
4  Shock
4  Skullcrack
4  Toil // Trouble
3  Warleader's Helix
31 other spells

Sideboard
4  Anger of the Gods
4  Boros Reckoner
2  Mizzium Mortars
2  Spark Trooper
3  Young Pyromancer

359

(3 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Also the card usually has to be desirable in the first place.  I miss-cut thoughtseize would be worth something where as a miss-cut Bronze Sable not so much.

Also, up your land count to about 23-24.  You're not casting things that are overly expensive but in this type of deck you want to be able to keep resources open to respond to what you're opponent is doing.



You need more of the chimera, and I would recommend looking for some young pyromancers. 

You should really only be running 12-16 creatures tops. 

Spells like izzet charm, quicken, magma jet, lightning strike, are where it's at for you.  Also steam augury is good for this plan.

361

(3 replies, posted in Trading Post)

Just FYI for the masses,  some of the more expensive tokens.   

Voice of Resurgence elemental - http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisp … uct=447188

Vraska Assassin - http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisp … uct=413859

Cleric Heliod - http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisp … uct=513171

I wouldn't expect full SCG retail, but these are worth more than $.25. Emblems usually go for a little more than your regular token too.

362

(4 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

I liked the 2nd place deck from SCG dallas. It was more on the red plan than the white plan.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ckID=60516

the reason why white devotion hasn't been a thing really is because the evangel card doesn't do enough to seal the game.  All of the cards do good stuff, but they just don't do enough.

The best white devotion deck I saw or played against used path of bravery, fiend slayer paladin and topped out at archangel and elspeth.

I think ty is right with the whip if you're feeding stuff into the yard. 

After thinking about it a bit, I think your issue here is your laser like focus on one plan.  You don't need to go all in on any given plan a better way to play is a well rounded strategy.  In a general sense this makes your deck as favored as possible in any given matchup while not laying down and taking it from the less favored matches. 

You're all in on the yard plan, the problem here is you'll run out of gas at some point and your creatures need to be able to stand on their own and you need to be able to top deck meaningful cards to add to your board or affect your opponents board.  A turn 5 informer on an empty board/hand doesn't do much, but a turn 5 varolz with a scavenging ooze or troll in the yard is suddenly a 4/4.  That's beefy threat even on turn 5.  and if you have a whip in play from the previous turn, 4/4 lifelink can get you back in the game.

I would caution you though.  things like whip and scavenge etc, will likely only be able to be used a couple times a game, and in general you won't be able to feed both.  So you should decide if you want to go aggro or big aggro.  Lotleth can feed things like scavenging ooze or varolz, where as with whip you'll want bigger creatures like kalonian hydra or abhorrent overlord.

Actually I think I'm one of the odd ball on these forums. Most people here are pretty casual.

I play standard more, and that seems to be where most of the new players are or people just getting into going to FNMs.

I try to set people's expectations.  Some FNMs are pretty soft, others like mine will chew you up and spit you out.

I totally got the point of the deck.  A fun deck can be it's own reward, and if that's the goal then by all means proceed.  Take it to FNM, test it out see how it works.  *shrug*

That being said, speaking from experience here. I just don't think it's very competitive as constructed. I play at a pretty competitive store you won't see a deck that's not a tier 1/1.5 deck where we play.  I'm not always gonna win, but I like to play the best cards available to me to increase those chances.  I think most tier one decks probably have a good game against your build.  If someone showed up with this deck at our store, it'd be a pretty rough night for them.

I hope it works out, though. Remember there are other resources at your disposal too.  SCG and TCG decklists. Articles.  A well known player recently has been working on a golgari agrro deck.  You might try looking that up. Reddit has a pretty good magic community too.

Well it looks better.  It's got some synergy which is good, but to be honest some of the cards don't provide enough value.  I don't know if you're card choices are very limited due to budget but if they are getting some of the uncommons I mention below shouldn't be hard. 

Slither head - dies to everything doesn't do anything besides chump and get you an extra counter.  Strongly recommend switching to Experiment 1.

Sylvan Caryatid - not sure what it's doing for you in this deck.  It doesn't support you're aggro plan. It's a ramp card... what are you ramping too though?  you're not going to be able to hit the turn 3 monster like red/green.  You're deck is an aggro deck that works off attrition. This deck should be able to keep resilient threats on the field and apply constant pressure.  Sylvan Caryatid does none of these things.  I recommend using pack rat or even, scavenging ooze if you can get them.

Under City informer - no, just no tongue  Seriously though, you're going to sacrifice a creature for some kind of mill?  All this card does is help your opponent.  There are any number of better 3 drops.  Dreg Mangler, Varolz, lifebane zombie etc...

Jarad - he's okay, there are worse 4 drops.  Corpse jack might actually be an okay 4 drop here if you go with more scavenge.  However, I do like the reaper, she's resilient, but remember she's probably more of a 6 drop than a 4 drop.  You want to be able to give her hexproof so she doesn't get removed, unless you happen to have multiples in your hand.  In general reaper has to be answered. 

Nemisis - for a 6 drop he lacks a lot.  He could potentially come out earlier.  I'm not totally apposed to the idea of the inclusion of the nemesis in the deck, but if you play more scavenge he's probably not the way to go. Also, milling yourself with the informer to enable this, is not a good play.  I think if you want to run this guy he comes down to a 1 of maybe 2 of.  He could surprise some decks, but honestly,  he's probably just a target for removal.  I think you need more threats, not bigger threats. Lotleth and Exp 1 can get pretty big I don't think this guy is necessary.  You'll almost never be able to actually hard cast this guy.  Getting to 6 mana, even with ramp off of 21 lands would be really hard.

Elvish Mystic - I'm okay with this, if you have a good 3 drop or 4 drop to get to .  Right now, I'd be embarrassed to drop an informer turn 2. 

Night Howler - really if you cast him turn 3 he's probably at best a 1/1 and if you ramp with elf and are able to cast him turn 2, you probably won't be able too with nothing in the yard.  Again, any of the other 3 drops I mentioned would be better.

Grisly, Commune, Filth - you need more 'stuff" these cards don't provide enough of what you need.  Grisely is fine, it can help you if you get mana screwed and get you a creature.  I'd stick with it.  However, you need some removal of your own.  You really need some number of Hero's Downfall, devour flesh, doomblade or ultimate price.  I think for this deck you want cheaper removal, so devour flesh, doomblade, ultmiate price.  Hero's downfall maybe as a 1 of, 2 of if you have them for planes walkers.  Devour flesh can also help you gain life if you need it.

Remember you're a BG aggro deck right now, not a ramp deck, not a mill deck. You don't need to try to dump everything into the yard.  That will happen naturally through combat/removal.  And if you're creatures aren't getting removed then you're already winning and don't need to fill up your yard.  You can still get synergy off the yard but it needs to be part of the plan, not the only plan.

it's about consistency.  A consistent turn 3 Arbor Collossus or garruk is pretty good.  Nykthos would also be something you'd want to get a hold of for this type of deck.

I'm okay with pit fight as removal, since  it's instant and you can do some tricky stuff with the bow since it provides death touch while attacking.

I don't like time to feed. It's a 3 mana sorcery and a little slow.  plus I think you need more dudes. I want to see some burning tree emmissary sylvan carytid and voyaging satyr in a devotion deck.  Also if you go mono green you can run nylea's disciple for some bueno lifegain.

369

(28 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Since silverblade paladin rotated the viability of double strike is really limited to boros charm.  What you need to do is focus on a solid RW aggro deck and just get some charms in for the double strike finisher.  Also, don't forget about ajani.

Heroic just isn't there right now. 

2nd place red devotion from dallas open
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ckID=60516

6th place white weenie from dallas open (also similar to 1st place deck from LA)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ckID=60527

Build one of these decks and try it out.  Tweak it for your meta game.  Fast decks like this are good against control and sometimes just "win" even when the odds are down.  If the video is up, there's a match between the 2nd place deck and a UW control.  He burns the guy out in response to a sphinx's rev.  Beautiful play.

I get wanting to heavily answer the blue decks in you're area, but you have to also be more flexible in case you show up and everyone has changed gears to mono black.  They have enough removal and life drain to really put a hurt on this deck..

Your best bet is to build a solid deck with a side board, perhaps 1 - 2 cards MD to defeat your blue matchups. 

Something like this. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ckID=60381

Keep in mind that cards like fleecemane and Witchstalker are already hexproof and kind of "anti control".  Against mono blue, you just need to race them and be faster.

371

(18 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

I think rakdos can get there.  I think it needs to be RDW splash black though.  Or perhaps even Red Devotion splash black. Like a "big" red devotion. 

obviously white has a little more going for it with boros charm, chained to the rocks and brave the elements, but rakdos could be a tier 1.5 or solid tier 2 deck.  Definitely FNM material.

372

(18 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

rogue decks are one thing, but i think we're talking about different metas.

373

(18 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

I'm sorry, but that just sounds awful tongue

a 4 color deck with the current manabase is not a viable deck at all.    There's a pretty good reason why we haven't seen a list like this at a PTQ or open let a lone the pro tour.  It's just not viable in an environment where you expect to face a lot of tough decks.

374

(18 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

the thing about the 2 drop deck is anger of the gods just invalidates your strategy.

Also, burning tree has zero synergy with these cards.

4x Ash Zealot
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak

I have a hard time believing an aggressive deck can play a 3 color mana base atm and still win.  3 color is only viable for midrange and control atm.

375

(18 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Underworld cerebus is interesting.  I _think_ it goes in a deck where you nuke their creatures and eat their yard.  Perhaps, the cards just aren't there yet.  Or if you're able to just exile their creatures. 

rakdos keyrune is okay, but what made good in jund before was kessig wolfrun.  kessig made anything a threat and we just don't have access to that.  The big threats in those colors are really heavyily invested in those colors too.  Stormbreath is probably the easiest to cast and most effective. 

I've seen a few people kicking around the jund control build on other websites, i just don't think it's there.  I'd be happy to eat my words though if you figure it out.

alternately.  I'm feeling the BR brew, similar from the world tour but with more of a devotion aspect ATM.  Getting on the Gary Train... woot woot... tongue