Topic: Post Rotation The Rock

I was hoping for some insight into thoughts and opinions on BGW standard. Some cards I personally think would fit the build:

Gods Willing
Thoughtseize
Elvish Mystic
Sylvan Caryatid
Voice of Resurgence
Gleecmane Lion
Scavenging Ooze
Abrupt Decay
Cartel Aristocrat
Selesnya Charm
Golgari Charm
Putrefy
Advent of the Wurm
Desecration Demon
Erebos, God of the Dead
Spear of Heliod
Hero's Downfall
Reaper of the Wild
Archangel of Thune
Obzedat
Gaze of Granite

I really like the synergy between Cartel Aristocrat and Reaper of the Wild. I want to focus on abusing the privilege to scry aggressively, and then use Erebos to draw when necessary (especially if multiple triggers ensue)

http://deckbox.org/sets/476166

^^ Cards already in Standard and the counts they might see in the build

Last edited by Profanity (2013-09-12 12:21:36)

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

I think post-rotation three color builds are going to be harder to operate given the departure of the checklands (and the continued presence of Burning Earth in red sideboards).  Personally I'm looking to build simple G/B with an emphasis on Reaper of the Wild, Desecration Demon, and things of that nature.  Ramping into a rather large Gaze of Granite with 1 or more Reapers out will essentially turn into a tutor effect, while also maintaining some serious board presence.

That being said, even mono-black control is looking more and more promising every day.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

I'm with Ty 100%, I was brewing lists in my head, and finally just decided on a GB list.  It's tempting to try and splash white or red, but for one the mana base isn't completely fixed yet and it's slower. For two, they gave black a better dreadbore and a decent sweeper in gaze (although mana intensive).  If the format slows down a notch like we think it will then some of the bigger creatures could be good.  I'm looking at the new mythic gorgon, she's a beater and a sweeper all in one package.  Seems pretty tidy to me.  Black retains a lot from the current block and gains things like thoughtseize.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

So not even when we have all 10 Scry lands you think we'll see efficient 3-color. That's sad hmm well, I love Nic Fit, and the concept of Nic Gorgons seems interesting enough. Should I perhaps focus on creatures with effective regeneration like Lotleth Troll? And with the fact I can run so much spot removal, is Grim Reaper a possible side-tech?

I wish I was just willing to play aggro. It's just not my nature. Although I'm pissed RDW gets Magma Jet

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Almost forgot to ask too. If late game is more applicable now, is Deadbridge Chant a possible finisher?

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Well, IDK if 3 color is out, but it's looking more and more like you don't really have a reason to go 3 color.  JUND is jund because the mana base is accessible and there are fantastic cards in those 3 colors that synergy really well that are splash-able. 

1) the mana base is slowing down if you go 3 color
2) the manabase is incomplete now
3) Cards are less splash-able, lots of GGx / BBx / RRx

Also we just don't know how things will shape up.  It's all speculation.  2 Color is a "safer" bet than 3 color to start. 

Deadbridge chant is okay.  Scavenging ooze is still a thing, and deadbridge still cost 6 and doesn't do anything until the next turn.  Those are drawbacks, but  I really don't know for sure.  It was never a finisher though.  It just gets you extra value from the yard.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Yeah, we do have lots of hard mana coming along. Until we get more soft spells and a complete scry land cycle I suppose things are messy. My ability to speculate Standard is admittedly weak. I was strictly Modern and some Legacy until now. I want to get into tier Standard play because competition is muh more accessible for the format.

What's the thoughts on Hythonia? I know you mentioned he has a nice sweeper that will end games but is that too mana intensive? Also, I'm having a hard time judging Whip of Erebos and Erebos, god of the dead. An indestructible Draw enchantment that kills the gain off S-Rev seems great, but is the draw worth the cost outside of desperate situations? And is the reanimate on on the whip a playable ability at all?

Last edited by Profanity (2013-09-12 09:09:13)

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Well, this is just my $.02.  Don't take this for gospel on the cards we don't know how they'll work out.

I like the idea of Hythonia, she's a 4/6 deathtouch for 6, which isn't terribly great by herself, but the ability to become a 7/9 at the same time she wipes the board puts a pretty decent threat out there. She really has to be answered when you play her and with the lack of black wipes right now (except for gaze of granite).  *shrug* she seems playable.  I think it's worth testing out.

People are talking about the whip like it can make reanimator a thing again.  I don't agree with that, it's more like a repeatable act of treason.  Life link is good, but IDK, if it;s good enough to include over other cards.  As far as the god of the undead himself, he can "potentially" be a beater, but it takes a minimum of 2 other heavy black permanents to activate him.  The fact that opponents can't gain life isn't enough reason to play him on his own.  The main ability is the card draw, which to me is out classed by Read the Bones and Underworld connections.  I don't think I'll be picking him up right away.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

No worries, I'm just really open to criticisms and discussion since this will be my first attempts at Type 2 competition. I'm with you on the whip. I don't see the upside at all. As for Erebos I agree underworld is better draw, but possibly in the board to lessen the power of revelation.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

really, to beat revelation, you want duress and thoughtseize *shrug*  a good control deck doesn't win off the back of their life total it's the card draw you have to shut down.

This is a list i'm thinking about atm. 

I, think I want underworld connections maindeck because I'm trying to play off the devotion mechanic a little with the merchant, but at the same time I don't want to gaze for 3 and blow it up. Not sure yet.
   
Qty Name CMC
Creatures
3 Scavenging Ooze G1
4 Lifebane Zombie BB1
3 Desecration Demon BB2
3 Reaper of the Wilds BG2
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel BB3
2 Hythonia the Cruel BB4
   
Instants
1 Abrupt Decay BG
1 Doom Blade B1
2 Hero's Downfall BB1
2 Putrefy BG1
1 Devour Flesh B1
   
   
Sorcery
3 Read the Bones B2
2 Gaze of Granite BBGX
2 Thoughtseize B
2 Rescue from the Underworld B4
   
Lands
6 Forest   
4 Overgrown Tomb   
2 Mutavault   
2 Golgari Guildgate   
11 Swamp   
   
Sideboard
1 Gaze of Granite BBGX
2 Thoughtseize BBGX
1 Abrupt Decay BG
1 Doom Blade B1
1 Hero's Downfall BB1
2 Golgari Charm BG
2 Underworld Connections BB1
1 Devour Flesh B1
2 Vraska BG3
2 Duress B

Last edited by elpablo (2013-09-12 14:52:18)

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Do you still see Lifebane as a must 4-of? I've been unsure about that. As you saw, my list has been more committed to the "Nic fit" as I have so named it

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

We're still looking at some decent white and green creatures (don't forget multicolor RG/BW still counts) so you have obzedat, bloodbaron, ashen rider, the new cyclops, Scooze, GW hexproof, angels, etc.  Still lots of good targets and he's a 3 atk evasive beater, that can trade up pretty well.  He also provides knowledge and knowing is half the battle.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Yeah I suppose. Plus at a 3 I might still be able to fit the sweeper below him, and the 3-spot is pretty soft compared to 2 and 4

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

I'm toying with the idea of running a couple Altar's Reaps. I think they make a nice upside for mana dorks that are no longer needed, and can serve as a sort of brainstorm when combined with Reaper of the Wilds

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

That's probably okay, as long as your opponent doesn't play any spells tongue

let me explain.  Zapping elves is a valid strategy it denies your opponent mana, invalidates the turn in which they played the dork etc... or if they play a board wipe you may not get the chance.  Altars reap is cheap, it's fast and it nets 2 cards, which is great in theory, but expecting to have a mana dork on the board when you play it isn't a good plan and you really don't want to have to sac your board stabilizing creatures.

What if you come up against a mirror?  someone running desecration demon, or something that forces you to sac?  wouldn't he dork be better for that than wasting one of your big guys? 

In general cards that depend on other cards to work will be difficult to play and when there are stable, stand alone cards like Read the Bones, why play something that could be situationally bad?

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Is Read the Bones really that good for the mana? Maybe I'm spoiled from too much Legacy/Modern. Curves are also really different in Standard >_<

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

it is, it's really that good.   smile

think about it, think twice was a staple in standard for blue decks ever since it came out.  It's U1, draw a card, instant, flash back for U2.  that's UU3 to draw 2 cards, and it was great, people are sorry to see it go.  The fact that it's instant helps a lot.

Divination is borderline playable, but really doesn't cut the mustard for blue constructed at U2, sorcery speed draw 2. 

Black isn't really known for it's card advantage so, Sign in blood has been playable for black for a while now.  draw 2, lose 2, for BB. 

Read the bones is, easier to cast B2, sorcery speed, but you scry 2, draw 2, and lose 2.  You potentially can get 4 cards down in your deck off one card. that's pretty decent value.

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

Oh I kept thinking it was 3B for some reason! Derp a derp

Re: Post Rotation The Rock

The alternative that's starting to see a lot more constructed play is Underworld Connections.  Many people doubted it would be useful as it's three mana and doesn't actually net you a card until you can tap the land again to draw the card, but the repeated instances of card advantage is undeniable.  That and enchantment and land removal are considerably less frequent than creature removal.  As elpablo says, you could cast Altar's Reap on a mana dork to draw cards, they can Shock the mana dork at instant speed, putting theirs on top of the stack and meaning when time comes for the reap to resolve... no dork to sack.  With the Connections, you're far more likely to have success drawing cards for turns and turns and turns.