Topic: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

Hi guys,

This is my first deck and I'm looking to perfect it.  Granted, a lot of people seem to slant towards vampires but I figured with a creature type I could have a good basis to build off of.  Here's what I've got:

http://deckbox.org/sets/314371

In a day or two I'll be substituting something in there for a Sorin planeswalker as well as a couple stab wounds and possibly a few more Curse of the Pierced Hearts.  Any suggestions to make the deck work better together?

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

First a few questions:

1) I'm guessing you're looking to keep this standard legal?  If not, what format(s) are you looking to play?

2) Is this for casual play or are you hoping to take it to FNM to be competitive?

3) Do you have any idea how much you'd be willing to spend to make it more competitive?

The reason for the questions is to get a better sense of what sorts of suggestions would and would not be useful here.

Some more general observations/suggestions:

1) Try to avoid a lot of 1-off cards if at all possible.  I know the challenge of getting multiples of some of the higher value cards can be daunting, especially for a newer player, but the hallmarks of good, competitive decks are versatility and, most importantly, consistency.

2) Regardless of which way you decide to go with this, if you're using vampires as your main creature type, I would suggest focusing in on them more exclusively.  The idea is to either go major synergy (vampires and vampire modifiers) or some power combos. 

To this end, Stromkirk Captain is a relatively cheap, but very useful option - paired with Vampire Nighthawk and you're likely in a very good position.

I have a R/B vampire build at http://deckbox.org/sets/279257.  It's not the best build in the world, but I did manage to finish 3rd at my LGS for a FNM with it... feel free to use it as a starting point if you really want to go all in on the vampires.

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

Thanks for the response!

I have already made some purchases online to focus this as a vampire deck, modifications to follow, but here are my answers:

1 - Standard legal would be best
2 - Trying to compete in FNM more often
3 - No price limit, willing to build over time

I've got Stromkirk Nobles coming in the mail today, as well as a Sorin planeswalker to compliment things and Falkenrath Marauders as well.  My biggest issue seems to be I need more diversity in land, which I would assume would be Blood Crypt or Dragonskull Summit to supplant things.  I also like Cathedral of War and Hellion Crucible, although I'm not sure they're needed here.  I do know I'd like to integrate my Vexing Devils (2) into the deck on my next modification.  I totally agree with your idea to simplify the deck with one creature type, and toyed with the notion of adding a Stuffy Doll to boost some of the vampires like Havengul and Stromkirk Noble once I have it.  Obviously there are a few ways to do what I'd like to do here but I appreciate the input!  Any other suggestions are welcome.

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

My best suggestion is to trim your deck into the theme you are going for. Your creature selection is a little everywhere. That is fine but not that tuned for the theme and can lead to problems in mid-game play.

Seems like majority of your cards are dealing with damage per creature death. Great theme. Also with the pumping of certain creatures that dealt direct damage. Another good theme. They can work hand-in-hand. But some of your creatures are way out of these ranges.

I am not sure which direction you are going, just suggesting that you concentrate on the themes you are working on and centralize it.

Last edited by mrturk1001 (2013-02-18 18:00:08)

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

Okay...

Going standard legal is good.  But that means the only legal Sorin you could use is Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, which would require you to splash white to even play him.  There are numerous options to run with though outside of him.  If you're wanting Planeswalker power, sadly R/B isn't sitting on anything THAT substantial (outside of Liliana of the Veil).

If you're trying to compete in FNMs, you'll definitely need to refine the list to drop a LOT of the 1-offs. 

Ideally your one-drops should include Stromkirk Noble and Pillar of Flame.  If you're wanting to go more aggro, then you can add Vexing Devil or, the more likely to have 4x of would be, Rakdos Cackler or Reckless Waif.  None of the other three options at the one drop help with the flavor or really fit the overall scheme, but if you're trying to aggro it out, they work.  Alternately, Legion Loyalist could prove useful in later game scenarios.

At the two drop, I've found the most useful vampire is Blood Artist.  It makes opponents hesitant to engage in combat or otherwise use removal until it's off the board.  This can be REALLY useful if you focus a lot on removal, as every creature to hit the yard is essentially an extort trigger.  When paired with Stromkirk Captain, the artist can at least be a little blocker and, in some circumstances, can actually be pretty good in combat (typically if you drop Vampiric Fury) - there isn't much out there as satisfying as blocking a Geist of Saint Traft with a Blood Artist and killing the GoST.  Other items at the two drop should be more removal based - Searing Spear, Ultimate Price, Mizzium Mortars, Dreadbore, Devour Flesh, etc.  Vampiric Fury is another trick to have at the two-spot that most people wouldn't expect.

At the three drop, the only two vampires worth anything are Vampire Nighthawk and Stromkirk Captain.  Ideally you can be playing multiples of both as a pumped Nighthawk with first strike will likely win ANY combat (hooray first strike and deathtouch).  Other than that, you could splash the odd removal like Murder, but odds are you have their creatures pretty well covered with your two drop removal spells.  However, I would advise Rolling Temblor in the sideboard to deal with hexproof stuff - that or Glaring Spotlight.

At the four drop is where your wallet is likely to take a hit, as both Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat are quite expensive to pick up.  You'll see in my build that I use one Olivia and a few Bloodline Keepers.  I can see the inclination toward Vampire Nocturnus, but I would argue he actually ends up telegraphing your plays to the opponent.  They get to see your top card, so in the event you're top-decked, they can play around whatever you end up drawing.

Realistically, I wouldn't aim for anything higher than a four drop.  One of the strengths/weaknesses of vampires is that there really isn't anything at more than the 4-drop that you'll want to be hitting.  It's better to drop a Nighthawk/Captain and a Blood Artist/removal than anything you would for five.

For the sorceries/instants, see the ones I listed above.  You'll want removal and Sign in Blood - as getting those added few cards can be huge.  In the sideboard Act of Treason and Bloodthrone Vampire make a convenient to take the opponent's creature, hit them with it, and then sack it before it returns to their control.  But this is hardly something you want in the mainboard to use every game.

I'd actually suggest dropping almost all the enchantments.  Seldom will you really want to use one as they create easy opportunities for the opponent to hit you 2-for-1 style.  Perhaps some Stab Wounds or Dead Weights to give some removal options, or perhaps an added few damage.

For the lands, you're spot on that Dragonskull Summit and Blood Crypt are pretty much a necessity.  I'd also suggest trying to pick up 2-3x Cavern of Souls.  You can name 'vampire' and it does the mana fixing AND prevents counters against your creatures.  Lastly, I've had some success with Rogue's Passage paired with Stromkirk Noble in late game situations to ensure it can get a few hits in and grow.

Anyway, obviously this isn't the only way to build it, but I've had some pretty good results with my build.  It's not prohibitively expensive and will lose to the upper echelon decks, but I've enjoyed the flavor of it.

Good luck building and playing it.

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

I had a thought about using curses to my advantage alongside the vamps.  I'm finding that in a few non-listed decks I have that are either black red or white red, Curse of the Pierced Heart does wonders.  I like your logic though.  I also hadn't considered that issue with Sorin about the splash of white.  You also bring up solid points regarding the Rakdos Cackler as having that in the deck with Unleash could really help me out.  I'll re-post the deck with some tweaking and let you know how it turns out!

Re: Red/Black Vampires (First Deck)

Figured I'd repost my first round of revisions.  I have a playset of Stromkirk Captains coming as well as some Stromkirk Nobles.  I've kept Vampire Nocturnus because despite the tradeoff of having my top card revealed the damage it's doing is very impressive.  The effects of the Rakish Heirs are quite something as well, since I'm very frequently having two or three out on the board at once, stacking the effects.  They really help my Vampire Nighthawk, especially around 4-6 drop.  I'm waiting for my Olivia Voldaren to come in the mail, which will be replacing the Nocturnus in all likelihood.  Still working on replacing those lands, but I'm finding on some rounds the Evolving Wilds are helping quite a bit when I've got 2-3 of one color and not enough of the other, but otherwise the deck is working well.  I threw in the Boros Reckoners to see what they'll do, and so far in 5 rounds they've come out twice, once getting destroyed with a Cancel instantly and another time getting buffed out as a blocker, which did a lot of damage to my opponents.  Planning on keeping the Reckoners in all likelihood just because I like the card so much.

Here are the revisions:

http://deckbox.org/sets/314371