Act of Aggresion and efect like that

Aici am o intrebare: deci Mimic Vat-ul zice ca trebuie sa-l exilezi la inceputul URMATORULUI end step, deci daca la sfarsitul turei faci o copie, logic ca-ti ramane pe battlefield tura ta. Dar Act Of Aggression zice ca pana la sfarsitul turei respective controlezi creatura. Acuma furatul cu AoA nu este inca in tura respectiva? Deci daca it ifur eu cu Aoa la sfarsitul turei tale, asta e inca tura ta nu? deci practic tura nu se termina acolo, ci dupa ce am furat. Nu trebuie sa-ti dau inapoi creatura?

514. Cleanup Step

514.2. Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack.

514.3. Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:

514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger "at the beginning of the next cleanup step"). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass, another cleanup step begins.

(514.1 facea referire la Maximum hand-size. M-am gandit ca nu are relevanta)
Ce inteleg din asta e ca, daca dai Act of Aggression, o sa inceapa un alt cleanup step care o sa anuleze efectul vrajii? Is this right?

NEEDS MOAR JACE...

Act zice ca este until eot, deci va tine pana in end step..care este imediat dupa eot, cand poti face aceasta vraja.
El merge cu deceiver pentru ca spliterul creeaza un delayed triggered ability, si tokenii iti vor ramane tine, dar deceiverul original se duce inapoi. toto de asta e bien sa il dai tapat inapoi ca sa nu faca si el tokeni si sa iti blocheze pe ai tai.

si nu nu este vorba de cleanup step. Ci de end step:

513. End Step
513.1. First, all abilities that trigger “at the beginning of the end step” or “at the beginning of the next
end step” go on the stack. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”)
513.1a Previously, abilities that trigger at the beginning of the end step were printed with the trigger
condition “at end of turn.” Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the
Oracle card reference to say “at the beginning of the end step” or “at the beginning of the next
end step.”
513.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.
513.3. If a permanent with an ability that triggers “at the beginning of the end step” enters the
battlefield during this step, that ability won’t trigger until the next turn’s end step. Likewise, if a
delayed triggered ability that triggers “at the beginning of the next end step” is created during this
step, that ability won’t trigger until the next turn’s end step. In other words, the step doesn’t “back
up” so those abilities can go on the stack. This rule applies only to triggered abilities; it doesn’t
apply to continuous effects whose durations say “until end of turn” or “this turn.” (See rule 514,
“Cleanup Step.”)

Edited to reflect the real rule. Sorry

Last edited by Scorpse (2011-08-22 10:28:27)

Eu nu cred ca-i delayed trigger effect... delayed triggered effect ii ce creaza mimic vat pentru token, efectul asta ii mai degraba ca un land animat sau Giant Growth, un efect static care expira la final de tura. Din cate tin minte "beginning of the end step" a fost introdus in loc  de "at end of turn" tocmai ca sa elimine din confuzia cauzata de "end step" si end of turn-ul actual.

Am gasit si articolul in care o explicat rule change-ul:

Cartea zice until end of turn, nu zice "until the beginning of the end step"... si da, pe end step poti juca spell-uri, dar pe end of turn nu.

da corect m-am luat cu altele si m-am gandit la altceva...

ma gnadeam ca iti raman tokenii de deceiver insa cel original pleaca la locul lui...... !!!

silly me....

da ..efectul se face din eot pana pe end step.... delayul este cel al splinterului. el are un static gain control effect.

sorry pt greseala. asta cand mai dai un ochi pe forum cand muncesti

Last edited by Scorpse (2011-08-22 10:30:21)

da expira...eu aveam in gand trigerul delayed de la splinter twin.....

si am pus deja errata :d

mai gresim si noi....ideea sa ajungem la rezultatul cre trebuie.

Last edited by Scorpse (2011-08-22 10:31:57)

Vai spoook, de cand esti asa de modest?

Anyway, concluzia ii ca act of agression pe splinter twinned exarch tot ii play awesome, nu? Doar sa fie dat cu grija, pe exarch tapat

lasa-ma sa ma bucur si eu un pic

sper ca nici Scorpse nu se supara...stiu ca nu se supara

Si da... e bine daca ajungi sa dai pe exarch si idea este ca dupa ce ai facut o multime de tokeni, sa ramai cu exarch tapat, inca pe tura adversarului, sa dai inapoi tapat (in timp ce ii explici de ce trebuie sa dea conceed )

Se poate ca partea asta cu act sa mutam separat, sa nu stricam threadul de Natioanale?

Last edited by Spoook (2011-08-22 10:45:49)

Gabi aici ratezi frumusetea efectului. TU poti sa-i furi Exarch-ul, sa faci o tona de copii, dupa care dai Exarch-il tapat inapoi cu tot cu splinter iar pe tura ta il ataci cu tokenii facuti pentru damage letal. Si se poate!

Exact.