So this is the deck that I used at my LGS, I won 4 of 7 matches, 2 were played against the only person who didn't win a single game, so I'm trying to figure out what to do, I've that I can do nothing against control, so I'm thinking about adding in some negate(s), I am also open to any advice, I'm keeping the splicers and focusing on the shape anew combo but I'm not sure what else to do, any advice would be great!

http://deckbox.org/sets/182259

I found that I wasn't drawing what I needed, I'm considering adding
Tempered Steel
Ponder
Mana Leak
Negate
Levitation
Turn Away
Day of Judgement
Pacifism
Suture Priest
Stonehorn Dignitary
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
and Sideboarding
Demystify
Celestial Purge
These are just the cards I have already, I'm very willing to trade for more

Obviously "Control" includes a LOT of possibilities. Could you be more specific what you struggled against?

As far as counterspells and the like are concerned, based on what you said I would imagine you'll benefit more from Turn Aside than Mana Leak or Negate. I like how Shape Anew works for you here as Blightsteel Colossus is the only artifact there. I would suggest adding Platinum Emperion in the place of one Colossus, as then they REALLY need to focus on removal to even try to beat you (and it's standard legal through October). Considering the amount of flickering you have, it should be relatively easy to protect one creature, especially with the addition of Turn Aside.

Also, if you're sitting on a Tamiyo, you might as well give her a shot in place of one of the Vensers. After all, you can't have both Vensers out there and you might as well make them think twice regarding which planeswalker they want to focus on.

I can see where Tempered Steel could help, but 3/3 creatures en masse aren't easy to deal with on their own. There's definitely no need for Levitation as you already have flying defense/offense with Wingcrafter and Wing Splicer. Day of Judgement could be fun, but only if you manage to flicker your important creatures when it hits.

I'm anxious to hear how this continues to play out as you already know my Power Bill deck is similar (although still under construction as I'm getting the remaining cards).

My main issues were that I went up against a lot of mana leak, dissipate, Despise, and Distress, I've re-worked it a bit and come up with this

http://deckbox.org/sets/186880

I'm not sure about theTurn Aside compared to the negate since turn aside is pretty much strictly defensive whereas I can stop up planeswalkers and can prevent people from countering my spells with negate

As far as platinum emperion that's a good idea, but Ill have to test it a bit, i'm not sure if the defense is worth the offensive loss since I kindof want to shape anew into a win. Also I believe Platinum is useless against infect which i'm worried about since it's standard.

I'm also not going to drop a Venser, The Sojourner because I didn't get it often enough tonight, i'd just add a Tamiyo.

The main idea of the tempered steel is just cause then my opponent needs a */3 to block my Blightsteel and not die, not to mention I faced a Curse of Death's Hold and saw someone bring out an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite so I'm a little worried about the 3/3's

I'm currently thinking about keeping Day of Judgment in my sideboard since there was a no creature deck being played

Also do you think sideboarding x2 demystify and x2 celestial purge is better than x4 dismember?

I also have Gideon Jura, Jace, memory adept, and Elspeth Tirel think any are worth sideboarding/adding? or if it's worth splashing black for Sorin, lord of Innistrad?

I feel terrible for adding Snapcasters but they're really the missing piece, allowing me to get discarded/countered Shape Anews back

Also thinking about at least sideboarding an Angel of Glory's Rise since the only Non-Human creatures I have in my deck are the stags, which I might cut and the Blightsteels

First off, what do the Snapcasters accomplish? From the look of the construction, Shape Anew is only going to get a Blightsteel Colossus or Platinum Emperion (as in there aren't any other artifacts for it to pull). So outside of the opponent countering one, really, why would you need a Snapcaster to flashback Shape Anew?

Negate vs Turn Aside is definitely going to be up to you. I just know that non-countering decks that use creature control would be easier to deal with using Turn Aside given that it's one cheaper, but that should come down to what you're playing against.

My only reasoning for the Venser - Tamiyo swap was to avoid having one Venser in play with the other one stuck in your hand. But more is normally better, so you can stick with that (I personally like going to 65 cards as opposed to 60 as I'm sure you've noticed).

For Tempered Steel it's a take it or leave it card. If things go correctly, you can deal with things like Curse of Death's Hold and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. Remember that the key to the deck is flickering and exiling things. If you're wanting to be more competitive, why not use Sundial of the Infinite? Sure it's a dick move for casual play with friends, but then you can use both Glimmerpoint Stag AND Oblivion Ring to take out their stuff. Shape Anew would still yield a game changing card no matter what, with Sundial letting you exile their stuff, Emperion being both an 8/8 AND preventing your life total from changing, and Blightsteel giving you an 11/11 trample-infect. Sounds like you can't lose any way it plays out. OR, you can leave the Tempered Steel out with the knowledge that Venser's often forgotten second ability wins the game as soon as the Colossus can attack.

I'm saddened to see the majority of your flickering stuff moved to the sideboard :(. Ghostly Flicker is essential to this being a real flickering deck and not just another deck built around Venser. The thought of flickering Venser or something else important while Elspeth Tirel destroys all the other nontoken, nonland permanents is pretty funny too. To that end, there's no reason Venser couldn't flicker himself, right?

I'm using snapcaster partially because of the ghostly flicker being moved to sideboard, it gives me an extra use on the spells i've cast and I got milled to death along with having people take everything good out of my hand, against most decks I would sub out the snapcasters for 2 ghostly flickers but against the decks that I faced, I'm better off having access to the spells in my graveyard. I was never able to effectively use ghostly flicker, the best use I ever got out of it was to flicker 2 Splicers, but at that point I already had a Blightsteel out on the field, I didn't have the mana to get creatures on the board and play a flicker. It would also make it easier to get both Blightsteels out on the field at the same time since I usually have bad luck when it comes to drawing. And my opponents did counter my shape anews, my deck is fairly slow so everyone watched the end of my first match and so everyone knew exactly what I was doing :(

I am sad to pull a little bit away from the flicker mechanic, I'm still planning to figure out a way to put the Ghostly flickers back into the main deck because they're really the best chance I have to win without blightsteel since using Venser as a win condition is stupid. Any recommendations on what to cut aside from snapcasters? I was thinking if I keep the snapcasters then I could sub out a negate and a ponder to put in 2 ghostly flicker (I also want to run 4 Glimmerpoints because that thing was amazing with cloudshift, it stopped attackers and was essentially free because I flickered my plains with the stag :)) So I guess I'm asking for recommendations about what to cut to put back in 2 Deadeye Navigatiors, since I never got a chance to use them, my opponents always threw everything they could at them, lol

In regards to the Platinum Emperion, I'm still thinking about it but my worry is just that it won't really do anything, in every game that I got out my Blightsteel I won and that was without any counters so I don't want to change what's working you know? Another thing was that the only deck that didn't run counterspells had Vault of the Archangel and the deathtouch was rendered useless to the Blightsteel but it would've screwed over the Emperion, and i needed to block one or I would die

Yes Venser can flicker himself, this is very true and a part of the reason that I wanted to include boardwipes. My issue with Elspeth is that I produce a couple large tokens not a ton of little ones so her + 2 wouldn't get me much life, I was actually leaning more toward Gideon because he's very flexible, he can be removal or draw the attack or force blocking/removal but I'll probably try swapping each of them out with Tamiyo to see what fits

I'm trying to keep Shape Anew purely for blightsteel since I can't be sure of a Sundial or Emperion winning the game. For permanent removal I'm thinking aboutExclusion Ritual, thoughts? That way I can flicker it to different creatures, I'd run it as a 2 of.

I'm gonna ditch tempered steel, I'm putting in 4 O-rings so that should be enough to deal with any pesky enchantments or creatures (hopefully) and it fits the theme of the deck better in my opinion

The other thing about Turn aside is just that Cloudshift really should do the same thing, they cast a spell at one of my creatures, bye bye creature

Sorry that this is so scattered I'm just not really sure what I want to do, I'm not used to being limited to so few cards and having multiples, lol

Edit: Made some changes, now I'm thinking I should drop ponder entirely, it's nice but doesn't fit the deck and I think I would be better off with Ghostly Flicker

On an unrelated note I made another standard deck, this one focuses on not letting opponents do anything fun, it hoses graveyards, flicker, tokens, most decks that aren't just make something big and trample all over my face.

http://deckbox.org/sets/187256

The main cards of the deck are the artifacts grafdigger's cage, torpor orb, isolation cell, witchbane orb, and Norn's Annex the idea being my opponent cannot do anything to me without having to pay for it, Norn's Annex is kindof the star, if my opponent has one pumped up creature I'll just tap it during their upkeep with Gideon's Lawkeeper or Blinding Souleater. This way I can (hopefully) make sure that them attacking me hurts them more than it hurts me. With the addition of Isolation Cell they're going to have to wait a few turns to cast or lose more life. Torpor Orb can shut down Snapcaster Mage decks which almost everyone I faced had. Lastly Grafdigger's Cage is pretty obvious, stops up bring back stuff from graveyards, so Snapcasters, Flashback, Undying, and other fun stuff.

The idea behind the Requiem Angel is again, even if you manage to kill one of my creatures I'll just get a new one. I might end up cutting them in favor of Indomitable Archangels to protect all of my pretty artifacts, Angel of Jubilation and Grand Abolisher are just more insurance that my opponent can't do anything, especially the Abolisher since my opponents wouldn't be able to cast instant-speed stuff at the end of my turn to save mana to pay for my other taxes.

Issues I forsee: one well timed Devastation tide would wipe me out
My creatures are vulnerable
I don't really have a finisher type creature aside from Gideon's Avenger and that's risky
Mana ramp green decks will just laugh at my attempts to stop their attacks
Other things I can't think of right now

Thoughts I had
Splash blue, it has as good if not better creature tapping abilities and counters
Splash Black mainly for Painful Quandary
Putting in Stony Silence to combo with the Annex so no one can attack me
Gideon Jura, if they have no white and I force them to attack with everything if could finish them off without risking myself

Any thoughts?

Major credit to shade36 for suggesting Knowledge Pool with curse of Exhaustion, my opponent can no longer play spells :) lol that I didn't come up with what is clearly the best combo in the deck

First, would you mind moving the last post about the new deck to another thread? It helps me keep things straight. I'll happily comment on it there.

Okay, so for the flicker deck...

For the Snapcasters, I completely understand why you're using them (lord knows, if everyone else is, why not?). Personally I've always liked breaking from the norms a bit with my decks and not going with everyone else's ideas (hence my distaste for Hellnikko's Delver deck). However, given the straying from the flicker theme, I'm curious if you might be better served to just make this a pure artifact token generation deck, rather than trying to hang onto something that's not the key mechanic going on. For instance, Tezzeret, the Seeker would let you pull the Blightsteel Colossus same as Shape Anew but without the fear of countering (unless they counter him, at which point you've used one of their counters and have better odds of successfully getting Shape Anew out.

The key for the Platinum Emperion is that it will almost certainly prolong the game for long enough that you could either get a Blightsteel or otherwise pull off Venser's third ability or even something else nasty. In response to the Vault of the Archangel, the deathtouch COULD screw with the Emperion, but only if they're using it for a blocker. If they're attacking, just let the creatures through, as your life total won't change anyway. To that end, you could also swing a Darksteel Colossus as it's indestructible. All three of them are golems, so they would get the flying and whatnot from the splicers too.

My other thought on including Sundial of the Infinite is obvious with the permanent exiling mechanic, but it also would make the opponent have to consider more than just Shape Anew as a target for their counterspells. It's addition by substraction, as you're less likely to Shape Anew into Blightsteel Colossus but it will make them pay more mind to Glimmerpoint Stag, Venser, Oblivion Ring or a wealth of other things.

My reasoning for Elspeth over Gideon or the others is her third ability when mixed with a flickering mechanic. She can completely clear the board with the exceptions of tokens and, if flickered, herself and perhaps another key permanent or two. You dump her ability and then before it resolves Ghostly Flicker her and one of the splicers... you end up completely screwing your opponent, keeping your tokens, generating a new token, and laughing your way to victory.

Lastly, I know the ability is expensive for Nephalia Smuggler, but it ensures at least one more way to flicker things so that you can save Cloudshift for more dire circumstances (or they can help protect Deadeye Navigator). Perhaps I'm still too hung up on flickering (as my deck isn't complete yet so I've yet to really play it), but I'm thinking that it still is at the center of something really fun.

The thing about going straight artifacts is that most of the support, IE Tezzeret the Seeker and Darksteel Colossus is that they aren't standard and the store that I play at is exclusively standard :( I know that standard is restrictive and In my opinion, not meant to offend anyone, less fun, but I'd rather be able to play than not

You're right about the snapcaster, I might include them but if so then it would be because it interacts well with the flicker mechanic, it can be flickered the same as anything else, but I'm not going to cut any Flickering elements in favor of them, the deck is a flicker deck and that's alot more fun to play than the same deck as everyone else. I'm glad that you kept me from selling out :) I can maintain my thought that my decks are fairly original for the most part (probably an illusion but I can pretend lol)

You do make a good point about the sundial pulling counters away from the shape anews while it can still have a major impact on the game, however it would present a problem if I don't have a Venser out, because then I'm stuck with a dial and nothing to do with it.

Wow i'm dumb, I was thinking about using the Emperion to block their creatures, lol, it does sound a lot more appealing now, I will for sure test it out especially since people don't fear an Emperion the same way they fear a Blightsteel. I like the idea of using the Emperion especially with Tamiyo because the pairing could really slow down the game and allow me to overrun them with Golems. Also I could usually swing with the Emperion because I would usually have a Blade Splicer out and I don't know many things that have > 8 toughness to survive the first strike.

Again I love Elspeth, she's literally my favorite Planeswalker, my biggest issue is actually that she's in my favorite deck and I don't plan to prioritize standard decks over that one, however I could just swap her out on gamedays. I agree about the sweeping, my only issue is of course the large uselessness of her +2 since she will gain me very little but some life is better than none so I'll probably try her out, she seems like the best other option, but is she better than Tamiyo? I'm actually thinking so since Tamiyo doesn't really fit the theme at all.

My current issue with the Smugglers is that I don't think there's room, I would have to choose if I prefer those to wingcrafters and I don't think I like them better, unless you have a different suggestion on what to cut?

You're right about the flickering being fun, in one game I got out a Blightsteel which got Vapor Snagged but then I proceeded to smash face with like 10 Flying Golems, it was very nice that I had another win condition, I don't really
like using the Blightsteel combo, since it's kinda not along with the idea of flickering, the people I play with at the store are too competitive for a really fun flicker deck.

I do really encourage you to go for full out flicker, I'm very anxious to hear about several of your decks, flicker, squirrel, merfolk mill, pretty much all of them :)

Oh, man.

Am I being called a sellout? :(

I only made the deck to understand it and see what I could with the components I have. There weren't any swords in there and I never used Gut Shot....yet. It's also important to know how the opposing decks could look from the opponent's perspective. It's much different to view a deck and then some how know all it's idiosyncrasies. But, I did buy 2 more Geists, but I've always wanted a playset before Delver was popular. Especially to use with Venser and Sundials. Snapcasters, like it or not, are very versatile little things and can be used anywhere. For me, I will always like all things Blue and White.

There, I defended myself.

Now on to some advice! :P

I like it and you've got a sound plan. You both have brought up some good points and for a tourney like environment, you could very well use all the distractions you can. Sundial could be a great diversion as everyone is focusing on what you might be doing, you can still utilize your shape anew/Blightsteel colossus(or platinum emperion) combo. I know you're thinking you don't want to split into too many directions, but these two combos may work together without butting heads. The more choices you have at your disposal, the better.

And for the tourney play, I think you can stick with Cloudshift and Ghostly Flicker for the simple fact that you'll want quick fixes asap. And you can't always rely on Venser to flicker because you can only do it on your turn. I know TyWooOneTime loves Nephalia smuggler, but if he comes out in the early turns, you'll need to save up for his ability and even when that happens, you might want to save it for more dire things, like the counters to your opponent's counters you are talking about putting in. Plus, you'll advertise your plans imo.

And last but not least, if you put in another planeswalker, my vote is Gideon. He's so powerful when he comes out, he's a lure, an assassin, or an extra gun without having to save up his abilities extra turns. He's like a cupcake... An awesome cake in a little cup. Who the hell doesn't like cupcakes? :D

Hellnikko wrote:Oh, man.

Am I being called a sellout? :(

I only made the deck to understand it and see what I could with the components I have. There weren't any swords in there and I never used Gut Shot....yet. It's also important to know how the opposing decks could look from the opponent's perspective. It's much different to view a deck and then some how know all it's idiosyncrasies. But, I did buy 2 more Geists, but I've always wanted a playset before Delver was popular. Especially to use with Venser and Sundials. Snapcasters, like it or not, are very versatile little things and can be used anywhere. For me, I will always like all things Blue and White.

I don't mean that at all! You design very unusual decks, it's hardly selling out to try out a deck, I just really like designing decks to be creative so using certain cards that make almost any deck better makes me sad when I use them because I feel like I'm cheating, hence why I don't use titans or swords but even those things are justified in the right deck, if you're running a Rafiq of the Many deck, you'd be silly not to use swords cause the whole idea is to have one super pumped up creature that can set off the sword's abilities several times per turn, my issue is someone putting swords into a deck that it makes no sense to have them in

Basically no, I don't think you sold out at all, lol, I talk too much

I tried out the Sundial a little bit and whenever it came out it was extremely underwhelming, I can rarely have out Venser because people throw everything they've got into killing him and so my ability to flicker things like the Oblivion Ring is extremely limited. The Emperion had slightly better results, but again it was more like well now the game's gonna take a while rather than, this game will end if you don't draw a response right now! Since I'm pretty casual I prefer the in your face combo to one that might be more competitive but have less of a shock factor, the look on people's faces when I actually pull off a T4 Blightsteel that they didn't know was coming is amazing (Am I cruel?) I honestly think that the Emperion actually works better in a deck with Snapcasters because then I can T3 Blade Splicer T4 Wing/Blade Splicer/Flicker the Blade Splicer T5 Shape anew into one tank T6 Snapcaster into Shape Anew the other, and that's pretty much GG right there, It will require more testing however. My problem is that I'm trying to figure out a lot of elements at once and so I can't always tell if a change is helping or not.

I was considering Gideon for exactly that reason, especially if I have him and Tamiyo at the same time, that's sweet, but I only have one and I think he fits better in my Mono-White deck so I have to decide if I'm too lazy to switch out sleeves between decks :P On this same note, is using Tamiyo selling out? She doesn't really fit the flicker theme, my main idea was just if I could get her ultimate off then I could re-use cloudshift a bazillion times.

I have had no success with Nephalia Smuggler, if I wasn't playing standard I would run a playset alongside some training grounds in a second but I've almost never had 4 mana open to flicker, maybe sometimes it would be nice but very rarely, the only reason I would consider playing it is because of opponents using Mana Leak since flickering to avoid getting my blockers killed tends to result in my spells getting countered, for some reason my opponents want my creatures to die, I don't get it :P, but I don't agree that it's too revealing, in fact I like that about it, a key part of my deck is that it seems like a normal flicker deck so people won't expect a Blightsteel in their face

On a side note: one of my opponents had played me before and had sideboarded 4 Torpor orbs just for me since he didn't have counters, it completely shut me down, no tokens, which means no Blightsteel, nothing :(, Now I need to find some artifact removal for my sideboard, I used an O-ring, so he did the same, to my O-ring, he was very prepared it was like worst case scenario (I think me winning T5 pissed him off last time) (His antics did inspire my Mono-white deck however, so that's a plus)

O-ring is expensive as removal. You might want to mainboard Revoke Existence just for that reason? Kind of sucks that it would have to go that way just in case someone happened to use Torpor Orb, but it's a little versatile card.

And with Venser, I could see him being a target quickly. Maybe instead of using him to flicker, maybe it's best to just bring him out when you can get your opponent just slightly in range of your attack and then use his -1 ability for a GG? You'd just have to see if the other has lands untapped before hand just in case they intend to counter him.

TyWooOneTime wrote:Day of Judgement could be fun, but only if you manage to flicker your important creatures when it hits.

If you thought about responding to DOJ with flicker that trick doesn't work, because flicker spells resolve entirely before doj, and then doj sweeps the battlefield. (Except of course Venser, he brings back the permanent EOT)

fistyke wrote:

TyWooOneTime wrote:Day of Judgement could be fun, but only if you manage to flicker your important creatures when it hits.

If you thought about responding to DOJ with flicker that trick doesn't work, because flicker spells resolve entirely before doj, and then doj sweeps the battlefield. (Except of course Venser, he brings back the permanent EOT)

You could actually flicker a Glimmerpoint Stag any number of times in response and target one of your creatures w/ it's ETB.

NullParameter wrote:

fistyke wrote:

TyWooOneTime wrote:Day of Judgement could be fun, but only if you manage to flicker your important creatures when it hits.

If you thought about responding to DOJ with flicker that trick doesn't work, because flicker spells resolve entirely before doj, and then doj sweeps the battlefield. (Except of course Venser, he brings back the permanent EOT)

You could actually flicker a Glimmerpoint Stag any number of times in response and target one of your creatures w/ it's ETB.

That's very true, so Ideally I would flicker out a Creature with Venser and another one with a stag, that's something I'm going to need to remember because it's the kind of thing I'd forget for a match

Hellnikko wrote:O-ring is expensive as removal. You might want to mainboard Revoke Existence just for that reason? Kind of sucks that it would have to go that way just in case someone happened to use Torpor Orb, but it's a little versatile card.

And with Venser, I could see him being a target quickly. Maybe instead of using him to flicker, maybe it's best to just bring him out when you can get your opponent just slightly in range of your attack and then use his -1 ability for a GG? You'd just have to see if the other has lands untapped before hand just in case they intend to counter him.

Well I like the Revoke Existence since I almost never played a game where they didn't have an annoying enchantment of some sort that I would have liked to get rid of, so revoke existence sounds like a good card, if it was just artifacts not so much but I think it's versatility will make it useful, good call!

With Venser I really needed to use his flicker just to get enough Golems to overrun their life since they like to counter my flicker spells :(

With Venser I really needed to use his flicker just to get enough Golems to overrun their life since they like to counter my flicker spells.

I totally hear you guys about the cost of Nephalia Smuggler and it might be just my limited experience playing competitively, but the idea of a one casting cost creature that can guarantee a flicker engine for the more important pieces like Glimmerpoint Stag, well, count me in. I thought the cost was too high myself when I first saw it, but then I also thought the same thing about Moonlight Geist until it managed to win an entire draft tourney for me.

That aside (and I've been out of it for a few days), not saying you sold out Hellnikko, just that Delver decks have, for better or for worse, been done to death. I agree that if it works and everyone uses it, you might as well do the same, but I have more fun doing something weird and losing than playing someone else's deck and winning (but that's just my preference). Best of luck with that one though.

Keep in mind, I'm not taking it anywhere. It's good to know what it's weakness is. I like deckbuilding for it's puzzle solving too. That's probably my favorite and why I want to help discuss decks like this.

Ok, we've got an update, using this build: http://deckbox.org/sets/186880 I got stomped, 1 win out of 7 games :(, kinda bruised my ego a bit, but I did have a win against the guy who won overall so that's a plus. Main problem was my deck is too slow, I need more early game cards, as such I think I'm going with this build: http://deckbox.org/sets/192948 any thoughts about quick cards that'd help (still in standard folks) I also need a 15 card sideboard not 17, Ideas?

Main changes: Took out snapcasters, they suck against aggressive decks
Added cathedral sanctifiers, they will give me extra time
Added suture priests, same idea as above
Swapped out negates for leaks :( I hate doing it but it seems like the best idea

For lands I didn't use the Moorland Haunts today but I like the idea of them, worthwhile or no? I never really got color screwed so I like them.

Ok, so I've made some sweeping changes to the original deck, the primary idea is that the main deck is a Shape Anew deck, it has a few flicker components but it's mostly just designed to make the combo happen, but the sideboard is what I really like about the deck, I can fairly often win game 1 (hopefully) then my opponent is like "lets sideboard in anti-shape anew tech and stomp face" so I sideboard out shape anew and everything involved with it and bring in all of my flicker stuff, then I token overflow them with Geist-Honored Monks and such while gaining life and draining theirs with the Suture Priests

http://deckbox.org/sets/192948

I tested it out today and I won game one then almost won game 2 but they miracled in a terminus :( I had no cards in hand and like 6 life so I just scooped