Topic: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Hello there, as the title state, I would like members here to help me check if my deck I'm building is any good.

http://deckbox.org/sets/128412(Lazy to type out the entire thing >.>)

Please give your opinion either by commenting here or the deck itself.

Thanks,
Archylte

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-24 01:14:13)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

If you have access to them, this deck could use Inexorable Tide and Decimator Web. I've had some fun with those cards.

http://deckbox.org/mtg/Inexorable%20Tide
http://deckbox.org/mtg/Decimator%20Web

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Inexorable Tide seems much more important to me, since the point of my deck is to try to 10 poison counters as fast as possible before you ran out of control cards.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Mono Black Infect has been a pretty solid build in recent times.  Here is a link to a decent version; http://deckbox.org/sets/98411.  I like most of this build but would make the following changes:
-2 Nihil Spellbomb
-2 Phyrexian Vatmother
-1 Distress
-2 Contagion Clasp

+3 Whispering Specter
+2 Trigon of Rage
+2 Contagion Engine

Mainly these changes are to enhance the decks agressive capabilities.  Phyrexian Vatmother looks good on paper but it doesn't fly so it just gets blocked all the time.  Also, popping the Whispering Specter to clear out your opponents hand is the win in many cases.  The Contagion Engine for Contagion Clasp swap brings mass removal and double proliferate to the deck while lightening the crowded 2-mana slot. 

If you were looking to stay closer to your current build then I would at least recommend the following changes:

-4 Plague Myr
-4 Reaper of Sheoldred
-4 Mana Leak
-2 Steady Progress
-1 Grimoire of the Dead
-1 Venser's Journal
-1 Dissipation Field
-1 Nephalia Drownyard
-1 Swamp

+2 Blighted Agent
+2 Plague Stinger
+2 Corrupted Resolve
+4 Thrummingbird
+2 Contagion Engine
+4 Silver-inlaid Dagger
+3 Island

The changes are meant to focus the deck on the fast beatdown strategy and increase the amount of evasion in the deck to 13 sources (up from 5).  The equipment will make the evasion all the more deadly and help provide a respectable clock.  Most of the cards are already in your inventory save a few that will be easy to acquire if you choose to go this route.  Lastly, I didn't add it because they are expensive but if you can get you hands on Inkmoth Nexus', Drowned Catacombs or Darkslick Shores it would help the deck quite a bit.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Thanks for the reply @Tawnos
I'll look into that, I'll still be keeping Nephalia Drownyard
See if that works.

Here are a few things however,
I find Reaper of Sheoldred rather useful in blocking, maybe i can improvise 2 of these inside for something else?

As for card limits, is there anyway to reduce it down to below or at 64?
Updated, reduced deck size to 64, check again and see if its alright.
Check the Notes for changes smile

If the point of Thrummingbird is to combo with Silver-inlaid Dagger and Contagion Engine, then I suppose its possible to swap out 2 Plague Stinger or Phyrexian Crusader for 2 Thrummingbird or maybe for 2 Silver-inlaid Dagger (as of new update)

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-07 06:23:59)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

If you want to keep it Standard legal, throw some of these in Mutagenic Growth. THey can go a long way towards pushing through the extra poison counters.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Im pretty sure the deck is UB @IronGuardian, opinion invalid sad

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

you can play mutagenic growth in any colored deck because of the phyrexian mana. It can serve two purposes: push in those last point of infect damage, or take your guy out of burn range/flash blockers/kill a hard to deal with blocker fast.

But if you want to keep your deck infect control I would suggest you take out the Blightsteel Colossus from the sideboard, you wont have time to cast it. Then decide if you want a proliferate theme deck or not, if so add more proliferate + mass removal (like black sun's zenith).

But I suggest you do the following and see if you like the deck:
SB:
out Blightsteel Colossus
out 1-2 Reaper of Sheoldred (4 is too mutch)
out myr
less think twice (max 2 or 0)

move contagion engine to the side,
take out (or move to side)Inexorable Tide, cause if you play this and they play a titan, you are probably dead. Move one Tezzeret's Gambit to the sideboard. Change a Hand of the Praetors to a Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon. Also consider taking out 1-2 Cryptoplasm for extra land. Change one or two Corrupted Resolve with mana leak/negate for consistency. Also because of the drawback of doom blade, change one to Go for the Throat.
the Thrummingbird is a waste of space, because it wont deal infect and the proliferate is not that significant (note if you want a proliferate deck, make one.. this is not) also it does not combo well with anything (not the dager, it will just do 3 damage and proliferate once, neither with the engine, use tezz's gambit). Instead of them add 2 bounce spells likeVapor Snag, Silent Departure (can be used twice) or Disperse. Disperse goes well against enemy plainswalkers or equipment. Also all the bounce spells can remove a pesky blocker for a turn or buy a turn against a titan so you can counter it. Also copying something with the Cryptoplasm than bouncing the original (like a titan) than attack, this can win you the game on its own.

Also consider Phantasmal Image instead of the cryptoplasm, it is easier to cast and enters the battlefield as the copy, you don't have to wait a turn to make it.

Add some (2)Black Sun's Zenith to the side or Tribute to Hunger against the hexproof guys.


This will reduce the deck to a normal 60 card deck and make it more consistent.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

@Spoook
Didn't notice the phyrexian mana neutral
but Phantasmal image is just so damn expensive for a card :\
And again Skitheriyx is another of thoes pricy card, im trying to build something that's not that pricy and still useful, so i'll keep it to 4 hands of the praetors as for now.
And about Phyrexian Crusader, is it worth leaving it there? Since most of my creature cards have evasive means.

Edited with Spoook's Idea, did some modification to it. Mind checking again?
If adding Mutagenic Growth, any options on which card to replace with? I'm thinking of replacing 2 Cryptoplasm for 2 more Dagger, but Mutagenic Growth might be a considerable option as well.

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-07 09:38:00)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

I understand you have a budget.

Depending on the mana base (you could really use the other 3 dual lands sad ) I like 2-3 crusaders, depending on the match-up of course. Against a white but especially against red deck it is a beating (red has some to 0 ways to kill it) but only if your meta does have red or white players. I would put in 2 instead of 2 Cryptoplasm same cost but in most cases better (better on its own, or if there is nothing worthy to copy).

Also if your meta plays lot of artifact removal, you can try Darksteel Axe, but will loose the +1/0 for for the agent.

Also in the side you can try some discard cards like Distress or Despise, they will help you get some advantage, especially against control decks. Consider (after testing) Silent Departure instead of vapor snag, cause your opponent won't care about the life loss, and playing it from the graveyard later on when you have nothing to do, or twice with 6 mana can make the difference. Ofcourse loosing the instant speed can be a problem if the opponent is removal heavy, but testing can help you out.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

I tend to play with random players, so I don't really have a fixed meta game in mind, true enough that Phyrexian Crusader really deals alot against white/red decks (best if played both at the same time), but kind of really blockable against the others. So i need a general idea on weather if its worth keeping it.

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-07 10:21:26)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

In my opinion the crusader is good against the W/R matchup, and the Cryptoplasm is not. In the other match-ups they are both mediocre. So I would put 2/2 (and if you want your Cryptoplasm for the other matches, you can put 1-2 in the side). For example against red I would take out the 2 Cryptoplasm and put in the 2 Reaper of Sheoldred from the side, they can block and the crusader can atack/block as needed. But you need to make some playtests.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

I see, thanks for the info up till now.

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-07 12:04:39)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Anytime

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

How about 4 Silver-inlaid Dagger instead of Cryptoplasm?
And maybe removing some Hands of the Praetors for other equipments? Since the only real usage for them are the +1/+1 and the additional infect from summoing infect creatures, other then that, they're pretty mana costy.
Maybe Lashwrithe or Runechanter's Pike?

*You may ignore the one with the Hands of the Praetors, but just asking if its actually useful.

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-07 12:20:07)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Yeah, the phyrexian mana makes Mutagenic Growth playable in any colour, and can really help push through the last poison counters you need to win.


The Hands are good, but they're more medium/long game, where you want to be able to deal as much damage as quickly as possible. Maybe instead of runnign four of them, swap two out for more equipment or pump spells. As they don't have any evasion of their own, the Hands are more utility cards.

If you were playing green though you'd want to run four copies of Invigorate. They're excellent, as you can use their alternate casting cost with no drawbacks, as your opponants life doesn't matter. My borther had a blue/green infect deck that makes great use of Mytagenic Growth and Invigorate. With them, a single 1/1 unblockable infect creature can take out an opponant in two hits.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

A lot of good information floating around this thread; I am glad to see it.

Why all the Thrummingbird hate?  It's got proliferate which is arguably better than infect after the first poison counter has been applied.  In U/B infect it's essentially Plague Stinger 5-8 unless you have a Hand of the Praetors in play (more on that later).  Plus, the Thrummingbird can proliferate counters left by your other infect creatures.  It doesn't happen often but from time to time they will get blocked.

Also, I see the deck has shifted towards black as the majority color; cool.  It may then be worth dropping Cryptoplasm entirely as it is the only thing that requires UU in the entire deck.  That would then allow you to shift the mana base towards black even further since you'll only ever need 1 island.  Perhaps 7 islands (down from 10) and 16 swamps (up from 13).  This would also make it easier to run Victim of Night in place of Go for the Throat and Doom Blade; it's more likely to find a target.

My last recommendation would be to drop Hand of the Praetors altogether.  It may seem counter-intuitive but most of the time he will only help you "win more" when you're already winning.  I think you should strongly reconsider running 2x Contagion Engine but if you really don't want to then at least drop the Hand and add another copy of Vapor Snag and Silver-inlaid Dagger.  They are both too good to run just two-of in this build.

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Tested the deck as updated at [8 Feb 2012], seems to kill my enemies off as early as turn 3 ~ 4, maybe 2 if my hands are good.
If hands are bad, no creature comes out sad, needs to modify that abit...

About dropping Hands entirely, getting more vapor snag in the process... is it worth it?
Hands are more of utilities, that's true but the +1/+1 boost and extra poison counter when casting creature with infect, can push that final bit of poison off your opponent, so I'm thinking of leaving it back at 2

Last edited by Archylte (2012-02-10 02:30:43)

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

I think it's important to have a finisher, like you said.  Whether that is Hand of the Praetors, Contagion Engine or something else really depends on your meta.  It sounds like the deck is on the right track so all you can do now is keep playing with it and keep an eye on what works and what doesn't.  I wish you luck!

Re: U/B Infect (Opinion) <Venenatus Conplexus>

Hello again people.

I've edited quite a bit after the short break and I decided to come back to this deck.
Please check the deck again at the top of this post and check the 'Notes' to see what changes I've done in the past few weeks.
Or, maybe I'll just post it again at this reply
here