I play a Zedruu EDH deck very frequently and have a question about Chained to the Rocks.
If I use Chained to the Rocks, can I then donate the enchantment to someone without the creature coming back? Someone said as soon as I donate Chained, the enchantment no longer has a valid target and the creature comes back. Same question for if I donate the mountain instead.

Thanks guys! I await some replys!

Mowza2k2 wrote:I play a Zedruu EDH deck very frequently and have a question about Chained to the Rocks.
If I use Chained to the Rocks, can I then donate the enchantment to someone without the creature coming back? Someone said as soon as I donate Chained, the enchantment no longer has a valid target and the creature comes back. Same question for if I donate the mountain instead.

Thanks guys! I await some replys!

Chained to the Rocks never leaves the battlefield when you donate it. Only control of the permanent changes. Therefore the leaves the battlefield ability is not triggered. The same is true of donating the mountain.

edit:
Oh wait, it says to enchant a mountain you control. Sorry, I was wrong, read this:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/faq/ths

That's what I thought. But the guy that told me is a pretty heavy Magic player and so I couldn't dismiss him completely until I got some more answers on it.
Thanks.

The issue with Chained to the Rocks here is the text on the card itself "Enchant Mountain you control." This means that whomever controls Chained to the Rocks must also control the mountain it is enchanting. If you do not meet that criteria when you check state-based actions, it falls off (sort of like giving a creature protection from white causes Pacifism to fall off, or, more pointedly, how pumping a creature's power causes Runner's Bane to fall off).

Now, can you use this for some permanent exiling shenanigans like people have done with Sundial of the Infinite and whatnot? My initial reaction would be no, as any modification of ownership of either Chained or the Mountain would shift and the spell would be invalid immediately (not going on the stack). My understanding, and I'm not a judge by any means, is that as the stack resolves, each layer progresses through player priority and the checking of state-based effects before any effects would resolve.

In other words, if you would cast Chained and exile a creature on its ETB trigger, and then use Zedruu to swap ownership of either Chained or the Mountain, the instant that ability resolves, Chained falls off and they get the creature back. Similarly, if you were to cast Chained and try to swap control of the mountain you targeted before it resolves, that's also a no-go, as it no longer has a valid target and it fizzles with nothing having ever been exiled.

So the tl;dr version - no, you cannot exile a creature permanently with Chained beyond just keeping it on your mountain and hoping they don't have any enchantment hate.

Sorry I updated my post, but I wasn't fast enough. Here's a quick run down from the link I posted.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/faq/ths

If the land Chained to the Rocks is enchanting stops being a Mountain or another player gains control of it, Chained to the Rocks will be put into its owner's graveyard when state-based actions are performed.

Chained to the Rocks's ability causes a zone change with a duration, a style of ability introduced in Magic 2014 that's somewhat reminiscent of older cards like Oblivion Ring. However, unlike Oblivion Ring, cards like Chained to the Rocks have a single ability that creates two one-shot effects: one that exiles the creature when the ability resolves, and another that returns the exiled card to the battlefield immediately after Chained to the Rocks leaves the battlefield.

If Chained to the Rocks leaves the battlefield before its triggered ability resolves, the target creature won't be exiled.

Auras attached to the exiled creature will be put into their owners' graveyards (unless they have bestow). Equipment attached to the exiled creature will become unattached and remain on the battlefield. Any counters on the exiled creature will cease to exist.

If a creature token is exiled, it ceases to exist. It won't be returned to the battlefield.

The exiled card returns to the battlefield immediately after Chained to the Rocks leaves the battlefield. Nothing happens between the two events, including state-based actions.

In a multiplayer game, if Chained to the Rocks's owner leaves the game, the exiled card will return to the battlefield. Because the one-shot effect that returns the card isn't an ability that goes on the stack, it won't cease to exist along with the leaving player's spells and abilities on the stack.

Dang, I was afraid of all that. Now here is another question then.
If I target their commander, it gets exiled, chances are they are choosing to put it in the command zone. Chained no longer has a target, will it remain on the battlefield? If it remains even after I get rid of their commander, and they have no reason to destroy it at that point, I can donate it and it will just start getting me cards and life while being completely harmless on the battlefield. Or, because it has to enchant a mountain I control, Chained will fall off. I like Chained but have no reason to keep it if I cannot use it in Zedruu. It is the only deck I ever see me using it in.

EDIT: I use Oblivion Ring like that all the time, once they have chosen to put their commander in their command zone o-ring just sits on the board all inconspicuous gaining me cards and life.

Mowza2k2 wrote:Dang, I was afraid of all that. Now here is another question then.
If I target their commander, it gets exiled, chances are they are choosing to put it in the command zone. Chained no longer has a target, will it remain on the battlefield? If it remains even after I get rid of their commander, and they have no reason to destroy it at that point, I can donate it and it will just start getting me cards and life while being completely harmless on the battlefield. Or, because it has to enchant a mountain I control, Chained will fall off. I like Chained but have no reason to keep it if I cannot use it in Zedruu. It is the only deck I ever see me using it in.

EDIT: I use Oblivion Ring like that all the time, once they have chosen to put their commander in their command zone o-ring just sits on the board all inconspicuous gaining me cards and life.

Yeah, I don't think it's going to be that useful to you. When you donate it, it would go to your graveyard. Consider Arrest, Pacifism or Defang instead if you are looking to target someone's general with it.

Wait, am I missing something? Why can't you donate Chained to the Rocks for Zedruu draw? It would still be enchanting your mountain, your opponent would just control it now.

555785620 wrote:Wait, am I missing something? Why can't you donate Chained to the Rocks for Zedruu draw? It would still be enchanting your mountain, your opponent would just control it now.

Because it says "Enchant Mountain you control". Both cards (the land and the Enchantment) would have to go under the opponent's control through the same effect to keep it from falling off, as it would fall off as a state based effect between multiple effects resolving. You'd need a spell or effect that gives up the land and the enchantment as part of the same spell/effect. State based effects aren't checked during the resolution of a spell, so if you switch multiple permanents under the same effect it would work. But switching one at a time, even if you stack the effects will not. Read the article I linked above. You can search it for "chained to the rocks".

You should use the new commander 2013 enchantment that turns the creature into an indestructible bug with no abilities instead.