Topic: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

So, I've just started getting into MtG, so I'm a bit of a newbie to this. I have (so far) got a Dragon's Maze booster pack and a 2014 Deck Builder's Toolkit for cards, with all of them listed on my profile http://deckbox.org/sets/506835?s=j&o=d. The reason for Dragon's Maze was a friend had an unopened box, sold it to me for $100, when here in Canada it's usually around $140... I realise now Dragon's Maze isn't the best collection. I did however get a Ral Zarek there, so that's pretty much my main reason to be building a red/blue deck. I also found a ton of sorcery/instant cards, so I've been including lots of those. Therefore, http://deckbox.org/sets/506894 is what I have so far, but I'm still trying to get under 70 cards. Not sure how many lands to include, for one, and the fuse sorceries/instants are being miscounted by the system (e.g. Turn // Burn is listed as a 2U, where it should be a 2R as well...).

I have no idea if this deck will be any good when done, either. If by looking at my card list, it's obvious I have the cards to make another better deck of a completely different mana base, I would gladly switch to that...

Last edited by Kyremi (2013-10-18 04:55:03)

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

I would start by getting rid of the Gate Keepers, and any of the dual cards you have where you cant cast both halves.

Most of those cards are similar to another (Cheap) card but not quite as good because it gives you the extra option of the second card. Ideally you want alot of duplicates of the spells that are the most effective so you're more likely to get them.

Where abouts in canada are you? Im in toronto and I've rarely seen a box go for over $100 if its still in standard. I know a couple stores that will ship anywhere in canada for cheap as well.

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

I would start by getting rid of the Gate Keepers, and any of the dual cards you have where you cant cast both halves.

This is terrible advice.  Do not get rid of cards like Turn/burn or Far/away.  These two cards imparticular are some of the best in class removal of its kind.  They see play at the highest levels of competative magic they are snap includes if you are in Blue, black, red or any combination. 

The only problem I see with playing these cards is you're strictly UR (blue red) and you can only support turn/burn, but I'd play a few copies of it.

I do agree with TRZ on the gate keepers. 

You're also way over 60 cards and you need to trim down to 60.

Take a look at this article by Travis Woo.  He's a notorious magic deck brewer and it seems like using his deck as a template could help you stream line your build a little.  It's a little older and could use some updating, but the strategy of the deck is still valid.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles … zet-blitz/

  • lago
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Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

Welcome to the game!  In your mind, how do you plan on winning with this deck?  What tempo do you want to set with it?

For example do you plan on punching your opponent in the mouth right out of the gate and killing them as quick as possible (aggro is what this is called I believe) or do you have a slower strategy in mind?

I've got one deck where if I'm not swinging for 4 or 5+ by turn 3 my odds of winning are terrible.  I've also got a deck where it would be a big surprise if I've swung for anything before turn 6 and I've got great odds of winning if I've lasted that long.

So, figure out how you want to win and the tempo you want to set and it'll make fine tuning your deck a lot easier.

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

Turn and burn he can cast both halves of and so should keep. When you cant cast away,  far and away is a worse voyages end which is a worse boomerang all of which are cheaply available.

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

Far/away is still a great card, if he wants to splash black to support it I could get behind that, but his mana base is pretty shoddy.  He needs the shocks temples, etc...

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

elpablo wrote:

Far/away is still a great card, if he wants to splash black to support it I could get behind that, but his mana base is pretty shoddy.  He needs the shocks temples, etc...

I agree but those are expensive. Assuming A pure izzet with what he has most of the fuse cards are not great smile

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

turn/burn is a fantastic card.  It kills some of the most powerful creatures around.  Paying 5 to kill an obzedat is an okay investment.  I think we're looking at the cards from different perspectives.  Name another card that cost 5 that's instant that can kill an obzedat by itself?

and IKD about the shocks.  Steam vents are the cheapest shocks and he's got a couple value cards that could be traded for some.

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

elpablo wrote:

turn/burn is a fantastic card.  It kills some of the most powerful creatures around.  Paying 5 to kill an obzedat is an okay investment.  I think we're looking at the cards from different perspectives.  Name another card that cost 5 that's instant that can kill an obzedat by itself?

and IKD about the shocks.  Steam vents are the cheapest shocks and he's got a couple value cards that could be traded for some.

Whoops. I think we are mis communicating.

I think he should get rid of
Far//away and the other Fuses that are not both sides blue/red.

I think he should keep Turn//burn (Or other blue/red fuses)

:3

Yeah Steam Vents is the cheapest and quite good. Generally a good investment to trade for. Though there are some other good cards that might be nice to fill the deck with (Young Pyro would fit well in this or Flamekin Harbinger if you're not playing standard)

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

TRZ wrote:

Where abouts in canada are you? Im in toronto and I've rarely seen a box go for over $100 if its still in standard. I know a couple stores that will ship anywhere in canada for cheap as well.

I'm in Alberta. I tried ordering the booster boxes from amazon.com but they wouldn't ship to me, and the equivalent price on amazon.ca was 40/50 dollars higher, which makes no sense to me... it's like a tax for living in Canada.

lago wrote:

Welcome to the game!  In your mind, how do you plan on winning with this deck?  What tempo do you want to set with it?

For example do you plan on punching your opponent in the mouth right out of the gate and killing them as quick as possible (aggro is what this is called I believe) or do you have a slower strategy in mind?

I've got one deck where if I'm not swinging for 4 or 5+ by turn 3 my odds of winning are terrible.  I've also got a deck where it would be a big surprise if I've swung for anything before turn 6 and I've got great odds of winning if I've lasted that long.

So, figure out how you want to win and the tempo you want to set and it'll make fine tuning your deck a lot easier.

This deck to me seemed like a 'fling instants and sorceries at opponent until dead' kind of deck. Some of the reds I have are pretty good at gaining control of enemy creatures (at least I think that's what they do, like Act of Treason?). To support that I tried to include as many 'draw a card' cards as possible (the reason for the Opal gatekeepers, at least), as well as Divination and Opportunity. The creatures that worked best with sorceries/instants (at least in my mind) were Goblin Electromancer, Guttersnipe, Nivix Cyclops, Archaeomancer and Fluxcharger, so I definitely wanted those.

Regarding the Steam Vent card, I wish I had that but I was not lucky enough to draw it. I did get Temple Garden and Blood Crypt though... maybe I should try a deck along those lines? I do seem to have a few red/black cards which might not be bad, like Master of Cruelties...

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

Use deck box and try to trade for cards to make your deck better.  You have a few things worth trading.

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

elpablo wrote:

Use deck box and try to trade for cards to make your deck better.  You have a few things worth trading.

What's 'deck box' in this context? And what should I be aiming to trade for?

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

I opened a trade with you on deck box for some BS cards.  You can make offers and counter offers, and if you create a wish list and click on the card name you can see a list of people who have the card for trade.

You also need to decide what cards you want to keep and which are for trade and make a "trade list"

Last edited by elpablo (2013-10-18 18:41:47)

  • lago
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Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

Kyremi wrote:

This deck to me seemed like a 'fling instants and sorceries at opponent until dead' kind of deck. Some of the reds I have are pretty good at gaining control of enemy creatures (at least I think that's what they do, like Act of Treason?). To support that I tried to include as many 'draw a card' cards as possible (the reason for the Opal gatekeepers, at least), as well as Divination and Opportunity. The creatures that worked best with sorceries/instants (at least in my mind) were Goblin Electromancer, Guttersnipe, Nivix Cyclops, Archaeomancer and Fluxcharger, so I definitely wanted those.

Regarding the Steam Vent card, I wish I had that but I was not lucky enough to draw it. I did get Temple Garden and Blood Crypt though... maybe I should try a deck along those lines? I do seem to have a few red/black cards which might not be bad, like Master of Cruelties...

I'd say you want to go for speed then, because I doubt you'd be able to survive a very long game.  I looked through some of your cards and one of the biggest issues I see in the deck is you don't really have 4 of anything.  If you're open to trading try to get 4 of cards that you like (Goblin Electromancer and Guttersnipe are going to do you a world of good). 

The way this deck is currently your gatekeepers added abilities are never going to kick off.  You only have two gates, so you're going to have to get both of those out, and then a gatekeeper.  If it did happen, and it hardly ever will, it'd probably be to late in the game for it to do you much good.

You may want to look at dropping the gates too.  They come into play tapped which is going to slow you down.  You will lose some mana fixing but the trade off in time is going to be worth it, I think.  I did notice you have 2 Shock in your collection.  Those would work nicely.

Scrying seems to be a pretty popular mechanic in the new set as well.  That'll help you manipulate your deck.  So Magma Jet is one I'd mention as well as Lightning Bolt, or any other cheap spell for that matter.  One of my favorite spells is Browbeat.  A creature card I saw that would probably work is Lobber Crew.

Just throwing in my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt, have fun tweaking your deck and playing it!

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

lago wrote:
Kyremi wrote:

This deck to me seemed like a 'fling instants and sorceries at opponent until dead' kind of deck. Some of the reds I have are pretty good at gaining control of enemy creatures (at least I think that's what they do, like Act of Treason?). To support that I tried to include as many 'draw a card' cards as possible (the reason for the Opal gatekeepers, at least), as well as Divination and Opportunity. The creatures that worked best with sorceries/instants (at least in my mind) were Goblin Electromancer, Guttersnipe, Nivix Cyclops, Archaeomancer and Fluxcharger, so I definitely wanted those.

Regarding the Steam Vent card, I wish I had that but I was not lucky enough to draw it. I did get Temple Garden and Blood Crypt though... maybe I should try a deck along those lines? I do seem to have a few red/black cards which might not be bad, like Master of Cruelties...

I'd say you want to go for speed then, because I doubt you'd be able to survive a very long game.  I looked through some of your cards and one of the biggest issues I see in the deck is you don't really have 4 of anything.  If you're open to trading try to get 4 of cards that you like (Goblin Electromancer and Guttersnipe are going to do you a world of good). 

The way this deck is currently your gatekeepers added abilities are never going to kick off.  You only have two gates, so you're going to have to get both of those out, and then a gatekeeper.  If it did happen, and it hardly ever will, it'd probably be to late in the game for it to do you much good.

You may want to look at dropping the gates too.  They come into play tapped which is going to slow you down.  You will lose some mana fixing but the trade off in time is going to be worth it, I think.  I did notice you have 2 Shock in your collection.  Those would work nicely.

Scrying seems to be a pretty popular mechanic in the new set as well.  That'll help you manipulate your deck.  So Magma Jet is one I'd mention as well as Lightning Bolt, or any other cheap spell for that matter.  One of my favorite spells is Browbeat.  A creature card I saw that would probably work is Lobber Crew.

Just throwing in my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt, have fun tweaking your deck and playing it!

I'd love to get 4 of those that you mentioned, but I don't know any good Canadian single-card selling websites. I removed a few things you mentioned from my deck (including Aetherling, because despite being awesome he doesn't quite fit the deck as far as I could see?) but I'm still 13 over, and I don't know what else to cut...

16 Reply by TRZ

Re: Help with my first deck (Red/Blue with Ral Zarek)

In an ideal world how about something like this? Obviously you could tweak this and that to balance out what you have with what you can get and what you prefer.

http://deckbox.org/sets/508525?s=a&o=a