Topic: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

After not doing well at all with my vamp deck I put together a red/white deck with mostly new GTC stuff.  I think I submitted an idea for it last week, but today I put a temporary deck together and played in a tuesday night tournament tonight. 

I went 1-3 overall, however, I think the deck is a lot better than that suggests.  Each match I won at least one game, and the three games I lost I had one game where I was extremely mana starved. 

Now right now I see a couple of problems with the deck

1)  The mana base is bad, only 2 SF and 2 Slayer's Stronghold (which I'm considering dropping because I just don't like it).  This will of course be remedied soon, I have 4 Clifftop Retreat and 2 more Sacred Foundry on the way.  Is it worth it to add in 4 Boros Guildgate as well?

2)  The deck kind of has two strategies that don't necessarily line up. 

Strategy one involves getting the Boros Reckoners/Firemane Avengers/Frontline Medics out and attack with Battalion and doing a lot of damage while making my creatures           indestructible.

Strategy two involves a combo with Assemble the Legion, Foundry Champion, and Conjurer's Closet.  This obviously takes a while to set up, but I think its extremely potent if you can get that far. 

3)  I need to swap out my two drop creature.  I do not like Lightning Mauler that much, I mean yeah it gives everything haste which is good for a T3 Frontline Medic, but I just think its weak overall being only a 2/1.  I also think it could be beneficial to swap out Boros Elite for Legion Loyalist but I'm not 100% sold on that yet.

4)  Should I swap out my Firemane Avenger for Restoration Angel?  I can see the benefits of both.  But I'm leaning more towards staying with Firemane due to the synergy with the other Battalion mechanics with Firemane Avenger/Boros Elite/Frontline Medic.  Since I'm also running 4 Cloudshift the benefit of being able to flash in Restoration Angel to save something from an instant seems less valuable. 

Anyways thanks for the advice as always.


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Last edited by Speeker (2013-02-13 04:53:33)

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Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

Looking at the build as it currently stands, you're completely torn between playing an aggro build and something more in the mid-range.  I would suggest picking one or the other as it really will drive what cards should and should not be included and the answers to the concerns you raised.

If you're planning on going a more aggro direction:

1) The guildgates would be horrible.  You never want to hit a tapped land.

2) Drop Assemble the Legion and Foundry Champion.  Swap Pillar of Flame for Searing Spear.  You'll actually want MORE Lightning Maulers, Legion Loyalists, and most importantly Hellrider.  (Don't forget Skullcrack).  I would consider dropping Aurelia's Fury except for the idea that you could use it as if it were Temporal Mastery at the very start of your opponent's turn to limit them to creatures.  You would even potentially shave a Frontline Medic and Boros Charm. To be honest, you can look on TCGPlayer.com in the articles and see the "boros aggro" version of red deck wins to see how that build works out.

3) For two drops, there are a wealth of options.  I've seen Burning-Tree Emissary raise some eyebrows here, as it's essentially free and can pair with a Lightning Mauler on turn 2 to trigger the battalion on your 1-drops, and there's also the added bonus of attacking for 5-7 on turn 2.

4) Restoration Angel is a great option if you have ETB abilities.  In an aggro build, to be honest, it won't make much difference.  If anything, you would want the Firemane Avengers to zap blockers and the opponent.

ALTERNATE BUILD - more Mid-Range

1) The Guildgates are alright, but they're not ideal.  Once you have the other duals you really wouldn't need them though.

2) I'm not so sure that Foundry Champion is ideal (especially at that cost).  I'd still drop/hold Assemble the Legion to 1-2x at most.  You'll want to bring in at least one more Blind Obedience.  You can aim for other things in the 4-7 mana range.  Perhaps Angel of Serenity or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight would be of use.  I'd also consider Zealous Conscripts and Spark Trooper too.

3) In this strategy, good two drops include Fencing Ace, Elite Inquisitor, Ash Zealot, etc.  Look for better value on the creatures so that you'll win most engagements - whether it be first strike or something to that end.

4) Again, it's something of a toss-up between Resto and Firemane Avenger.  If you have ETB abilities like Kessig Malcontents, then Resto Angel it is.  But otherwise I can see where Firemane will end up paying more dividends based on the combat bonus - lifegain AND removal is a plus.  Given that you're running Cloudshifts to get more out of Aurelia, you don't need to worry about flickering things with Resto Angel.

Sorry to hear you didn't have any luck with the vampires, but it really is dependent on your local meta.  Good luck on this one, just remember, you always want to have at least the mana for Boros Charm as soon as your opponent can hit four mana - it's easy to forget it, over-reach, and end up getting blasted rather than having the charm to make things indestructible.

Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

I'm gonna go ahead and say that you need to pick one stragety, you're 100% correct above in what you've said, and I think that cutting the Assemble the Legion part is probably your best bet, I know that it can get sick but really when are you going to be able to pull it off? You're playing an extremely aggressive deck if you ignore the combo and I think aggro is the way to go, I will give advice in 3 tiers, #1 fairly inexpensive #2 putting some cash/trades into the deck #3 cost is not an issue

First off I'd say that Legion Loyalist is not a good choice, basically because it doesn't do anything unless there's battalion active and even then a 1/1 is nothing impressive.

#1 add searing spear, it's really good at punching holes in your opponent's defenses and really is able to kill almost every single important threat in standard at the moment aside from Geist and Restoration angel. I'd also use Boros Guildgate, the way that you're deck is set up you only have 1 1 mana creature, therefore there's a decent chance you won't be doing anything turn 1, it may seem counter-intuitive but if you look at standard at the moment the Rakdos deck is the most aggro deck in the format and it's usually using a full playset of rakdos guildgates, and usually getting your mana correct is more important than anything else. as far as 2-drops, Wojeck Halberders is a good option, they may not seem very impressive, but if you have battalion active they can eat a thragtusk and they sort of trade with one even if you don't have it. At this level you should cut the foundry champs, assemble the legions to SB, and cut cloudshift

#2 Keep the Spear and the Guildgates, but instead of adding Wojeck put in Precinct Captains and Ash Zealots, they can power through most opponents, I'd also add Silverblade Paladins, they can do so much work in an aggro deck, they make your smallest creatures into game-winning threats with little to no effort. Then add 1-2 Mizzium Motars to your SB, they're not really main deck material but if you're facing some sort of tokens they're awesome. At this point you should cut Slayer's Stronghold, they are one of the weakest of the utility lands (Not the worst but up there) the fact is that it should give first strike and since it doesn't it's pretty bad, and at this point you really need as much mana fixing as possible

#3 Keep everything from #2 accept cut the Motars for Bonfires, then bring in the heavy top-end from the Rakdos Aggro deck, Hellriders and Thundermaw Hellkites, if you get up to this level I'd recommend cutting the Firemane Avengers just because they don't really seem to do all that much for the deck

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Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

I agree with the fact that I need to go with one strategy.  I kind of like the novelty of the legion/closet/foundry champ combo however I'm not naive enough to think it would be viable in anything other than casual play.  I think obviously the best option will boros aggro.  I do want to avoid however, turning this into a mono red deck.  That doesn't seem near as interesting to me as red/white. 

I have a few questions though.

1) I don't think I quite understand the mechanics behind Shock Trooper.  I mean I get he has trample/haste/lifelink, but its only good for one turn, then hes kind of useless.  Am I missing something with him?

2) There are two conflicting opinions about the guildgates. I see both sides.    Maybe I will try it out with them in it at first then see what happens.

Again as always you guys give great help.

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Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

Great OP!

Speeker wrote:

1) I don't think I quite understand the mechanics behind Shock Trooper.  I mean I get he has trample/haste/lifelink, but its only good for one turn, then hes kind of useless.  Am I missing something with him?

2) There are two conflicting opinions about the guildgates. I see both sides.    Maybe I will try it out with them in it at first then see what happens.

Again as always you guys give great help.

To understand Spark Trooper you need to understand the joy of Ball Lightning, the original 6/1 hasty trampler. He was around in old-school mono-red lists as a very efficient beater. Thinking of it as "only good for one turn" is the wrong way to look at what is basically a burn spell. If you had a spell that said "1RRW: Deal 6 damage divided as target opponent chooses among that player and any creatures he or she controls. You gain 6 life.", you'd play it in a RW aggro deck, right? Well, that's what Spark Trooper is. The life gain won't always be relevant, but against another aggro deck (or especially another burn deck) that 6 life could make all the difference.

As for your questions...

1) Personally, I'm anti-Guildgate for the same reasons mentioned above. If your curve tops at 4 (and I think it should), you basically never want a land to come into play tapped. However, I would keep the Strongholds, as they let you maintain your tempo with anything you drop late-game.

2) I think the aggro strategy is WAY stronger in the current environment. There's no good mono-white sweeper, so if you want to play control you have to rely on wiping the board through damage, which isn't easy.

3) Ash Zealot is a solid 2-drop, but the other one to consider is Gore-House Chainwalker, since you likely won't be blocking anyways. Legion Loyalist is pretty good but you want to drop and immediately attack, which means you won't put him out on turn 1 anyways. Naya Humans are becoming popular enough that I'd look at Rakdos Cackler or Stromkirk Noble as a real 1-drop.

4) In this build, I'd definitely stick with Firemane Avenger or Hellrider in the 4-drop slot, and not have anything above 4 (not even a Thundermaw). That will let you get away with running 22-23 lands, which will make the deck feel really lean.

Cuts:
Aurelia, the Warleader
Foundry Champion
Cloudshift
Assemble the Legion
Blind Obedience

Additions:
Stromkirk Noble
Ash Zealot
Searing Spear
Legion Loyalist

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Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

Alright so I think I've finally got my main board where I want it to be.  Picked up 2 Thalia, 4 Champion of the Parish and 4 Silverblade Paladins.  That should really help out the speed of the deck.   Dropped all the gimmicky stuff like assemble the legion and what not.  So far I think this could be a fairly strong deck.

I need help with a sideboard though.  I know I have a few things in there that are decent for different options.  Traitorous Blood and Zealous Conscripts in case I run up against a fast mono red or a mirror, then rest in peace for some graveyard hate.  Just need a few other things to really round it out. 

I'm also considering dropping 1 or 2 lands to add a few more things into the main board, since most of the stuff I have is 1-3 drops. 

I also am contemplating sideboarding Thalia in order to add 2 more lightning maulers into it. 

As always thanks for the advice.

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Re: [Standard][Boros] Update and Sideboard help

At 23 lands, I don't really think Mortars is the best option for you. Until you get to 6 mana, it is just a poor removal spell. I don't really think that is a good sweeper unless you are playing a control deck with 26+ lands. I know it is expensive, but Bonfire of the Damned is better in this role in just about every way. Even without the miracle, 5 mana should be enough to kill the majority of blockers letting your team push through.

You don't have enough ETB triggers to make Cloudshift worth-while. It can maybe get an extra counter to your Champion or soulbond another dude with your Paladin, but otherwise it looks like the only real use is to bounce a guy and dodge removal. While that is a fun ability, Boros Charm also helps survive removal and has other options too. You would lose the ability to play Aurelia, attack bounce her attack again and then attack a third time. As awesome as that is, most opponent will be so crippled after attack #2 that if you haven't won the game you would have all but won the game. Don't try to win bigger when you can win more consistently.

Blind Obedience is a decent sideboard card for the mirror, but in most game 1s you don't want to be dropping that on turn 2. You should want your turn 2 to buff your Champion, or throw another beater down and attack. If you don't like Ash Zealot (you really should as all the abilities rock) then I would consider more Lightning Maulers. Haste is very important in an aggressive deck.

So thus far:
-3 Mizzium Mortars
-3 Cloudshift
-2 Blind Obedience
+2 Bonfire of the Damned
+2 Lightning Mauler
+1 Boros Charm

That should leave 2 spots. Skullcrack in the main deck can be a life saver. The goal of your deck should be to get the opponent from 20 to 0 life as quick as possible. Very few things interfere with that more than life gain. Normally that isn't a huge deal because generally life gain sucks. Unfortunately this is not a normal time as large life gain is attached to a 5 mana 5/3 beater that replaces itself or couples with draw X cards. So since lifegain is quite prevelent, you will want a way to counter that. Skullcrack isn't the best option, but it is really the only option available in Standard.

So +2 Skullcrack should round it out.

I am not going to suggest making any adjustment to the two angels. I would rather run 4 Hellriders than both of them, but it seems like you are deadset on keeping to the theme so that's cool.

I hope this helps.


Though the comments elsewhere in the thread have me really wanting to try a Turn 3 Silverblade Paladin into Turn 4 Spark Trooper.

Last edited by jettjj (2013-02-13 19:23:53)