morph66 wrote:I don't understand the being forced to send first because someone has a bunch more trades than a person. I didn't even have a trade yet and the person I negotiated with sent first. We are doing an almost 100$ deal. someone can just fluff their trades by sending out a bunch of dollar cards back and forth until they get 30 feedback then decide they are going to badtrade a tarmogoyf and split. I realize this will stop alot of my deals but I won't ever send first. I know i'm trustworthy, other people not so much.

This site needs to do a little better at letting you know if you are trading with an established adult or a 16 year old. You don't even know people's ages or anything. I find it weird that where you can trade 100$'s os dollars of cards you don't even have a person DOB.

Its not so much being forced as is something that someone who has less refs or is new should be prepared for. It doesnt always HAVE to apply but you shoudnt take it personally if asked and generally the people who have more successful trades, also have had equally unsuccessful ones so its a way of protecting themselves.

Its also gain trust and respect among other traders. Its more than just something to hold over peoples heads. It actual proof that you are trustworthy. Im not saying this as criticism but what weight does your word hold when you say your trustworthy as opposed to if I say the same? Im by no means trying berate or belittle you and you could very well be a trustworthy person. I merely saying there is actual proof and evidance to support my claim. Sure there is the risk you are taking by trading online and getting scammed but your less likely to get scammed by someone who has a good reputation than someone a with a few trades. This isnt just a unwritten rule on this site. You can to any other site (MOTL, MTGS, Youtube) and its pretty much the norm everyone accepts.

I dont think someones age really matters all that much. I know some pretty smart 16 year olds and have also dealt with some pretty dense adults so the door swings both ways.

Neokarasu wrote:

morph66 wrote:I know i'm trustworthy, other people not so much.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are.

Online trading is all about your rep. People with higher reps have more to lose with pulling fraudulent trades, namely the ability to trade with that community. It should be a given that people with nothing to lose (i.e. new members) have to prove themselves to be a contributing member of the community first. The feedback system isn't perfect and can be gamed so there is no clear-cut solution to prevent any fraud. The only thing available is deterrence due to the threat of losing access to trading with that community.

The discussion is at what point has a person sufficiently proven to be a contributing member of the community such that "seniority" is irrelevant in trading?

We can agree to disagree. I havn't been here long and without trudging up old wars(e.i I will not be specific) i've already met people with massive trade amounts that are abusive and insulting. I'm not going to be ignorant and say that it isn't likely a high trade amount would mean a good reputation and a good trader, but I don't think it's the only measuring stick. If anything it's also risky to trade with a high rep person because they are seen as a form of infallible. So if something goes awry in the communication they automatically get the benefit of the doubt and you get the screw.

Helios52 wrote: Its not so much being forced as is something that someone who has less refs or is new should be prepared for. It doesnt always HAVE to apply but you shoudnt take it personally if asked and generally the people who have more successful trades, also have had equally unsuccessful ones so its a way of protecting themselves.

Its also gain trust and respect among other traders. Its more than just something to hold over peoples heads. It actual proof that you are trustworthy. Im not saying this as criticism but what weight does your word hold when you say your trustworthy as opposed to if I say the same? Im by no means trying berate or belittle you and you could very well be a trustworthy person. I merely saying there is actual proof and evidance to support my claim. Sure there is the risk you are taking by trading online and getting scammed but your less likely to get scammed by someone who has a good reputation than someone a with a few trades. This isnt just a unwritten rule on this site. You can to any other site (MOTL, MTGS, Youtube) and its pretty much the norm everyone accepts.

I dont think someones age really matters all that much. I know some pretty smart 16 year olds and have also dealt with some pretty dense adults so the door swings both ways.

I guess there are other ways of proving you are a trustworthy person other than this site. Facebook being one, where you can see a person is an established adult, family, kids etc...

In my case, a small trade wouldn't bother me, but someone reached out and wanted my 2 most expensive cards and I told him I wouldn't trade them out unless they sent first. So they sent it out first, and I sent it out afterwards. I guess there are always exceptions to the norm.

I guess there are other ways of proving you are a trustworthy person other than this site. Facebook being one, where you can see a person is an established adult, family, kids etc...

In my case, a small trade wouldn't bother me, but someone reached out and wanted my 2 most expensive cards and I told him I wouldn't trade them out unless they sent first. So they sent it out first, and I sent it out afterwards. I guess there are always exceptions to the norm.

Im not completely disagreeing with you but even Facebook can be faked. Catfish anyone?

@ EVERYONE ELSE - I really appreciate all your advice and thoughts and wer're all in the same boat with this. For future suggestions that you think should be included, suggest what section number you think it should go under. It can be moved around later but just to get up there and it makes it easier for editing purposes.

On sending first - I almost make everyone send first with me. I've completed trades of greater than $700 where people have sent first to me since they have significantly lower rep. I think my new baseline is about 150 trades completed or previously have traded with me before for a simulsend. But, hey, each people can set their own rules. Those are just mine. I have never had problems and you can ask anyone who has traded with me, the turnaround from me is fast. Typically if someone isn't willing to at least discuss sending first, I won't even trade with them because that seems off. Once again, just my opinion.

In fact, recent rep comment: "Only took one week from when i sent my cards to when i got the cards from him. Very quick." from Mazinem.

On cross-format&trading down - I don't always accept trades cross-formats, but sometimes I do. I think it depends how badly I need the card one way or the other. Same goes for trading down, sometimes I'm willing to trade down. Sometimes I ask for extra value in a trade down, which I also think is fair.

Also marumari is right, the "new" features were set to debut in February/March this year. So much for that. :|

I just want to say that I am against having my date of birth posted on my MTG trading account. I don't think it adds anything of value to know when I was born. Also, I do not want to link my Facebook account. No one here needs access to my personal life. If you have traded with me, then you obviously know my name and address but i don't want strangers i don't know looking at my profile, no matter if it set to private. It makes no difference if i am tradig with an 8 year old or an 80 year old. If we can come to an agreement then we have a trade and if there is a bump in the road we can cancel it.

GarrukWildspeaker wrote:I just want to say that I am against having my date of birth posted on my MTG trading account. I don't think it adds anything of value to know when I was born. Also, I do not want to link my Facebook account. No one here needs access to my personal life. If you have traded with me, then you obviously know my name and address but i don't want strangers i don't know looking at my profile, no matter if it set to private. It makes no difference if i am tradig with an 8 year old or an 80 year old. If we can come to an agreement then we have a trade and if there is a bump in the road we can cancel it.

I don't want facebook profiles to be put on here aswell. I just said that I used that with a poster in private to establish a connection for a trade. I wouldn't put it on here. I have no idea why someone would be opposed to putting their age other then being embarrassed by it though. Almost every single message board forum lets you put in your DOB, it's not mandatory but it's an option. Personally i believe people who don't want to admit their age are usually teens/children who want to seem older. Or older ladies who don't want you to know they are old...

why should age matter when making a trade? Whether Your 18 or 80 it shouldn't make a difference for trades and their quality. all that matter is that trades are fair, even and talked about within chat. Someone who's younger shouldn't have to send first.

Another thing i'd like to add is it should be proper etiquette not to post a trading thread on someone else's thread...which has happened to me and it is irritating...

Until this actually gets Stickyed here, Im going to keep bumping it.

BumpTop

Helios52 wrote: - Proposing a trade without saying anything in the chat box will get you as far as a turtle in peanut butter.

[u]THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND FRIGGIN TIMES THIS.[/u]

I've started purposefully ignoring trades, simply because people don't say anything in them. I get the notifications, I even have a tab constantly open in my browser to check for new proposals... but I refuse to work with anyone who doesn't say anything, or won't say anything, even after my attempts to communicate. It feels like they're not really interested in the trade at all, and it feels disrespectful most of all.

Bump - added a portion about selling cards....

Helios52 wrote:Bump - added a portion about selling cards....

Add something about eBay sold listing when looking for an asking price. They generally show how much people would actually pay for a card (i.e. fair market value).

For example: JTMS
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=jace+the+mind+sculptor&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

A cursory glance shows multiple listings ending at ~$100, a really good deal at $83, and a couple at $110. The FTV version seems to be more in demand but they're both within $10 of each other. So if I were to try selling a FTV Jace, I would set my price depending on how fast I want it gone. If I want it gone ASAP, I would sell at $100. If I don't mind waiting, I would set it at $110.

Neokarasu wrote:

Helios52 wrote:Bump - added a portion about selling cards....

Add something about eBay sold listing when looking for an asking price. They generally show how much people would actually pay for a card (i.e. fair market value).

For example: JTMS
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=jace+the+mind+sculptor&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

A cursory glance shows multiple listings ending at ~$100, a really good deal at $83, and a couple at $110. The FTV version seems to be more in demand but they're both within $10 of each other. So if I were to try selling a FTV Jace, I would set my price depending on how fast I want it gone. If I want it gone ASAP, I would sell at $100. If I don't mind waiting, I would set it at $110.

Added

I will get this STICKIED IF ITS THE LAST THING I DO!

I didnt spend hour at work writing this for nothing!!

Helios52 wrote:I will get this STICKIED IF ITS THE LAST THING I DO!

I didnt spend hour at work writing this for nothing!!

lol... or just keep bumping it : )

non-mods revolt...

bump

Mods are now able to moderate the Reddit forum since there seems to be no active Community Admins here. So, I can sticky this post now!

AsymptomaticPyrexia wrote:Mods are now able to moderate the Reddit forum since there seems to be no active Community Admins here. So, I can sticky this post now!

Is there an application I can fill out? :P

AsymptomaticPyrexia wrote:Mods are now able to moderate the Reddit forum since there seems to be no active Community Admins here. So, I can sticky this post now!

HA SUCCESS!!

Thank you !

I will do my best to keep this up to date with the new update as well XD

AsymptomaticPyrexia wrote:Mods are now able to moderate the Reddit forum since there seems to be no active Community Admins here. So, I can sticky this post now!

Is it possible to reassign community admins if none are active?

Actinide wrote:Is it possible to reassign community admins if none are active?

Probably but that's something that can only be done by the Deckbox Team. Mods have only been granted thread controls (Move, Delete, Copy, Close, Stick) and do NOT have the same access as Community Admins.

AsymptomaticPyrexia wrote:

Actinide wrote:Is it possible to reassign community admins if none are active?

Probably but that's something that can only be done by the Deckbox Team. Mods have only been granted thread controls (Move, Delete, Copy, Close, Stick) and do NOT have the same access as Community Admins.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info, feel free to delete any of these posts since they don't have relevance to the topic. Just can't PM on this forum. :)

Would it be possible to add in a section for international trading? There seems to be a growing trend of people not knowing how to ship trades cross border in ways to minimize shipping costs. Having a section with tips and tricks to minimize or prevent a postal headache would be great for traders looking to trade from their respective country to another country.

Kei_Asaki wrote:Would it be possible to add in a section for international trading? There seems to be a growing trend of people not knowing how to ship trades cross border in ways to minimize shipping costs. Having a section with tips and tricks to minimize or prevent a postal headache would be great for traders looking to trade from their respective country to another country.

I would think that would need it's own thread. It seems kind of out of the realm of etiquette to me.

Well done man, well done.

How long do you give someone to respond if you see they've been online? I just started out on here, I have 4 trades in the mail, but have proposed 10+ others. Every trade I send out with a hello and all the cards are from our matching trade lists and wish lists. A few people haven't replied at all, but are shown as active. Do people typically just ignore a trade they don't want? I don't want to spam/be annoying but I've got to assume they've seen it, since I sent it with a message and I get an email when someone proposes a trade to me, so I'm assuming they're receiving one when I do it as well. I just don't want to be proposing a bunch of trades with overlapping cards, so I'm tempted to cancel the proposals so I can throw new ones out to other people x.x

ofmidnightskies wrote:How long do you give someone to respond if you see they've been online? I just started out on here, I have 4 trades in the mail, but have proposed 10+ others. Every trade I send out with a hello and all the cards are from our matching trade lists and wish lists. A few people haven't replied at all, but are shown as active. Do people typically just ignore a trade they don't want? I don't want to spam/be annoying but I've got to assume they've seen it, since I sent it with a message and I get an email when someone proposes a trade to me, so I'm assuming they're receiving one when I do it as well. I just don't want to be proposing a bunch of trades with overlapping cards, so I'm tempted to cancel the proposals so I can throw new ones out to other people x.x

The short answer is as long as you want, especially when stalking them. As is stated here, there are many reasons to use deckbox and people aren't here to serve you. They may be busy, considering the trade, just signed on to check a card/deck, didn't like something you did, don't like the trade, seeing how impatient you are to gauge if you're a scammer, etc. Stalking doesn't help this in any way. If you're in a rush, just cancel the trade. Otherwise you have to wait for whatever reason they aren't responding.

I've found that, after a few days, changing something in the trade and then change it back is usually a good idea to give people time. This kicks the trade down so it has to be re-proposed to be accepted and it doesn't tie anything up in a commitment for people who take a while with trades. If it's in an editing stage, there really isn't a need to cancel and it gives people all the time they want.

Japoco wrote:The short answer is as long as you want, especially when stalking them. As is stated here, there are many reasons to use deckbox and people aren't here to serve you. They may be busy, considering the trade, just signed on to check a card/deck, didn't like something you did, don't like the trade, seeing how impatient you are to gauge if you're a scammer, etc. Stalking doesn't help this in any way. If you're in a rush, just cancel the trade. Otherwise you have to wait for whatever reason they aren't responding.

I've found that, after a few days, changing something in the trade and then change it back is usually a good idea to give people time. This kicks the trade down so it has to be re-proposed to be accepted and it doesn't tie anything up in a commitment for people who take a while with trades. If it's in an editing stage, there really isn't a need to cancel and it gives people all the time they want.

Oh it was less stalking them and more rechecking trades after I had added more to my tradelist and wishlist. It's just the only forum trading I've ever done was wayyy back on d2jsp and then on the PoE forums. Both were pretty quick so I just wanted an idea of the atmosphere here.

I tended to wait a few days. If the trade wasn't responded to, I'd cancel it and leave some message encouraging trade in the future.

My deciding factor was when I might get two cards proposed at the same time.

Above though, is also accurate. I use deckbox almost daily, but do zero trading currently. Don't forget to post on reddit's subsection, and don't get discouraged.

ofmidnightskies wrote:Oh it was less stalking them and more rechecking trades after I had added more to my tradelist and wishlist. It's just the only forum trading I've ever done was wayyy back on d2jsp and then on the PoE forums. Both were pretty quick so I just wanted an idea of the atmosphere here.

It's pretty hard to group it up. Newer traders are usually expecting/giving quick responses while people with more trades have a tendency to go slower, they seem to check up on people more, are just not as in a rush to get what they want, and have already spent too much time running around for cards and/or are tired of getting bad offers so they just wait and see. Other people only trade on certain days and just read the messages as they pop up.

I typically end up checking a trade on my phone, then when I get home I'll check up on them (cancelled/accepted/proposed trades, how many trades currently open, inventory v. tradelist v. wantlist, what they're offering v. wanting v. their TL, etc.) Unless it's something I absolutely need I'll usually wait until I have free time (usually a couple days) and then look through TL and see if it's something I'm interested in. If someone proposes something stupid I'll either ignore it or if I'm bored, I'll drag it out so they think I'm stupid enough to do the trade before I cancel. If someone gets pushy or are in a rush, I usually take it as a sign they're trying to do something shady with the trade (price increases/reprints/etc) and am more than happy to let them cancel.

Like I said, if it's something you need and aren't in all that much of a rush, just kick the trade down into the editing stage and it can sit there forever with no consequences, in case they are just someone who's slow to respond. They'd still have to re-propose the trade before it can be accepted.