R/W Boros deck (Page 1 of 2)

So obviously results will vary based on how competitive your local FNM is, but my base assumption is that you're going to get killed pretty hard.  The biggest problem isn't the strategy so much as the lack of consistency in play.  You REALLY need to have something that performs consistently to do well in a competitive environment.  As such, just as you said, you'll need 3-4x of most cards to really provide what you're looking for.

That being said, cards to focus on include:

Legion Loyalist, Foundry Street Denizen, Ash Zealot, Daring Skyjek, Firefist Striker, Imposing Sovereign, Boros Reckoner, Chandra's Phoenix, and Aurelia (who actually did pretty well at the TCG 50K Diamond event).  In reality, you're going to want to top your curve off at four with Fanatic of Mogis or something to that end.

I would honestly suggest looking at the Boros and RDW builds that have put up solid numbers in the recent tourneys (you can find them at http://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.asp) and use that as a template to strive toward.  You don't have to match it card-for-card, and in fact, I would encourage you not to; but, go ahead and recognize that these decks are tested a LOT  by the various players who have spent countless hours trying to figure out the best cards, combos, and strategies.  As such, why re-invent the wheel?

If you're looking for a heroic style, Craig Wescoe actually JUST wrote an article on an amusing build, although it's Azorius colors - so why not make it "Real American Heroes" and make R/U/W heroic?  You can find Wescoe's article here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11485) and a quick take I had on the three color deck idea here (http://deckbox.org/sets/523862).

Be creative, but keep in mind that the competitive game is a far different animal than the kitchen table.  You'll want higher numbers of the cards you use most and rely on most to win the game.

I hope this helps... Good luck!

I understand the reluctance to net-deck, believe me, I do.  But putting multiples into a deck to increase consistency is just smart deckbuilding, it has nothing to do with net-decking or anything of that sort.  So running 1x Daring Skyjek versus 4x is just saying that you don't really want to draw it consistently, which then says, you just don't need the card at all and can drop it.  Refusing to net-deck is one thing, but refusing to add card consistency will simply result in your deck failing to perform.

As far as topping the curve off at four, you say that's too slow, but the most aggressive decks out there top out at four.  RDW famously topped at four with Hellrider pre-rotation and now runs Fanatic of Mogis.  Further, you tell me that topping at four is too slow, but you put a six-drop in the deck?  If Aurelia is only for games that go long, put her in the SB as you don't need her most of the time.  But more importantly, aggro decks will either win the game by turn 6 or the game is typically lost by then.  So a six-drop really doesn't make sense.

For mono-black.  Yes, you have first strike, but they have targeted removal... a LOT of it.  Their job isn't to win creature combat.  As such, Gift of Immortality is never going to resolve as they can take out the target at instant speed.  Do you have answers to Desecration Demon?  Whip of Erebos?  Gray Merchant?  As you sit I only see two cards that could deal with one.  So unless you're getting a T4 kill every game (which you won't), you have something of a problem.

For mono-blue, Master of Waves has pro-red, so again, your only option at the moment is Chained to the Rocks... strikes me as a bit of a problem.

For R/G devotion, they're going to be dropping a LOT of creatures faster than you can...

So, what can you do about it?  Again, I would suggest using one of the tourney decks as A STARTING POINT to then deviate from based on the cards you have and the strategy you would like to adopt.  If you're all about double-strike, then get another 3x Fabled Hero, 1x Two-Headed Cerberus, and 3x Fencing Ace.  Toss in some Fireshriekers and focus then on some spot removal and pump spells for them.  It's not that hard to make the changes, but simply denouncing all the time and work someone else put into the decks you see online just for the sake of "not net-decking" is silly.  It is possible to look at someone's idea and figure out how to apply your own ideas to the deck...

A few added thoughts:

1) Chandra's Phoenix, mana permitting, is better than Skyknight Legionnaire 100 out of 100 times.  Why?  It can come back with a burn spell.  Skyknight dies, it's gone.  But also, why not run 5x of a 2/2 flying haste?  Flying wins a LOT of games.

2) If you're wanting a TON of speed, why are there only two one-drops?  Foundry Street Denizen will almost NEVER attack for just one.  Soldier of the Pantheon and Dryad Militant are both good options here too - although I cannot stress enough how much Firedrinker Satyr is bad.

3) Again, if you're after speed, where is Burning-Tree Emissary?  It's literally a free 2/2 that can help trigger battalion and the like.

4) If you really want an unorthodox way to go with things, figure out how to run a deck with 4x Firemane Avenger.  It costs all of a dollar per card and can be a real threat, taking out blockers, pinging the opponent, all while gaining you life.

5) Boros Charm?  Your board wipe worries are significantly less if you have 4x of these.  Alternately, Rootborn Defenses but that's more expensive and you likely won't get any benefit out of the populate trigger.

6) Temple of Abandon really is worth looking into getting a few copies.  The scry can be really big for you.

7) Hammer of Purphoros can also really help a build like this, giving stuff haste and even turning late game land draws into 3/3 golems.

8) Additionally, if you're on the double-strike train, why not up the copies of Madcap Skills to 4x and toss in Dragon Mantles?  Both are GREAT for double-strike creatures and the mantle even replaces itself by letting you draw another card.  Both open the door to get two-for-one'd, but such is the case with auras.

9) Perhaps Tajic would find a welcome home here?  Indestructible is a thing these days I hear...

Ultimately how you decide to modify it is your business, but keep in mind that taking someone else's deck and modifying it is NOT net-decking (taking someone else's decklist card-for-card is).  I cannot stress how it pained me to start looking at decklists and such myself, but in the world of competitive magic you will lose a LOT if you refuse to add multiples of cards for consistency or to recognize that some people do this for a living, lucky bastards, and we would be well to at least consider that they might know what they're doing.

The key for you is going to be to get the most out of each heroic trigger.  To be honest, Phalanx Leader would be a good fit here if you're really looking for those sorts of things.  Additional spells for the triggers are Titan's Strength, Gods Willing, Dragon Mantle, Madcap Skills - I honestly wouldn't run more than that as you're already sitting on possibly 16 spells that require a valid target or they're dead cards.

For the Hammer, really since just about everything has haste anyway, you would probably actually hold it until T4 - T5, as you could easily drop it and then start converting lands into golems at that point since you'll need SOMETHING to overwhelm them with if the game has gone that long.

As for not having multiple copies of stuff yet, just put lands in the sleeves and put notes in front of them to serve as proxies to playtest the deck to see how it feels, how it performs and the like.  You obviously can't play it in an FNM like that, but still, it's a start.  Then if you need to pick up the cards, I'd suggest just checking on TCGPlayer as I'd wager you can pick the singles up cheaper that way and likely finish out the deck for like $5-20.

I mean Judge's Familiar is an underrated card much of the time.  It gives you a flying 1/1, so you're almost always dealing some damage, and, perhaps most importantly, everyone forgets about the ability to sack it to counter stuff, so you can often catch the opponent not paying attention and counter his Sphinx's Revelation/Hero's Downfall, etc.  Is it necessarily an aggro card, not really, but I can think of worse things to be running.

The biggest problem with Legion Loyalist is that he never gets any bigger.  Sure, setting off his battalion makes most of your guys win in combat, but on average, they can just take that damage to block and kill the loyalist and then just clean up next combat.  If he were able to get +2/+0 on a regular basis, then he'd be much more effective.

Daring Skyjek is among the better two-drops given your colors.  Compare it to the ones that are seeing the most play - Firefist Striker, Goblin Shortcutter, Burning-Tree Emissary.  Compared to Firefist, sure, it cannot outright stop a blocker, but it's giving you an added power in a flying creature.  Compared to Shortcutter, again, it cannot stop a blocker (only once this time), but it again has the same advantages.  Compared to BTE, well, it actually costs mana as opposed to essentially being free like BTE, but that added power and flying are quite relevant, especially if you run things like Legion's Initiative, Spear of Heliod or Path of Bravery.  So, pending you don't have the other pieces, I think Skyjek is a fine choice to run as a 4x.

My current plan is to expand on the cards fabled hero, phalanx leader. Get another ajani, caller of the pride, 2 boros charm, 2 aurelia's fury to add to main deck. Also thinking of adding 2-4 frontline medic

Last edited by Piffguru (2013-11-11 20:24:32)

I got 4 rubblebelt maaka Im just using those for the bloodrush so I did 2 of those and 2 titans strength, instead of doing 4 of each I wanted to split it so I can choose the extra toughness when needed and the scry others, wear//tear was specifically for enchantments since I had nothing for them and they were a big deal at FNM for me, yes I would prob switch them out for something like messengers speed. Not much point in having more than 2 legendary like tajic and I dont even like em that much so I just like having 1 for the indestructible.

At one point I had a second archangel of thune but I sold that early on, I like its addition to this deck now but I wouldnt really want 4 of them since the mana cost is high, I think of it not as having 1x and 1x but 2x end game cards.

My reason for adding more 3 mana cards is cause of the experience I had last friday. It seemed that I would have a good start and decent mid but absolutely no end game. so Im trying to strengthen my midgame to allow for a better end, if that makes sense.

Last edited by Piffguru (2013-11-11 21:15:20)

I certainly understand why you chose to add the cards, but they really just aren't ideal in most scenarios.  Rubblebelt Maaka is nice for the bloodrush, but keep in mind that bloodrush doesn't count as "casting" a spell and as such will NOT trigger heroic.  So to that end, I would yank them immediately.  You'll be much better off with Titan's Strength or something else that actually targets.

I get that you don't want to be sitting on a second legendary creature, but only having 1x Tajic is essentially saying you never want to draw him.  If that's the case, cut him and put something else in his place that you DO want to draw.

The reason I suggest getting more Archangels is to increase consistency.  Again, with it being only 1x, you really cannot count on actually drawing it with any reliability.  Even bringing that count up to 2x doubles the odds you see it and makes it a much more likely end-game.

As you just said, you want to strengthen your mid-game, which means you're wanting to abandon the aggro strategy... I cannot stress enough, aggro decks will either win or lose the game 90% of the time by turn 5 or 6.  So to that end, you really shouldn't CARE about not having a mid or late game.  If you want one of those, well, then you're going to want to revamp the whole thing to be more mid-range, which is fine, but all the more reason to up the count of Archangel of Thune.

Additionally, I know WHY you want Wear // Tear, but that goes in the sideboard, as enchantment hate won't do you much good against RDW or a variety of other decks out there.  At most it is good to remove Underworld Connections or Whip of Erebos against mono-black, but unless you're running into that deck every round, there isn't much sense in it being mainboard there either.

Like I said, I'll take a gander at your inventory and will see what you could do... but the question is, do you want to go mid-range or aggro?  Do you want to feature heroic as your main strategy or are you interested in going another route?  Are you completely sold that you HAVE to go with Boros or would you be fine changing it to Azorius?

The key is if you're up for that strategy, U/W actually is better suited to be effective...

http://deckbox.org/sets/537107

ok here is where im at now with the deck, I have more 4ofs now and feel its a little more consistent.

I'm a little less optimistic than Ty.  For an aggro deck you're light on creatures; for a midrange deck you're light on bombs and for anything else the cards are just too random.  Have you play tested this at all?  How does it hold up against teir 1 decks?  Teir 2? 

Lands - You're at 20, which for an aggro deck might be okay, but you're not really an agro deck.  Need the Sacred foundry's and a couple more temples.  2 color will be difficult to pull off without all the mana fixing available to you. The scry lands are of benefit in and of themselves just for the scry.

2 Boros Guildgate
7 Mountain
1 Mutavault
8 Plains
2 Temple of Triumph

Spells - this is your worst area.  You have a hodge podge of random effects.  Removal buffs, tricks.  I'm not sure what plan you're on.  Only a couple of these actually trigger heroic. If you want to go the removal route and play more of a control/burn matchup then there is definitely a deck for that. I'll post a list at the bottom.

1 Brave the Elements
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Ethereal Armor
2 Messenger's Speed
1 Silence
2 Boros Charm
2 Magma Jet
4 Martial Glory
1 Ratchet Bomb

Creatures - 17 creatures isn't enough to get you there in an aggro deck one sweeper and you're SOL.  You'll never be able to put enough pressure on IMO.  You need some effective one drops like Satyr, soldier of the pantheon, 2 drops like pricinct captain etc.  And if you go midrange or aggro then you can drop everything here but reckoner and the bird.

4 Phalanx Leader
2 Anax and Cymede
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fabled Hero

Others - You're not going to have enough devotion to turn on the gods consistently and trying to run and turn on both is silly.  Pick one or the other.   Ajani goes in a white weenie type deck, not in a burn deck. 

1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
____________________________________________________________________________________
This burn deck is a fantastic control/burn deck.  It does a much better job of the plan (i think) you're on.  The other thing about this deck is it's decently affordable and even a cheap version of it can be built if you need to sub some lands or side board cards.

9  Mountain
4  Sacred Foundry
4  Temple of Silence
4  Temple of Triumph
21 lands

4  Chandra's Phoenix
4  Rakdos Cackler
8 creatures

4  Boros Charm
4  Chained to the Rocks
4  Lightning Strike
4  Magma Jet
4  Shock
4  Skullcrack
4  Toil // Trouble
3  Warleader's Helix
31 other spells

Sideboard
4  Anger of the Gods
4  Boros Reckoner
2  Mizzium Mortars
2  Spark Trooper
3  Young Pyromancer

Last edited by elpablo (2013-11-19 20:31:49)

So to this end, the reason I said to drop Ethereal Armor is because the creatures you're likely going to put it on are already pretty easy targets (and who will draw removal anyway), i.e., Fabled Hero whose "double-strike" is also like a big red target on his back.  Swapping it for Dragon Mantle is better for a variety of reasons - one, it triggers heroic, two, it gives the OPTION of pumping (whether you only do it once or more is up to you and your mana base) and, three, it replaces itself via the card draw.

I wouldn't go with Legion's Initiative as it really is a sub-optimal Spear of Heliod.  Sure, it costs one less, but outside of Anax and Cymede you don't have any multicolored creatures that are going to get the full benefit - and giving your Fabled Hero +0/+1 really doesn't do much good.  Additionally, Boros Charm is good, but if you're not going the burn route, I wouldn't really suggest adding any more.  The biggest thing it's going to give you is the protection from sweepers, so perhaps 1-2x more in the SB, but 2x in the MB sounds about right for what you're looking at.

Silence has always struck me as an interesting card that doesn't see enough play.  I certainly understand all the reasons why it doesnt, but for an aggro deck, it strikes me as a solid tempo option to help you close the door on the opponent.  But, not being an aggro deck, for your purposes perhaps it goes to the SB to combat control decks that are counter-heavy.

Ratchet Bomb is also a SB card at best, and an underwhelming option given that it telegraphs your play.  I played an opponent this past week who relied on it for his removal of my creatures beyond 2-3 toughness, and well, I was able to play around it just fine.  Keep it in the SB for tokens, but beyond that, it really won't do much for ya.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'll also concur with El Pablo about using one of each god rather than 2x of the one you're going to benefit from most - likely Heliod.  Purphoros, for all the hype he received, really works best in a deck that utilizes Young Pyromancer and other things like that.

I think if you're sticking with Heroic, Martial Glory is actually a great card.  It provides a double heroic trigger for two, meaning that you can either pump your entire team twice via Phalanx Leader or give +5/+5 to your Fabled Hero - or even some combination using Anax and Cymede for trample.  (Having just run an Agent of the Fates + Hidden Strings combo deck for the victory this past week, I can say that double heroic triggers can be huge).

All that being said, I think you're not too far off from a deck that will perform moderately at your FNM (perhaps yours is super competitive and you'll do worse).  It's unlikely that the deck will beat the tier 1 decks with regularity, but you have a LOT better shot than you did at the start.  Further, sometimes these off-the-wall builds can really take the meta by surprise as I was able to beat both a Selesnya Aggro AND mono-green devotion last week with my U/B homebrew.

Then again, if you're planning to go mono-white, then this is an entirely moot discussion and you should really be looking at the mono-white aggro and mono-white devotion builds.

So there are three issues with what you're proposing:

1) Boros Charm provides a great option for some spot burn but in a competitive environment, the indestructible can be HUGE as you can blow someone out in combat, survive a sweeper, etc.  Another fun part of the Charm is that it can be directed at PWs, making it a cheaper version of Hero's Downfall in a LOT of instances.  However, what Boros Charm cannot do is target enemy creatures - sort of a big deal given that you're not going the full aggro strategy.  Without Lightning Strike or Magma Jet, you are relying entirely on Chained to the Rocks for your ability to interact with the opponent's side of the board.  Admittedly Martial Glory is going to be pseudo-removal in the sense that nobody will see those pumps coming in combat, but at the end of the day, against a threat like Desecration Demon (who you will be seeing a fair amount at an FNM), you have only a few options.  Perhaps you could slide in Warleader's Helix somewhere in place of those other two Boros Charms?

2) Wingsteed Rider really is not ideal at the three spot.  Chandra's Phoenix makes up for its weaknesses via haste and its ability to return from the yard in response to any burn damage.  Wingsteed is simply a 2/2 flyer with a small heroic pump - and let's be honest, you're going to want to try to trigger heroic on Phalanx Leader and Fabled Hero far more than you would want on the rider.

3) If you're looking for one-drops, why go with Legion Loyalist when you could just as easily go with Soldier of the Pantheon?  Soldier can deal with a LOT of opposing threats via the protection - think Rakdos Cackler or Burning-Tree Emissary while also offering non-inconsequential life gain in response to multicolored threats.  An alternative is Favored Hoplite - but the same issue with your heroic triggers applies.

The catch, of course, is that emphasizing one-drops will focus you more in toward an aggro strategy.  I can certainly see the justification for Soldier, but if you're looking for another creature, Cavalry Pegasus strikes me as a better option, given that it will give your entire team flying (and evasion wins games I hear).