Every few weeks it seems there is a new thread rant regarding some issue with making trades work here on deckbox. There really is no set of definite rules that everyone follows to the letter but having some generic guidelines to help new people will make it easier for both parties to get what they want.

1. [u]Finding users that have what you want[/u] -

Not everyone on Deckbox uses it for its trading feature. There are plenty of users who use it as means to manage their collections or build deck ideas instead of using excel spread sheets. Then there are the people who create an account, upload some cards in tradelist and then realize this is not for them and dont log ever again. Right now there is no feature that allows someone to be "hidden" when they are no longer actively trading for a prolonged period of time or they dont want to trade so in the mean time here are some tips get around these issues.

- (OPTION 1) Your best bet to get trades going other than to post in an active forum and or Community group (like the Reddit MTG trades) is to search the card database on the site and match your want with who ever has it listed in their current tradelist. (Click on the card in your inventory/tradelist to bring up the card description in the database). Your next step should be to see when they were active last. Scroll down to the bottom section of the page that lists users who have that card for trade. Next to each name is an icon of a person thats either grey (offline status) or blue (online status). If you hover the icon with your mouse, it bring up the last time that person was active on the site. Generally if someone hasnt been active for a more than a week from the current date, you can rule them out as someone to trade with until they become active again.

- (OPTION 2) Look at a user's completed trades. If you scroll past an active user's current trades, down to their completed and cancelled trades, you'll find people who are more recently active depending when the trade was completed or cancelled and while they might not have exactly what your looking for, you might find something else thats equally interesting or needed.

2.[u] Check References & Read Profile Descriptions[/u] -

- Once you find an active user with something your interested in, its important to check their trade references and see what kind of trade history they have. Obviously trading with someone who as alot of experience is perferable to trading with someone new but not everyone that has alot of references has what you want.

- No 2 traders are exactly alike. How you trade with one person might not work with the next. If someone has a notice on their profile description regarding certain aspects of trading (ie pricing, condition, wants) you should take the time to read it. It will go along way with trying to get trades worked out if your both on the same page and are speaking the same language when comes to negotiating.

3. [u]Proposing Trades, Deckbox style[/u]

- Once you've found a potential partner, you can go ahead and propose a trade. Just like at your local gaming store, its important to commuicate. If you see something in someone's binder in real life, you dont just point at the card, "grunt" like a caveman, and throw a binder of cards at them. Same thing applies here. The best and most successful way to get a trade started and completed is to list the cards your interested in from the other person, say something in the chatbox and then propose. They dont need your life story, just a simple "Hey hows it going, Im interested in CARDNAME. Let me know if there is anything of mine your interested in. Thanks."

- Proposing a trade without saying anything in the chat box will get you as far as a turtle in peanut butter. Even if you have stuff on their wishlist, leave your end blank then propose the trade. Users are sent email notifications only when a trade is actually proposed not when they are just created. Unless your setting up a purchase of cards, leaving your end blank will allow the other trader a chance to look at what you have and what they actually need based on necessity, want or what is already been trade for.

- You can tell if someone has not seen a message in the chatbox, if you look at the their current trades and next to the Hourglass or Arrow, they have a conversation bubble. If its there they havent seen the message yet, but if the bubble is not there, they either saw it briefly and didnt have a chance to respond or thinking it over might get back to you later.

- Using the "Email" option on a person's profile can be used as a last option to get a trade going. When a person recieves an email, they cannot actually respond to it. They are only linked to your profile and then they have to start the trade with you. Its much easier get a response by sending a proposal email to someone than sending then just a email where the other person would have to do all the work. If you want something from them, make the effort to get the ball rolling.

4. [u]Trade Economics[/u]

- Think of trading online as buying something from eBay or Amazon. You send the money first then get the item. Same logic applies here but with not as much added security.

- The unwritten rule is generally the person with the lower References or is new to the site sends first. Trading online this way increases your chances of finding the cards your looking for without having to buy endless amounts packs for the chance to get them, or buying from a store, or trying find someone in your area to physically trade with. However this comes at a price. The price is the risk you take by sending your cards to a complete stranger and trusting they send you what you want. This is why its important to trade with someone who has a proven track record of being a reputable trader. Id be lying if I said there werent people who take advantage of this trust and try to scam you, but its the risk you take by agreeing to the rules and making the atempt to trade.

- The best way I found for a new trader to get their cards sooner is to send cards with tracking and give me the tracking number. Once I confirm the tracking number is legit (ie the date matches to the when it was sent, theres actually physically something in the USPS possession because of the tracking) I'll send out the other person's end. I have yet to have this process backfire on me and pretty sure alot of people who traded with me when they first started were relieved to get the trade done sooner.

5. [u]Getting the most Bang for your BUCK[/u]

-If your looking to sell your collection or just a few cards, you need to keep in mind that there is an inherant difference between TCG/SCG value and actual cash value. Using a store price to value a cash offer is not a good way to get your cards sold. Stores like SCG and TCG are there to make more money than they spend. They do no sell cards for the price they got them at, which why they have a buylist price Your starting price for the cards should fall somewhere between that buylist price and the lowest offer than can be found. Why? Because if people want to buy a card for the full tcg scg value, why not then just buy from them? Its both safer and more practical then to have to deal with a single person whose jsut looking to off load some cards.

There is no set price that a card should sell for but keep in mind this a hobby and very collectible, so like all collectibles, cards are only worth what people will pay for them. A good reference for this would be to check eBay sold listings. Your asking price should reflect the avg of what a card sold for because that way your not getting the lowest price but not asking for the highest price either.

6. [u]Patience is a virtue[/u]

- Just like Rome wasnt built in a day, things take time. Every single person on the planet, let alone this site, is living a life just as chaotic, stressful, and busy as your own and there are definitly things that take priority over checking a website. Once you propose something to user, give them a few days (atleast 3-4) to get back to you. Trading online is a slow process so if you need that last shockland to finish your playset for FNM this friday, your doing it wrong. There needs to be ample time given for both sides to consider the offer. Depending where the cards are being sent and by what type of mail, shipping time usually varies. The farther away they are being sent, the longer it will take.

- The trading rules can be found here (http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1273) and the site rules here (http://deckbox.org/help/trade_rules).
They are there to protect both parties. If and when the trade is agreed upon, make sure you discuss how things are getting shipped, and whether one person sends first or sending same time (simu-send).

Im sure more thoughts and ideas will be brought about as time goes on, so I will edit this post with the best of them.

So in the mean time, you stay classy Planet Earth. KCCO XD

Helios52 wrote: Proposing a trade without saying anything in the chat box will get you as far as a turtle in peanut butter.

This is something that people need to learn.
If someone starts a trade with me, there's a good chance I won't notice it if nothing is said in the chatbox.

Passing a motion to vote this becoming a Sticky post, do I have the motion seconded?

Thank you for posting this, Helios52. This is a very helpful guide, especially for new traders. Until the new trade interface gets implemented, I request to have this stickied. Perhaps this should also be posted in Trading Post - I can sticky it there.

UnstableFlux wrote:Passing a motion to vote this becoming a Sticky post, do I have the motion seconded?

Seconded, thirded, etc.

AsymptomaticPyrexia wrote:Thank you for posting this, Helios52. This is a very helpful guide, especially for new traders. Until the new trade interface gets implemented, I request to have this stickied. Perhaps this should also be posted in Trading Post - I can sticky it there.

Ive posted in the Deckbox Trading Post Forum as well. Ill go through and fix my grammar when I get the chance as well.

One thing to add:

I've had a few people use Deckbox to send me an email saying "I want your X,Y,Z, and have A,B,C. Let me know if you're interested"... Please don't do this, just start a trade and talk there!

Helios52 wrote:Ive posted in the Deckbox Trading Post Forum as well.

Stickied. Thank you very much!

Helios52 wrote:- The unwritten rule is generally the person with the lower References or is new to the site sends first...

I think this should be pointed out and highlighted as something that both parties should agree on before a trade is accepted. The Bad Trade forum is littered with cases where one person thought they were sending at the same time, the other person didn't, and everyone ended up angry.

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:

Helios52 wrote:- The unwritten rule is generally the person with the lower References or is new to the site sends first...

I think this should be pointed out and highlighted as something that both parties should agree on before a trade is accepted. The Bad Trade forum is littered with cases where one person thought they were sending at the same time, the other person didn't, and everyone ended up angry.

I just checked although the trading rules don't specifically say so, the trading guidelines do: whoever has lower feedback sends first in the absence of an agreement to the contrary. I agree, though, that it never hurts to spell out exactly what one's expectations are.

I absolutely agree with everything you said, Helios. Thank you. :) My one suggestion would be to add a segment explaining trading up and trading down and how 1 $50 card does not equal 10 $5 cards etc. If that's been covered somewhere else and I just missed it then ignore me.

@Nighthawk- I will add something to mention that.

@PhyrexianLibrarian - I plan on elborating alittle more on that section. At the time I just wanted to get the majority of my ideas down and then go back and update.

@Kammikaze - I will make a mention to that as well.

Maybe include the convention of eternal cards vs standard cards as well...

billbollow wrote:

PhyrexianLibrarian wrote:

Helios52 wrote:- The unwritten rule is generally the person with the lower References or is new to the site sends first...

I think this should be pointed out and highlighted as something that both parties should agree on before a trade is accepted. The Bad Trade forum is littered with cases where one person thought they were sending at the same time, the other person didn't, and everyone ended up angry.

I just checked although the trading rules don't specifically say so, the trading guidelines do: whoever has lower feedback sends first in the absence of an agreement to the contrary. I agree, though, that it never hurts to spell out exactly what one's expectations are.

I'm in the middle of a trade negotiation right now. I have 260 positive trades, he has 26, and he does not want to send first.

This comes up all the time; everyone wants to make sure that their trade partner isn't going to rip them off, but no one wants to be treated as if they may rip someone off, so you get these weird Mexican standoffs where no one trusts each other.

I've honestly found the trading window (found on the homepage) to be next to useless. It's either people who I've exhausted my trading possibilities with, or people who haven't logged in in over a year.

Similarly, viewing the card and going to Tradelist is also terrible: there are 64(!) pages of people with Cavern of Souls listed on their tradelist. If I want to find one for trade, that's about 450(!) different profiles I need to open in new tabs to see if they've been active recently and they have an equitable trade. The only time I find this particular method to be useful is when the card is recently released and so only active traders have put it on their tradelist. If the card is two years old, then you'll spend forever trying to find a trader.

If you do want to do it this way, I've found that hovering over their icon for last activity time is usually slower for me than simply opening 21-28 tabs at once, and then ctrl-w'ing through them all at once. You can find last logged in times much easier that way. Ideally, it would sort by last login time instead of distance (seriously, it's one query change! c'mon!), but we have to deal with what we have to deal with.


How do I find active traders to trade with? I open up the finished trades of active traders and see who they have been trading with and open up all those users. At least then you know you're only looking at the trade binders of people who are actually interested in trading.

Also, even though I have 127 feedback myself, I will usually always cross-ship with somebody that has >25 feedback, especially if they have done significantly large trades in the past. If they're >10-15, I'll usually do smaller trades cross-shipped without a problem.

I mean, we all know how shifty I am (*grins*), but I probably wouldn't ship first anymore, even if they did have Paul_K levels of feedback. I didn't put in my time for nothing! :P

marumari wrote:I've honestly found the trading window (found on the homepage) to be next to useless. It's either people who I've exhausted my trading possibilities with, or people who haven't logged in in over a year.

Similarly, viewing the card and going to Tradelist is also terrible: there are 64(!) pages of people with Cavern of Souls listed on their tradelist. If I want to find one for trade, that's about 450(!) different profiles I need to open in new tabs to see if they've been active recently and they have an equitable trade. The only time I find this particular method to be useful is when the card is recently released and so only active traders have put it on their tradelist. If the card is two years old, then you'll spend forever trying to find a trader.

If you do want to do it this way, I've found that hovering over their icon for last activity time is usually slower for me than simply opening 21-28 tabs at once, and then ctrl-w'ing through them all at once. You can find last logged in times much easier that way. Ideally, it would sort by last login time instead of distance (seriously, it's one query change! c'mon!), but we have to deal with what we have to deal with.


How do I find active traders to trade with? I open up the finished trades of active traders and see who they have been trading with and open up all those users. At least then you know you're only looking at the trade binders of people who are actually interested in trading.

BAH HA! Now your on to something. I do that as well but I didnt think to add it. Consider your advice included :)

Paul_K wrote:

Kammikaze wrote:My one suggestion would be to add a segment explaining trading up and trading down and how 1 $50 card does not equal 10 $5 cards etc. If that's been covered somewhere else and I just missed it then ignore me.

I vehemently disagree with this suggestion. I have and will trade a $50 card for 10 $5 cards. I don't always do it but I also don't always not do it. This is a trader's perogative. I don't feel there should be behaviorial guidlines as to individual desires. The end users may communicate in the chatbox if the trade is to their liking or not.

In short: This is part of communication not a rule.

I agree that it should be mentioned more than enforced.

Great suggestions, I am kinda with Paul K on the eternal vs standard or 50 vs 10, its traders choice and more of a market/demand issue more than an etiquette thing.

Honestly i have given up on both the front page or searching through by card, are there any plans for filtering out badly inactive accounts?

Paul_K wrote:

Kammikaze wrote:My one suggestion would be to add a segment explaining trading up and trading down and how 1 $50 card does not equal 10 $5 cards etc. If that's been covered somewhere else and I just missed it then ignore me.

I vehemently disagree with this suggestion. I have and will trade a $50 card for 10 $5 cards. I don't always do it but I also don't always not do it. This is a trader's perogative. I don't feel there should be behaviorial guidlines as to individual desires. The end users may communicate in the chatbox if the trade is to their liking or not.

In short: This is part of communication not a rule.

I wasn't trying to say that this should be a rule that everyone needs to obey, just a general guideline that is more relevant than not in my opinion.

mbknight wrote:Great suggestions, I am kinda with Paul K on the eternal vs standard or 50 vs 10, its traders choice and more of a market/demand issue more than an etiquette thing.

Honestly i have given up on both the front page or searching through by card, are there any plans for filtering out badly inactive accounts?

Yes, it's coming in early 2013, if I recall the official announcements.

(yes, that is the right year)

Not really upset or anything but its kinda late 2013 now, right?

mbknight wrote:Not really upset or anything but its kinda late 2013 now, right?

Zing

mbknight wrote:Not really upset or anything but its kinda late 2013 now, right?

Yeah, I noticed that too. :\

re: lower FB sends first.

I think this shouldn't apply after a certain threshold (50 trades? 80? 100?). It's silly to retain "seniority" if both sides are proven to be active, honest traders.


re: cross-format.

As Paul said, communication issue. If this matters to you, say it at the start of the trade or put it in your profile. For some cards, it's not even worth worrying about and putting a blanket restriction on this just confuses newbies that read the guideline.


re: "trading down".

For the record, I hate this term. It's unclear and everyone has varying definitions for it and therefore varying consequences in terms of a trade. It's also another communication thing. If it matters to you, say something at the start of the trade/put it in profile. Otherwise, don't confuse newbies.

I used to send same time with ppl higher than ten (as i was taught by marumari) but then one of my few bad trades involved a 30 FB lying to me so everyone might have a different idea of a fair threshold, although typically 40ish higher i still try to send same time.

Also what is everyone's idea of 'trading down', I agree with a $50 for a bunch of ones is a huge trade down, but is a 50 for 2 $25's the same? five $10's? Plus some people dont want to play eternal so if they are happy to trade them for standard, why do other people make an issue of it? I have gotten out of legacy and traded almost everything i had for modern stuff, while both eternal, i would argue its not that much of a diff from trading modern for standard. modern can be reprinted, so its bound to lose value (not like standard) but I ONLY play modern so was happy to do it.

I don't understand the being forced to send first because someone has a bunch more trades than a person. I didn't even have a trade yet and the person I negotiated with sent first. We are doing an almost 100$ deal. someone can just fluff their trades by sending out a bunch of dollar cards back and forth until they get 30 feedback then decide they are going to badtrade a tarmogoyf and split. I realize this will stop alot of my deals but I won't ever send first. I know i'm trustworthy, other people not so much.

This site needs to do a little better at letting you know if you are trading with an established adult or a 16 year old. You don't even know people's ages or anything. I find it weird that where you can trade 100$'s os dollars of cards you don't even have a person DOB.

im for this being a sticky post!!

Coming from having done online trading for a good duration of time with D&D Minis over at maxminis (not even sure if it survived after the database issue or not, but whatever), I feel that sending first is a good way to go about things.

Why?

Because people who are "unestablished" are more likely to cause issues or result in a bad trade, especially when they can just claim they're trading something but do not actually have it.

I have never had a bad trade there, and so far things are going well here. If you communicate well, one should not feel insulted just because they're asked to send first when someone has several trades.

In some instances, people have just sent to me even though I have said I could not or will not send until a certain date. Were they worried? Probably a bit, but it's nice to know that people will send.

I, like others on here I'm sure, want to get my cards as fast as possible since I'm trading to be able to get cards I want to use immediately (or sometimes for other trades). If I send and they send same day, then we both get our cards faster and are happier.

End result, if asked to send first, it's more a security thing--and could still result in a bad trade, but it is less likely. Do not feel insulted. If you don't want to send first, then don't do the trade; no one is forcing you. Just communicate and everything will flow nicer for yourself and the people you trade with.

morph66 wrote:I know i'm trustworthy, other people not so much.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are.

Online trading is all about your rep. People with higher reps have more to lose with pulling fraudulent trades, namely the ability to trade with that community. It should be a given that people with nothing to lose (i.e. new members) have to prove themselves to be a contributing member of the community first. The feedback system isn't perfect and can be gamed so there is no clear-cut solution to prevent any fraud. The only thing available is deterrence due to the threat of losing access to trading with that community.

The discussion is at what point has a person sufficiently proven to be a contributing member of the community such that "seniority" is irrelevant in trading?