outofstep wrote:I almost feel like delivery confirmation should be a requirement at this point, seriously. Enough with trying to get the cheapest shipping possible, especially if you're sending cards worth over $25. I don't care how poor you are. If you can afford to play Magic in the first place, then you can afford $3 for shipping of cards. If people are using DC, then there is none of the, "well, he said he sent it on the 7th, but I never got it, then he said he sent it on the 18th again..." bullshit. If you use DC, this is what you see on USPS.com:

Dispatched to Sort Facility
November 15, 2012, 6:20 pm WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Acceptance
November 15, 2012, 8:24 am WILMINGTON, DE 19801

It's accepted at the facility and then it's sent out. There is no issue of someone stringing you along with lies of sending it and not doing so. If they don't post a tracking number, they didn't send it. Then end.

Dude, it's cheaper than 3$ to send with Delivery Confirmation. Paypal Shipping is awesome. 1.62$ 1st class shipping and it comes with Delivery Confirmation attached. A friend that ships a lot turned me onto it. I used to drive down to the post office on my lunch break (Which would be 30ish minutes round trip) and pay 2.80$ at the kiosk. I can now print off the label (Paypal does everything) at home, tape it to the package and send it from my mail room at my work.

Such a time/money saver.

guyincorporated wrote:FYI - I also traded with Ichorclaw and his card didn't arrive for 2+ weeks. When I told him that we needed to resolve it, he immediately paypal'd me the amount I requested (equal to what I paid to buy the same card on ebay).

He did the right thing without me having to threaten, beg or argue, so let's not string him up just yet.

Also, his card did eventually show up. I think he just shipped way way later than he claimed to.

ya he offered me the same thing but with a scg gift card and he claims to have sent it and i never got an email

I have also traded with him, I had the same experience as a lot of people, he sent them just fine but they were significantly later than when they were marked as sent, I'm guessing there is some sort of an issue and I wouldn't sting them up, it's most likely an honest issue and they're not trying to screw anyone over. It is a little weird about the gift card tho, that should be instant so it just seems like a bad lie if it is one

outofstep wrote:I almost feel like delivery confirmation should be a requirement at this point, seriously. Enough with trying to get the cheapest shipping possible, especially if you're sending cards worth over $25. I don't care how poor you are. If you can afford to play Magic in the first place, then you can afford $3 for shipping of cards...

As I've tried to publicize in more than one thread, if you print your own shipping labels through PayPal, each and every one automatically includes delivery confirmation and [[i]they are cheaper than buying them at the USPS[/[i].

Postage for a few cards that was costing me about $2.80 at the USPS window now costs under $1.70 when I print via PayPal. The only challenge you may face is if you are shipping larger quantities of cards, as you'll need an accurate weight in ounces if shipping more than 3.0 oz. I have a little dietary scale here, but you could weigh your mailer at some grocery stores, or even at the post office. You could create a chart that lists how many cards and toploaders (plus your preferred mailer) adds up to a certain weight.

HikingStick wrote:

outofstep wrote:I almost feel like delivery confirmation should be a requirement at this point, seriously. Enough with trying to get the cheapest shipping possible, especially if you're sending cards worth over $25. I don't care how poor you are. If you can afford to play Magic in the first place, then you can afford $3 for shipping of cards...

As I've tried to publicize in more than one thread, if you print your own shipping labels through PayPal, each and every one automatically includes delivery confirmation and [[i]they are cheaper than buying them at the USPS[/[i].

Postage for a few cards that was costing me about $2.80 at the USPS window now costs under $1.70 when I print via PayPal. The only challenge you may face is if you are shipping larger quantities of cards, as you'll need an accurate weight in ounces if shipping more than 3.0 oz. I have a little dietary scale here, but you could weigh your mailer at some grocery stores, or even at the post office. You could create a chart that lists how many cards and toploaders (plus your preferred mailer) adds up to a certain weight.

For quick reference, I just mailed a 4inch by 7inch bubble mailer with two top loaders, two penny sleeves, seven cards, and a sheet of notebook paper and the weight was 1.43 oz. So it takes quite a bit to break 3 oz.

imsully2 wrote:I'm guessing there is some sort of an issue...

The information on his profile suggests as much. However, all said, simply maintaining open communications could have prevented this from escalating into a hot topic. Still, let it be a cautionary tale for the rest of us, and a reminder that:

1) Each trader is responsible for proving delivery to the recipient's address (remember to use delivery confirmation!).

2) Allow time for postal slowdowns (domestic shipping, 2-4 weeks). We're coming into the holiday season, when the postal service tends to get backlogged. Also remember that severe weather (e.g., Hurricane Sandy) and other factors (e.g., spring flooding) can affect delivery times as well.

3) If you, as a sender, experience any circumstances that affect your ability to ship on time or as discussed [hey, I had one this week where I marked them shipped on the way out the door in the morning, but forgot to drop them off at the post office], communicate with the recipient in the trade panel![/hey, I had one this week where I marked them shipped on the way out the door in the morning, but forgot to drop them off at the post office]

I've been more than patient with him and I don't feel the need to take it easy in him because he has done right in the past. He may not be a total deadbeat trader but his history shows he isn't reliable. Sure you might get your cards or money eventually but that doesn't make it right.

Later tonight I will be filing a complaint for mail fraud on him.

This is the form I will use:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/mailfraudcomplaint.aspx

I hope everyone else in this similar situation do the same. If you have any questions about filling out the form, I'll be more than happy to help after I fill it out myself.

shogan21 wrote:I've been more than patient with him and I don't feel the need to take it easy in him because he has done right in the past. He may not be a total deadbeat trader but his history shows he isn't reliable. Sure you might get your cards or money eventually but that doesn't make it right.

Later tonight I will be filing a complaint for mail fraud on him.

This is the form I will use:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/mailfraudcomplaint.aspx

I hope everyone else in this similar situation do the same. If you have any questions about filling out the form, I'll be more than happy to help after I fill it out myself.

I don't fault you at all. If everyone would report all such instances, it would be much easier for the postal service to properly investigate and make a determination regarding possible mail fraud. Without that pattern, individual claimants really don't stand much of a chance.

The mail fraud complaint has been filed. I used the link I posted above to do it. It took only about 10 minutes. I just tried to explain the situation with as many details and dates I could provide. I really hope the rest of you that are getting ripped off take the small amount of time to file a complaint. I'll continue to check in on this thread and post any news I might get from the USPS or ichorclaw.

Thanks.

shogan21 wrote:The mail fraud complaint has been filed... I really hope the rest of you that are getting ripped off take the small amount of time to file a complaint.
(emphasis added)

That's really the key. Unless every affected trader files a complaint, the USPS won't have enough evidence to show a pattern of fraudulent transactions.

Just FYI I have had the same issue. I actually ACCIDENTALY marked his trade complete (I had recieved 6 packages and was going through them) and then contacted him saying I hadn't actually received the card (I had 'received the card a scant 12 hours after he 'sent' it). He responded that that was OK and that it was on its way.

That was two weeks ago. Still no card. 8 bucks down the drain but hey, out of 66 trades that's not so poor.

bolerodefeu wrote:Just FYI I have had the same issue. I actually ACCIDENTALY marked his trade complete (I had recieved 6 packages and was going through them) and then contacted him saying I hadn't actually received the card (I had 'received the card a scant 12 hours after he 'sent' it). He responded that that was OK and that it was on its way.

That was two weeks ago. Still no card. 8 bucks down the drain but hey, out of 66 trades that's not so poor.

People need to get rolling on their mail fraud reports. From everything I've read in this post, it seems like the dude in question has plenty of time to set up trades and converse on the front end of trades, then he flakes out on sending his cards and is spotty with communication afterwards. If he isn't busted for mail fraud he's going to continue to do this to people and if he feels like he's taking too much heat on his current screen name, I'm sure he'll have no problem creating a new one under a different email address to do the same shit over and over.

Report him.

finished filing for mail fraud as well

shogan21 wrote:I've been more than patient with him and I don't feel the need to take it easy in him because he has done right in the past. He may not be a total deadbeat trader but his history shows he isn't reliable. Sure you might get your cards or money eventually but that doesn't make it right.

Later tonight I will be filing a complaint for mail fraud on him.

This is the form I will use:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/mailfraudcomplaint.aspx

I hope everyone else in this similar situation do the same. If you have any questions about filling out the form, I'll be more than happy to help after I fill it out myself.

Hey Shogan I made a trade with him and I live in Canada does this form work for both countries???

Asuran wrote:

shogan21 wrote:I've been more than patient with him and I don't feel the need to take it easy in him because he has done right in the past. He may not be a total deadbeat trader but his history shows he isn't reliable. Sure you might get your cards or money eventually but that doesn't make it right.

Later tonight I will be filing a complaint for mail fraud on him.

This is the form I will use:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/mailfraudcomplaint.aspx

I hope everyone else in this similar situation do the same. If you have any questions about filling out the form, I'll be more than happy to help after I fill it out myself.

Hey Shogan I made a trade with him and I live in Canada does this form work for both countries???

I believe so. When filling out your address it asks for State or Canadian Province. With that info, I think it is a safe assumption.

I wanted to update the thread that ichorclaw recently Paypalled me compensation for his cards that never arrived. I can't speak to anyone else's trades, but I hope you all manage to settle things.

LootPinata, can I ask when your trade was initially accepted? I'm just wondering if maybe he trying to resolve in the order they were made. Also, how was this transaction handled? How did you communicate? I see he hasn't been online here since the 15th. I'm just looking for any info on how to get this resolved. Stuff like this really bothers me. It makes me not want to trade online (even though I really enjoyed this site and had many successful trades).

Thanks for any info.

shogan21 wrote:LootPinata, can I ask when your trade was initially accepted? I'm just wondering if maybe he trying to resolve in the order they were made. Also, how was this transaction handled? How did you communicate? I see he hasn't been online here since the 15th. I'm just looking for any info on how to get this resolved. Stuff like this really bothers me. It makes me not want to trade online (even though I really enjoyed this site and had many successful trades).

Thanks for any info.

The trade was accepted on Oct. 14th, but to be honest I contacted him through another forum that we are both members of (one that I suppose he checks more often). I'm not sure what kind of options you have through here, sorry I can't help with more.

A large number of my outgoing shipments were stolen by a close friend. Working on getting these resolved in order from largest to smallest. I'll be able to take care of everyone by December 15.

jakehash: I e-mailed you the gift card twice and assumed you got it. I'll copy and paste the code to you shortly if you post a way to get in contact with you.

ichorclaw wrote:A large number of my outgoing shipments were stolen by a close friend. Working on getting these resolved in order from largest to smallest. I'll be able to take care of everyone by December 15.

jakehash: I e-mailed you the gift card twice and assumed you got it. I'll copy and paste the code to you shortly if you post a way to get in contact with you.

Don't understand that if you said it was outgoing and you asked me multiple times if I got them. And if you wanna give me the code post it in our previous trade or start up a new one with no card in it

Still have heard nothing

To me, this is a bit worrisome due to the following... Upon looking at Ichorclaw's profile there is absolutely NOTHING that jumps out at me as any sort of indicator of bad or even "iffy" trading history. All I see is "Feedback:+37 out of 38 completed mail trades" and the fact that he changed his status to read, "Family issues, no longer trading." I think this really illustrates that fact that we need to migrate towards a more detailed feedback system, one that's not just a simple top-level +/-1.

There should be ratings for how prompt someone is at sending out their cards, with a 5-star being the same/next day and a 1-star being a week later or... never.
There should be ratings for packaging, with a 5-star being in top-loaders in a bubble mailer and a 1-star being in a zip lock bag inside a regular envelop.
There should be ratings for communication, with 5-stars as all pertinent info provided and questions answered and 1-star being that you agreed on a trade then didn't hear from the guy again for 2-weeks.

These are the things I want to know when potentially trading with someone.

I (along with two other users) appear to be in a similar situation involving user AzoriusGuildmage. I've sent my cards to the guy months ago. I never received my cards and he hasn't been on since Oct. 12th.

Is there a particular way to get Sebi (or someone) to look into these issues?

outofstep wrote:To me, this is a bit worrisome due to the following... Upon looking at Ichorclaw's profile there is absolutely NOTHING that jumps out at me as any sort of indicator of bad or even "iffy" trading history. All I see is "Feedback:+37 out of 38 completed mail trades" and the fact that he changed his status to read, "Family issues, no longer trading." I think this really illustrates that fact that we need to migrate towards a more detailed feedback system, one that's not just a simple top-level +/-1.

There should be ratings for how prompt someone is at sending out their cards, with a 5-star being the same/next day and a 1-star being a week later or... never.
There should be ratings for packaging, with a 5-star being in top-loaders in a bubble mailer and a 1-star being in a zip lock bag inside a regular envelop.
There should be ratings for communication, with 5-stars as all pertinent info provided and questions answered and 1-star being that you agreed on a trade then didn't hear from the guy again for 2-weeks.

These are the things I want to know when potentially trading with someone.

That sounds alot like the ebay rating system :rolleyes:.

It could work if if the rating used was the avg score of the ratings was used...

outofstep wrote:To me, this is a bit worrisome due to the following... Upon looking at Ichorclaw's profile there is absolutely NOTHING that jumps out at me as any sort of indicator of bad or even "iffy" trading history. All I see is "Feedback:+37 out of 38 completed mail trades" and the fact that he changed his status to read, "Family issues, no longer trading." I think this really illustrates that fact that we need to migrate towards a more detailed feedback system, one that's not just a simple top-level +/-1.

There should be ratings for how prompt someone is at sending out their cards, with a 5-star being the same/next day and a 1-star being a week later or... never.
There should be ratings for packaging, with a 5-star being in top-loaders in a bubble mailer and a 1-star being in a zip lock bag inside a regular envelop.
There should be ratings for communication, with 5-stars as all pertinent info provided and questions answered and 1-star being that you agreed on a trade then didn't hear from the guy again for 2-weeks.

These are the things I want to know when potentially trading with someone.

Your first and third idea is good but the second isn't because for small trades it isn't worthwhile to be sending in bubble mailers due to the high costs of it.

skystar wrote:

outofstep wrote:To me, this is a bit worrisome due to the following... Upon looking at Ichorclaw's profile there is absolutely NOTHING that jumps out at me as any sort of indicator of bad or even "iffy" trading history. All I see is "Feedback:+37 out of 38 completed mail trades" and the fact that he changed his status to read, "Family issues, no longer trading." I think this really illustrates that fact that we need to migrate towards a more detailed feedback system, one that's not just a simple top-level +/-1.

There should be ratings for how prompt someone is at sending out their cards, with a 5-star being the same/next day and a 1-star being a week later or... never.
There should be ratings for packaging, with a 5-star being in top-loaders in a bubble mailer and a 1-star being in a zip lock bag inside a regular envelop.
There should be ratings for communication, with 5-stars as all pertinent info provided and questions answered and 1-star being that you agreed on a trade then didn't hear from the guy again for 2-weeks.

These are the things I want to know when potentially trading with someone.

Your first and third idea is good but the second isn't because for small trades it isn't worthwhile to be sending in bubble mailers due to the high costs of it.

I guess it would be implied that a good rating would be "Good packaging fitting of the scale of the trade" while a poor rating would be "Sending Workshops in a Ziploc Bag".

Emopizza wrote:I guess it would be implied that a good rating would be "Good packaging fitting of the scale of the trade" while a poor rating would be "Sending Workshops in a Ziploc Bag".

Yes, exactly that. So, sure, if you want to send $3-4 worth of cards in a regular envelop on the cheap, that's no big deal and still worth a 4-star rating. However, if you did the same thing with a Gaea's Cradle just because you're cheap and don't want to buck up the extra $2-3 for packaging and delivery confirmation, you get a 1-star... because you deserve it.

Emopizza wrote:I (along with two other users) appear to be in a similar situation involving user AzoriusGuildmage. I've sent my cards to the guy months ago. I never received my cards and he hasn't been on since Oct. 12th.

Is there a particular way to get Sebi (or someone) to look into these issues?

Send a message to support@deckbox.org, describe the scenario, and provide a link to the trade. The others should do the same.

If it has been months, and all attempts to communicate with the trader have failed, each of you should consider filing a mail fraud report with the USPS (the link appears elsewhere in this thread).

outofstep wrote:To me, this is a bit worrisome due to the following... Upon looking at Ichorclaw's profile there is absolutely NOTHING that jumps out at me as any sort of indicator of bad or even "iffy" trading history. All I see is "Feedback:+37 out of 38 completed mail trades" and the fact that he changed his status to read, "Family issues, no longer trading." I think this really illustrates that fact that we need to migrate towards a more detailed feedback system, one that's not just a simple top-level +/-1.

There should be ratings for how prompt someone is at sending out their cards, with a 5-star being the same/next day and a 1-star being a week later or... never.
There should be ratings for packaging, with a 5-star being in top-loaders in a bubble mailer and a 1-star being in a zip lock bag inside a regular envelop.
There should be ratings for communication, with 5-stars as all pertinent info provided and questions answered and 1-star being that you agreed on a trade then didn't hear from the guy again for 2-weeks.

These are the things I want to know when potentially trading with someone.

this ^