EPIC REVISION HAPPENED!

elpablo wrote:

Sorry to hear that, but don't get discouraged. 

Mill usually isn't a viable win condition against most decks.

Ah. This deck was made when I was having a 'f**k life' moment. My other one, 501st company of the Boros Legion reporting for duty! (semi-casual), is more of an attempt to even try.

Play tested the deck, but it failed miserably.

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:

First of all, man cheers up. You don't need rares or mythics or planeswalkers to win games.

You do, however, need both a plan, and a way to achieve that plan. If we go ahead with the "I want to mill people out and play blue/black cards" plan, here's what I see in your inventory that can accomplish that:

4x Balustrade Spy
1x Breaking // Entering
2x Chronic Flooding
1x Coerced Confession
1x Consuming Aberration
2x Crosstown Courier
4x Doorkeeper
1x Duskmantle Guildmage
1x Jace's Mindseeker
1x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
1x Paranoid Delusions
3x Pilfered Plans
1x Psychic Strike
2x Tome Scour

The thing to remember about mill is that it's a worse version of burn. While burn tries to do 20 damage as fast as possible, you're basically trying to do 53 (since your opponent starts with 7 cards in hand). Picture a deck with all Lightning Bolts vs a deck with all Tome Scours. The burn player only has to cast 7 spells, while the mill player has to cast 10-11 and then wait for the opponent's next draw step. "If I mill my opponent's bomb, though,", you say, "then I have more time!" True, but you're just as likely to mill away your opponent's five irrelevant spells and cause them to draw their bomb right away instead of five turns later, and if that happens you have even less time.

Because that'll take longer, you also need some way to stay alive while you're milling your opponent. That's where the controlling aspects come in, things that disrupt your opponent's plan and prevent you from dying.

1x Aetherize
3x Cancel
3x Claustrophobia
1x Dimir Charm
3x Disperse
1x Duress
2x Far // Away
2x Killing Glare
1x Rapid Hybridization
4x Mind Rot
1x Ultimate Price
4x Warped Physique

For this kind of strategy, I'd say anything that doesn't either mill your opponent or disrupt them and keep you alive is a wasted card. That means no Nefarox, no Notion Thief, and if you're not willing to improve your mana base, definitely no splashing red.

Before you add any card, you should be asking yourself questions like:

- How does this card advance my plan?
- Is this a good card by itself?
- How well does this card work with the rest of my deck?

Take Doorkeeper. For 2U, you get to mill your opponent for only one card. "But", you say, "if I have lots of walls out, I can mill them for way more than 1!" Yeah, that's true, but you'd need to have 5 walls in play just to get a more expensive version of Tome Scour. That doesn't seem very good, especially since while you're trying to do this your opponent is beating you with creatures and all you have to keep yourself alive is a bunch of walls.

If you're willing to accept the fact that this deck won't be very good and won't win very often, then start by picking your favourite 35 of the cards above and 25 lands (since you've got a lot of expensive spells). If you want a better mill plan, you'll have to expand out into big repeatable mill effects, like Mind Grind and Jace, Memory Adept.

Thanks! I'll try it out!

elpablo wrote:

we can view each other collections.  Otherwise what's the point of having a trading website right?  smile

With your selection being pretty slim, IDK what help I could offer.  Just evaluate your cards and find as much synergy as possible.

Alright. I DID find that Doorkeeper/Murmuring Phantasm/Hired Torturer combo. Perhaps I'll find more.

Flavor text removed. I just want to be serious about this deck now.

EDIT: EPIC REVISION!

Creatures:

Grey-
Armored Transport x2

Red-
Guttersnipe x2
Warmind Infantry x2
Legion Loyalist x1
Pitchburn Devils x2
Chandra's Phoenix x1

Red/White-
Firemane Avenger x2
Fortress Cyclops x2
Spark Trooper x1
Skyknight Legionnaire x2
Wojek Halberdiers x2
Ordruun Veteran x1
Viashino Firstblade x2
Tajic, Blade of the Legion x1

White-
Bazaar Krovod x2
Angelic Skirmisher x2
Guardian of the Gateless x2
Frontline Medic x1
Daring Skyjek x2
Boros Elite x3
Nav Squad Commandos x2
Maze Sentinel x2
Boros Mastiff x1
Seraph of the Sword x1
Dawnstrike Paladin x1
Observant Alseid x1

Other Spells:

Grey-
Civic Saber x2
Tablet of the Guilds x2
Boros Keyrune x4
Accorder's Shield x1

Red-
Annihilating Fire x2
Explosive Impact x2
Mizzium Mortars x1
Traitorous Instinct x2
Madcap Skills x2
Furious Resistance x1
Punish the Enemy x2
Lightning Talons x1
Chandra, Pyromaster x1

Red/White-
Arrows of Justice x2
Martial Glory x1
Warleader's Helix x1

White-
Ethereal Armor x2
Knightly Valor x1
Holy Mantle x1
Shielded Passage x2
Smite x2
Riot Control x2
Celestia Flare x1
Planar Cleansing x1
Solemn Offering x1
Chosen by Heliod x1
Ray of Dissolution x1

Lands:
Mountain x12
Boros Guildgate x4
Plains x12

If you want to know which cards I didn't think would make the cut, ask me and I'll post them in the comment below.

elpablo wrote:

well, speaking from experiance, if budget is a factor then you need to focus on one deck at a time.

Yeah. My budget consists of zero dollars. I just have the 649 distinct cards in my collection. My deck making is just for fun at this point.

So, do you have the ability to SEE my collection? If you can, maybe you could suggest things I could put into this deck.

elpablo wrote:

Cheer, up you're a nice guy.. there's someone for everyone. tongue J/K

Uhh, chandra and ralzarek, and the blood crypt aren't doing you much good if you want to play control with a mill win condition.  I'm sure you can offer those and get some bites.  Now is a good time to trade chandra she just spiked 15 bucks.  She won't get much better.

I was just about to conceptualize a deck with her in it, actually.

Most of what I have to trade are commons. I want to keep at least 4 of each card, and the only ones that I've got more than 4 of are the commons, and a few uncommons.

elpablo wrote:
Auto_D wrote:

I appreciate the advice given here, but to repeat what I said to the last guy, this is a casual play deck. I've given up hope on winning anything. I have too few rare cards, and no funds.

Also, I only have one Consuming Aberration, and only two Planeswalkers: the most resent Chandra and Ral Zarek.


Well, which is it?  Casual or FNM? In my mind (and most other peoples) casual is just with friends and kitchen table magic.  FNM is a level of competition.  Not a high one, but depending on your area, it can be pretty competitive.

To the issue of budget, there is only so much you can do if you're not willing to trade and buy more cards.  You can take the advice given here and try to apply it the best you can, but the cards suggested are suggested because they're the best at what they do.  You can substitute but it won't be as good.

Also the major piece of advice still stands.  You don't play "mill" you play "control" with a mill win condition.  That's the biggest take away from your thread right now.

I am MORE than willing to trade. But the problem with that is that no one would want what I have to offer.

elpablo wrote:
tav2smart4u wrote:

A few words of advice. Friends don't let friends play mill.

too true.

FNM is usually standard which means only cards from RTR block, m14 and now theros.  You'll have to limit your card selection down to those sets unless your store plays modern.  Also, it's been said many times on these forums.  You don't play "mill", you play control, with a mill win condition.  Throwing every card that says "mill" into a deck doesn't make it playable, no more than throwing everything in your fridge into a blender makes a milkshake. 

You have to have a plan.  Mill decks (while not popular and not particularly competitive or effective) can still work. At this point you'd have to be UB or Esper (BUW), you might even be able to do grixis (UBR). You must have a way to deal with opposing creatures, removal and board wipes.  You must have a way to deal with opposing planes walkers, removal and counterspells. You must have a way to deal with opposing control, card advantage and counter spells. 

You're really looking to build a list similar to this.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ckID=59588

and then just replace the other win conditions with a little mill.  Instead of Ætherling you'd want jace memory adept, and perahaps anotehr mill creature like consuming aberration.  This type of deck also lost a key card in standard when rotation happened. Nephalia drownyard.  You can't play that in anything but modern now, and mill really isn't a valid strategy there to win an FNM.

I appreciate the advice given here, but to repeat what I said to the last guy, this is a casual play deck. I've given up hope on winning anything. I have too few rare cards, and no funds.

Also, I only have one Consuming Aberration, and only two Planeswalkers: the most resent Chandra and Ral Zarek.

TyWooOneTime wrote:

You are intending to use this deck for what type of play?  Casual?  FNMs?

Keep in mind that as amusing as milling might be, it is technically making your job three times harder than it normally should be... so if you're headed for a competitive environment, it's not exactly a good plan to start with...

Just casual FNM. Not really wanting to go pro or any of that nonsense.

So I'm making a Dimir deck out of my cards that I have affectionately named 'House Dimir Milling Co.' With the obvious point of the deck to mill cards my opponent has. I've been following the advice of these three links, but I'm just so....overwhelmed by all the cards I've chosen (109 not counting dupes). So, on the off-chance that anyone would like to help, here's what I've picked to be candidates for the deck, NOT COUNTING BASIC LANDS.

UPDATE: All M13 cards (all four of 'em) have been removed.
UPDATE: Deck concept Uno thanks to PhyrexianLibrarian.

Messenger Drake x3
Warden of Evos Isle x2
Air Servant
Jace's Mindseeker
Archaeomancer
Coral Merfolk x3
Clone
Colossal Whale (Promo, BTW.)
Claustrophobia x3
Illusionary Armor x2
Cancel x3
Disperse x3
Essence Scatter x2
Frost Breath x3
Divination
Tome Scour
Runewing x3
Doorkeeper x4 (have a GOOD plan for this one.)
Stealer of Secrets x3
Voidwielder x2
Crosstown Courier x2
Chronic Flooding x2
Paralyzing Grasp x2
Blustersquall
Dispel
Inaction Injunction x2
Diluvian Primordial
Mindeye Drake x2
Keymaster Rogue x2
Incursion Specialist x2
Leyline Phantom x2
Realmwright
Sage's Row Denizen x3
Aetherize
Scatter Arc
Spell Rupture x3
Last Thoughts x2
Wind Drake x3
Maze Glider x2
Aetherling
Murmuring Phantasm x4 (for use with Doorkeeper)
Opal Lake Gatekeepers x3
Mindstatic x3
Hidden Strings x2
Uncovered Clues
Annul
Stymied Hopes
Fate Foretold
Bident of Thassa (Also promo.)
Thassa's Bounty
Consuming Aberration
Dinrova Horror
Deathcult Rogue x4
Duskmantle Guildmage
Mortus Strider x2
Dimir Charm
Psychic Strike
Dimir Guildgate x2
Coerced Confession
Paranoid Delusions
Notion Thief
Woodlot Crawler x4
Far // Away x2
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
Pilfered Plans x3
Ravenous Rats
Tormented Soul x4
Waking Corpse x3
Zombie Goliath x2
Blood Reckoning x2
Murder x2
Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis
Disentomb
Rise from the Grave
Child of the Night
Mark of the Vampire
Drainpipe Vermin x2
Shrieking Affliction
Cremate
Assassin's Strike x2
Destroy the Evidence
Mind Rot x4
Slate Street Ruffian
Gateway Shade x2
Balustrade Spy x4
Corpse Blockade x2
Wight of Precinct Six x2
Gutter Skulk x4 (sacrifice creatures)
Midnight Recovery x2
Shadow Slice x2
Undercity Plague
Maze Abomination x2
Hired Torturer x3 (for use with Doorkeeper)
Crypt Incursion x4
Breaking // Entering
Blood Crypt (on the off-chance I get to use both halves to the above
Cavern Lampad

Deck build 1:
1x Jace's Mindseeker
3x Doorkeeper
2x Crosstown Courier
2x Chronic Flooding
1x Aetherize
2x Cancel
2x Disperse
2x Tome Scour
11x Island
1x Consuming Aberration
1x Duskmantle Guildmage
1x Dimir Charm
2x Far // Away
1x Psychic Strike
1x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
1x Paranoid Delusions
3x Pilfered Plans
1x Dimir Guildgate
4x Balustrade Spy
2x Killing Glare
1x Breaking // Entering
4x Mind Rot
11x Swamp

So, if you have any ideas of what to take away, keep in, move to a side board, or whatever, just comment. And, just so you don't go suggesting I put in cards I don't have, just go check my inventory.