http://deckbox.org/sets/521181

So I have been working on this red/white borros/aggro deck to bring to FNM and I am just want to get some opinions. The main strategy of this deck has been to do as much damage as fast as possible with the majority of the cards being 2-3 mana. My sideboard consists mainly of cards that I recently switched out for new cards like the boros reckoner and chandra's phoenix. I am working on getting some boros charm and aurelia's fury hopefully in the near future. Another fabled hero would be nice since first strike/doublestrike is key to this deck, also haste. I love attacking on round 3-4 with a small doublestrike creature and dropping a couple titan's strength or bloodrush scorchwalker and do like 8-16 damage depending on the particular card combination.

Im thinking of dropping the daring skyjeck and throwing back in the 2nd judge's familiar and wojek halberdiers. Also if I get my hands on a purphoros, god of the forge it will most likely go in and in that case I would most definitely get more ash zealots but not sure if going that route is worth it. Right now when looking at it seems like I have too many scattered creature cards(no 4 of's) but it tends to work really well in practice at home with friends. any thoughts?

So obviously results will vary based on how competitive your local FNM is, but my base assumption is that you're going to get killed pretty hard. The biggest problem isn't the strategy so much as the lack of consistency in play. You REALLY need to have something that performs consistently to do well in a competitive environment. As such, just as you said, you'll need 3-4x of most cards to really provide what you're looking for.

That being said, cards to focus on include:

Legion Loyalist, Foundry Street Denizen, Ash Zealot, Daring Skyjek, Firefist Striker, Imposing Sovereign, Boros Reckoner, Chandra's Phoenix, and Aurelia (who actually did pretty well at the TCG 50K Diamond event). In reality, you're going to want to top your curve off at four with Fanatic of Mogis or something to that end.

I would honestly suggest looking at the Boros and RDW builds that have put up solid numbers in the recent tourneys (you can find them at http://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.asp) and use that as a template to strive toward. You don't have to match it card-for-card, and in fact, I would encourage you not to; but, go ahead and recognize that these decks are tested a LOT by the various players who have spent countless hours trying to figure out the best cards, combos, and strategies. As such, why re-invent the wheel?

If you're looking for a heroic style, Craig Wescoe actually JUST wrote an article on an amusing build, although it's Azorius colors - so why not make it "Real American Heroes" and make R/U/W heroic? You can find Wescoe's article here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11485) and a quick take I had on the three color deck idea here (http://deckbox.org/sets/523862).

Be creative, but keep in mind that the competitive game is a far different animal than the kitchen table. You'll want higher numbers of the cards you use most and rely on most to win the game.

I hope this helps... Good luck!

I have already looked at dozens of RDW and boros decks on tcg for many weeks now but I do not enjoy just copying others in that way.. when looking at a tourny that has the 1st and 2nd person using the exact same deck just 2 cards differ, I find that lame even though that obviously means it works. Heroic is nice.. but I dont want it as my main strategy thats why I dont have 4 daring skyjek in the deck even though I own 4. I have a 3rd skyknight legionnaire but took it out since I have 2 of them and 2 chandra's phoenix which are practically the same card so a 5th didnt seem important to me.. I do have 3 two-headed cerberus which is a main card for my strat. I have 2 anax and cymede because of legendary status and honestly aurelia, the warleader almost never sees play since the game ends too quick but I leave her in just in case it drags out.

Really my whole purpose is to get something doublestrike out and buff it out whether it be with enchantments or just dropping instants. Since I only have 5 doublestrike creatures and ajani, caller of the pride to make a 6th, I sometimes just buff other creatures that get through but speed has not been a problem with this deck so far since only 1 card is more than 3 mana (rubblebelt maaka, and scorchwalker both will only be used for bloodrush. The wild guess's allow me to drop extra land since I dont need much and get out some key cards faster.Boros reckoner I would love to have 4 of but thats an expensive card Im not currently going to flatout buy so that just is what it is right now. I have only recently put in 2 chained to the rocks which should help me get rid of things like master of waves.

Im expecting to go up against alot of devotion decks.. mono blue, R/G domri rade, possibly mono black but I think the fact that practically everything I have is firststrike will slow down the opponent alot. A board wipe would hurt but by that time I should have enough mana to drop multiple creatures on the next turn so not to concerned with that. And with gift of immortality something is staying out most likely. You say to top my curve off at 4 but honestly I find that to be too slow. I want fast and hard no homo lol. thank you for your input though, I love critisizm

I understand the reluctance to net-deck, believe me, I do. But putting multiples into a deck to increase consistency is just smart deckbuilding, it has nothing to do with net-decking or anything of that sort. So running 1x Daring Skyjek versus 4x is just saying that you don't really want to draw it consistently, which then says, you just don't need the card at all and can drop it. Refusing to net-deck is one thing, but refusing to add card consistency will simply result in your deck failing to perform.

As far as topping the curve off at four, you say that's too slow, but the most aggressive decks out there top out at four. RDW famously topped at four with Hellrider pre-rotation and now runs Fanatic of Mogis. Further, you tell me that topping at four is too slow, but you put a six-drop in the deck? If Aurelia is only for games that go long, put her in the SB as you don't need her most of the time. But more importantly, aggro decks will either win the game by turn 6 or the game is typically lost by then. So a six-drop really doesn't make sense.

For mono-black. Yes, you have first strike, but they have targeted removal... a LOT of it. Their job isn't to win creature combat. As such, Gift of Immortality is never going to resolve as they can take out the target at instant speed. Do you have answers to Desecration Demon? Whip of Erebos? Gray Merchant? As you sit I only see two cards that could deal with one. So unless you're getting a T4 kill every game (which you won't), you have something of a problem.

For mono-blue, Master of Waves has pro-red, so again, your only option at the moment is Chained to the Rocks... strikes me as a bit of a problem.

For R/G devotion, they're going to be dropping a LOT of creatures faster than you can...

So, what can you do about it? Again, I would suggest using one of the tourney decks as A STARTING POINT to then deviate from based on the cards you have and the strategy you would like to adopt. If you're all about double-strike, then get another 3x Fabled Hero, 1x Two-Headed Cerberus, and 3x Fencing Ace. Toss in some Fireshriekers and focus then on some spot removal and pump spells for them. It's not that hard to make the changes, but simply denouncing all the time and work someone else put into the decks you see online just for the sake of "not net-decking" is silly. It is possible to look at someone's idea and figure out how to apply your own ideas to the deck...

A few added thoughts:

1) Chandra's Phoenix, mana permitting, is better than Skyknight Legionnaire 100 out of 100 times. Why? It can come back with a burn spell. Skyknight dies, it's gone. But also, why not run 5x of a 2/2 flying haste? Flying wins a LOT of games.

2) If you're wanting a TON of speed, why are there only two one-drops? Foundry Street Denizen will almost NEVER attack for just one. Soldier of the Pantheon and Dryad Militant are both good options here too - although I cannot stress enough how much Firedrinker Satyr is bad.

3) Again, if you're after speed, where is Burning-Tree Emissary? It's literally a free 2/2 that can help trigger battalion and the like.

4) If you really want an unorthodox way to go with things, figure out how to run a deck with 4x Firemane Avenger. It costs all of a dollar per card and can be a real threat, taking out blockers, pinging the opponent, all while gaining you life.

5) Boros Charm? Your board wipe worries are significantly less if you have 4x of these. Alternately, Rootborn Defenses but that's more expensive and you likely won't get any benefit out of the populate trigger.

6) Temple of Abandon really is worth looking into getting a few copies. The scry can be really big for you.

7) Hammer of Purphoros can also really help a build like this, giving stuff haste and even turning late game land draws into 3/3 golems.

8) Additionally, if you're on the double-strike train, why not up the copies of Madcap Skills to 4x and toss in Dragon Mantles? Both are GREAT for double-strike creatures and the mantle even replaces itself by letting you draw another card. Both open the door to get two-for-one'd, but such is the case with auras.

9) Perhaps Tajic would find a welcome home here? Indestructible is a thing these days I hear...

Ultimately how you decide to modify it is your business, but keep in mind that taking someone else's deck and modifying it is NOT net-decking (taking someone else's decklist card-for-card is). I cannot stress how it pained me to start looking at decklists and such myself, but in the world of competitive magic you will lose a LOT if you refuse to add multiples of cards for consistency or to recognize that some people do this for a living, lucky bastards, and we would be well to at least consider that they might know what they're doing.

oh dont get me wrong I have and do look at top decks thats probably the main place I get ideas for cards to put in my deck, and would love more of certain cards that I dont have yet like fabled hero. tajic is something I have really been thinking about because of that indestructible, unfortunately when I last went to the shop I went with anax while my buddy went for tajic and there werent enough for both of us. totally agree on the aurelia comment cause like I said she has been almost useless in most games so far, she will most likely end up in SB because of that. Hammer is something I have tried and didnt like the feel of in the past.. to make the hammer really work I need to get it out fast, and even in those situations when I draw it really early, I find it better on those early rounds to drop things like chandra's phoenix or the viashino firstblade for a quick 4 damage so I took the hammer out. And the chandras ability to comeback hasnt really helped me much since I am not running alot of direct damage instants.. usually the ones I have are for the purpose of remove a creature thats in my way.

boros charm is a must for sure.. thats probably my next target card to get. burning-tree emissary is nice I just dont have any. I ran the dragon mantle before but removed it for some reason I cant remember. temple of abandon and sacred foundary are things I would love but cost is just too high for me to justify directly buying. that firemane avenger is something I will be keeping an eye out for, im definitely liking what it brings to the table as a replacement for aurelia.

I agree on the lack of 1 drops, I had more at one point but removed them for more chance of having a nice strong 2 drop for 2nd round. I was thinking of putting my favored hoplite's back but too many of them seemed to not really help me.

desecration demon is scary and ridiculous tbh lol. I really dont know how to deal with that without maybe putting in some pacifisms but I dont want to have too much targeted removal and get stuck in situations where I draw them instead of creatures when in a jam.

If I had a fire god I would run fanatic of mogis, hammer, more ash zealots and the such but without it it seems to not mesh together well.

But your right and I think I am going to max out the doublestrike creatures when I get a chance, this is just all I currently have. My thing has been trying to find a good balance between creatures and powerups.

again im not refusing to add more copies, I just dont have them and I am trying to decide which ones to go for without just dropping alot of money to try things out and realize I dont like how it goes.

Piffguru wrote:But your right and I think I am going to max out the doublestrike creatures when I get a chance, this is just all I currently have. My thing has been trying to find a good balance between creatures and powerups.

again im not refusing to add more copies, I just dont have them and I am trying to decide which ones to go for without just dropping alot of money to try things out and realize I dont like how it goes.

The key for you is going to be to get the most out of each heroic trigger. To be honest, Phalanx Leader would be a good fit here if you're really looking for those sorts of things. Additional spells for the triggers are Titan's Strength, Gods Willing, Dragon Mantle, Madcap Skills - I honestly wouldn't run more than that as you're already sitting on possibly 16 spells that require a valid target or they're dead cards.

For the Hammer, really since just about everything has haste anyway, you would probably actually hold it until T4 - T5, as you could easily drop it and then start converting lands into golems at that point since you'll need SOMETHING to overwhelm them with if the game has gone that long.

As for not having multiple copies of stuff yet, just put lands in the sleeves and put notes in front of them to serve as proxies to playtest the deck to see how it feels, how it performs and the like. You obviously can't play it in an FNM like that, but still, it's a start. Then if you need to pick up the cards, I'd suggest just checking on TCGPlayer as I'd wager you can pick the singles up cheaper that way and likely finish out the deck for like $5-20.

phalanx leader is something I really liked when I first made this deck, it hurt me to let it go but the double white land necessary was killing me, if I ended up with 2 plains on draw then that was pretty much the only card I could play, where as if I get 2 mountains or 1 and 1 then I could play everything else, so I decided to drop that.

I noticed that you havent said anything bout the judge's familiar, thats something I have been on the fence about for a while.. I had 2 in at one point but Im thinking of dropping them all together and getting more legion loyalist.

I had more battalion at one point so the daring skyjek made sense but im not sure its a good fit right now, maybe after I get more legion loyalists I can capitalize on it more but im not sure if I just should drop battalion all together.

Piffguru wrote:phalanx leader is something I really liked when I first made this deck, it hurt me to let it go but the double white land necessary was killing me, if I ended up with 2 plains on draw then that was pretty much the only card I could play, where as if I get 2 mountains or 1 and 1 then I could play everything else, so I decided to drop that.

I noticed that you havent said anything bout the judge's familiar, thats something I have been on the fence about for a while.. I had 2 in at one point but Im thinking of dropping them all together and getting more legion loyalist.

I had more battalion at one point so the daring skyjek made sense but im not sure its a good fit right now, maybe after I get more legion loyalists I can capitalize on it more but im not sure if I just should drop battalion all together.

I mean Judge's Familiar is an underrated card much of the time. It gives you a flying 1/1, so you're almost always dealing some damage, and, perhaps most importantly, everyone forgets about the ability to sack it to counter stuff, so you can often catch the opponent not paying attention and counter his Sphinx's Revelation/Hero's Downfall, etc. Is it necessarily an aggro card, not really, but I can think of worse things to be running.

The biggest problem with Legion Loyalist is that he never gets any bigger. Sure, setting off his battalion makes most of your guys win in combat, but on average, they can just take that damage to block and kill the loyalist and then just clean up next combat. If he were able to get +2/+0 on a regular basis, then he'd be much more effective.

Daring Skyjek is among the better two-drops given your colors. Compare it to the ones that are seeing the most play - Firefist Striker, Goblin Shortcutter, Burning-Tree Emissary. Compared to Firefist, sure, it cannot outright stop a blocker, but it's giving you an added power in a flying creature. Compared to Shortcutter, again, it cannot stop a blocker (only once this time), but it again has the same advantages. Compared to BTE, well, it actually costs mana as opposed to essentially being free like BTE, but that added power and flying are quite relevant, especially if you run things like Legion's Initiative, Spear of Heliod or Path of Bravery. So, pending you don't have the other pieces, I think Skyjek is a fine choice to run as a 4x.

so I went to FNM with the deck ive been talking about, and as predicted I got destroyed. LOL, lost every match, got close to winning about 3 of them but lack of control cards seemed to lead to my downfall. First guy had a few frostburn weird that with 4 toughness really slowed me down then started throwing down stormbreath dragon which just sealed the deal. 2nd guy beat me so easily I dont even remember what he had really, 3rd guy it was close each game but he ended up getting better draws when we ran out of cards in hand. 4th guy had really slow starts each time and I was doing damage, I got him down to less than 7 life both games before I got hit once but once he got enough land he did constant board control and he put out some assemble the legion and with no way of getting rid of an enchantment that shit just grew and grew and I got destroyed by like 15 1/1 haste soilders.

Been making alot of changes trying to give my deck a better end game since I was moving fast at first but never got overwhelming. Here is where Im currently at. let me know what you think.http://deckbox.org/sets/530106

My current plan is to expand on the cards fabled hero, phalanx leader. Get another ajani, caller of the pride, 2 boros charm, 2 aurelia's fury to add to main deck. Also thinking of adding 2-4 frontline medic

Based on the look of the new build, you're spreading yourself too thin in terms of the creature counts. Having 2x of something that will just win the game when it hits is one thing, but only having 2x or 1x of stuff like Rubblebelt Maaka or Tajic, really just won't cut it. Additionally, it looks like you've strayed enough that you're not clearly defined as either aggro or mid-range - a big no-no for competitive play.

I'm also seeing things like Wear // Tear in the mainboard when they are clearly sideboard cards. This is the whole point of a board, to be able to slide in things for a specific matchup or something problematic but that you won't need normally.

All that being said, you're horribly flooded with three-drops. You would be better suited to try and smooth out your curve. I'd even suggest trading some of the more costly pieces to get higher counts of the stuff you need, i.e., Archangel of Thune for another Reckoner or vice-versa. As these pieces are critical to the deck running smoothly and really need to be in higher counts.

If you'd like to give me a day or so, I can look at your inventory and will figure out an ideal build given what you have.

I got 4 rubblebelt maaka Im just using those for the bloodrush so I did 2 of those and 2 titans strength, instead of doing 4 of each I wanted to split it so I can choose the extra toughness when needed and the scry others, wear//tear was specifically for enchantments since I had nothing for them and they were a big deal at FNM for me, yes I would prob switch them out for something like messengers speed. Not much point in having more than 2 legendary like tajic and I dont even like em that much so I just like having 1 for the indestructible.

At one point I had a second archangel of thune but I sold that early on, I like its addition to this deck now but I wouldnt really want 4 of them since the mana cost is high, I think of it not as having 1x and 1x but 2x end game cards.

My reason for adding more 3 mana cards is cause of the experience I had last friday. It seemed that I would have a good start and decent mid but absolutely no end game. so Im trying to strengthen my midgame to allow for a better end, if that makes sense.

since I really want to expand on the fabled hero and phalanx leader I am thinking of getting my hands on spear of heliod and heliod, god of the sun

Piffguru wrote:I got 4 rubblebelt maaka Im just using those for the bloodrush so I did 2 of those and 2 titans strength, instead of doing 4 of each I wanted to split it so I can choose the extra toughness when needed and the scry others, wear//tear was specifically for enchantments since I had nothing for them and they were a big deal at FNM for me, yes I would prob switch them out for something like messengers speed. Not much point in having more than 2 legendary like tajic and I dont even like em that much so I just like having 1 for the indestructible.

At one point I had a second archangel of thune but I sold that early on, I like its addition to this deck now but I wouldnt really want 4 of them since the mana cost is high, I think of it not as having 1x and 1x but 2x end game cards.

My reason for adding more 3 mana cards is cause of the experience I had last friday. It seemed that I would have a good start and decent mid but absolutely no end game. so Im trying to strengthen my midgame to allow for a better end, if that makes sense.

I certainly understand why you chose to add the cards, but they really just aren't ideal in most scenarios. Rubblebelt Maaka is nice for the bloodrush, but keep in mind that bloodrush doesn't count as "casting" a spell and as such will NOT trigger heroic. So to that end, I would yank them immediately. You'll be much better off with Titan's Strength or something else that actually targets.

I get that you don't want to be sitting on a second legendary creature, but only having 1x Tajic is essentially saying you never want to draw him. If that's the case, cut him and put something else in his place that you DO want to draw.

The reason I suggest getting more Archangels is to increase consistency. Again, with it being only 1x, you really cannot count on actually drawing it with any reliability. Even bringing that count up to 2x doubles the odds you see it and makes it a much more likely end-game.

As you just said, you want to strengthen your mid-game, which means you're wanting to abandon the aggro strategy... I cannot stress enough, aggro decks will either win or lose the game 90% of the time by turn 5 or 6. So to that end, you really shouldn't CARE about not having a mid or late game. If you want one of those, well, then you're going to want to revamp the whole thing to be more mid-range, which is fine, but all the more reason to up the count of Archangel of Thune.

Additionally, I know WHY you want Wear // Tear, but that goes in the sideboard, as enchantment hate won't do you much good against RDW or a variety of other decks out there. At most it is good to remove Underworld Connections or Whip of Erebos against mono-black, but unless you're running into that deck every round, there isn't much sense in it being mainboard there either.

Like I said, I'll take a gander at your inventory and will see what you could do... but the question is, do you want to go mid-range or aggro? Do you want to feature heroic as your main strategy or are you interested in going another route? Are you completely sold that you HAVE to go with Boros or would you be fine changing it to Azorius?

oh wow I did not realize bloodrush didnt count towards heroic.. thought everything saying target creature.. except equipment would count, but that makes that decision very easy and I have 4 titans strength. My aggro strategy is probably gone at this point since I realized that I can aggro at home with friends easily but against competitive decks I would need to spend alot more $ to get it at a high level imo. So yea the mid-range idea seems to fit what I have been thinking.. still on the fast end since my main cards are 2-3 mana with 1 mana buffs.

Ok wear//tear can easily be moved to SB, I just got the fear of god put into me when I got destroyed by assemble the legion twice in a row and had just no way to stop it, and that was literally the only thing he had offensively.

Yes I am kind of sold on boros right now, and what im going for is double strike // heroic

Piffguru wrote:Yes I am kind of sold on boros right now, and what im going for is double strike // heroic

The key is if you're up for that strategy, U/W actually is better suited to be effective...

Since silverblade paladin rotated the viability of double strike is really limited to boros charm. What you need to do is focus on a solid RW aggro deck and just get some charms in for the double strike finisher. Also, don't forget about ajani.

Heroic just isn't there right now.

2nd place red devotion from dallas open
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60516

6th place white weenie from dallas open (also similar to 1st place deck from LA)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=60527

Build one of these decks and try it out. Tweak it for your meta game. Fast decks like this are good against control and sometimes just "win" even when the odds are down. If the video is up, there's a match between the 2nd place deck and a UW control. He burns the guy out in response to a sphinx's rev. Beautiful play.

http://deckbox.org/sets/537107

ok here is where im at now with the deck, I have more 4ofs now and feel its a little more consistent.

This version is considerably better than the previous, so you're definitely moving in the right direction. A few things I might would consider swapping out include:

Messenger's Speed --> Dragon Mantle or Madcap Skills
Ethereal Armor --> 1x more of both Spear of Heliod and Hammer of Purphoros

I would also suggest finding a way to up your land count to 21-23 - your curve tops at 4 with the two gods, but more importantly you want to guarantee you end up with that third land drop on-curve - something that might be a bit spotty with only 20 lands.

Otherwise, I can see where this is going to be decent at an FNM. Don't be afraid to keep tinkering with it in response to how it performs - but don't just toss out a card as bad if it's only bad in a specific match-up (that's what the SB is for!).

Good luck!

I'm a little less optimistic than Ty. For an aggro deck you're light on creatures; for a midrange deck you're light on bombs and for anything else the cards are just too random. Have you play tested this at all? How does it hold up against teir 1 decks? Teir 2?

Lands - You're at 20, which for an aggro deck might be okay, but you're not really an agro deck. Need the Sacred foundry's and a couple more temples. 2 color will be difficult to pull off without all the mana fixing available to you. The scry lands are of benefit in and of themselves just for the scry.

2 Boros Guildgate
7 Mountain
1 Mutavault
8 Plains
2 Temple of Triumph

Spells - this is your worst area. You have a hodge podge of random effects. Removal buffs, tricks. I'm not sure what plan you're on. Only a couple of these actually trigger heroic. If you want to go the removal route and play more of a control/burn matchup then there is definitely a deck for that. I'll post a list at the bottom.

1 Brave the Elements
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Ethereal Armor
2 Messenger's Speed
1 Silence
2 Boros Charm
2 Magma Jet
4 Martial Glory
1 Ratchet Bomb

Creatures - 17 creatures isn't enough to get you there in an aggro deck one sweeper and you're SOL. You'll never be able to put enough pressure on IMO. You need some effective one drops like Satyr, soldier of the pantheon, 2 drops like pricinct captain etc. And if you go midrange or aggro then you can drop everything here but reckoner and the bird.

4 Phalanx Leader
2 Anax and Cymede
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fabled Hero

Others - You're not going to have enough devotion to turn on the gods consistently and trying to run and turn on both is silly. Pick one or the other. Ajani goes in a white weenie type deck, not in a burn deck.

1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
____________________________________________________________________________________
This burn deck is a fantastic control/burn deck. It does a much better job of the plan (i think) you're on. The other thing about this deck is it's decently affordable and even a cheap version of it can be built if you need to sub some lands or side board cards.

9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph
21 lands

4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler
8 creatures

4 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Toil // Trouble
3 Warleader's Helix
31 other spells

Sideboard
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
3 Young Pyromancer

yea im really not going for full on aggro anymore with this deck. the messenger's speed cards are something I wouldnt mind dropping too much, currently its in so I can trample the doublestrikes and the extra red devotion and it helps buff up ethereal armor.

I just added in the chained to the rocks , ratchet bomb, silence to the mainboard so I can have some control of the board and the chained to the rocks helps the ethereal armors aswell. I still want 2 more boros charms and Im working on gettin a couple legion's initiative but right now this was the best blend of control and midrange I could come up with.

I was just wondering why I was having a little bit of a problem consistently getting that 3rd land out or even just the opposite color of what im drawing like starting with 2 plains and not getting the 1 mountain quick enough. so I might just add another land for that reason.

I agree with the statement of having a hodge podge of random spells thats probably the area I am going to be working on soon, I have been having a hard time getting my hands on more brave the elements which I would like atleast 1 more in mainboard. and silence and ratchet bomb are things I just recently got out of a draft so I figured its a good control card if I draw it but I dont really want to have 4 of em anyway, mayb 2. I love the boros charm and martial glory, and ethereal armor is something I really like for this deck since I end up having at least 2-3 enchantments on the field pretty quick so my fabled heros or phalanx leaders become big fast.

I dont really want this to be a burn deck so I like what ajani does for me. I got another 1 on the way, and I do have a second heliod so I might just go all out white with that and drop purphorous. Im really starting to phase out alot of the red cards I had but I really dont want to drop the r/w enchantments like boros charm, martial glory, legion's initiative, and chained to the rocks.

when I put everything out on my table and looked at what I was working with I noticed only 15 creatures which I was like whoa I need to fix something here so I added anax and cymede back in cause it fits the theme but Im thinking about dropping those 2 and putting in 4 1 mana creatures, just not sure what to choose there. mayb legion loyalist even though Im not doing battalion but I could trigger the trample effect which could be beneficial.

Ive wanted to put in dragon mantle but since I am not running alot of red anymore the fact that I have to tap red land each time to use the buff is a problem since I am usually not wanting to waste the land on that I would rather put out another creature 80% of the time. even with it being a free card I just couldnt bring myself to add it over the trample effect.

Also the gods are not really expected to always go creature. I like the purphoros cause of the extra 2 damage each turn basically and heliod actually becomes a creature most times its out but I love the vigilance effect.

Piffguru wrote:yea im really not going for full on aggro anymore with this deck. the messenger's speed cards are something I wouldnt mind dropping too much, currently its in so I can trample the doublestrikes and the extra red devotion and it helps buff up ethereal armor.

I just added in the chained to the rocks , ratchet bomb, silence to the mainboard so I can have some control of the board and the chained to the rocks helps the ethereal armors aswell. I still want 2 more boros charms and Im working on gettin a couple legion's initiative but right now this was the best blend of control and midrange I could come up with.

I was just wondering why I was having a little bit of a problem consistently getting that 3rd land out or even just the opposite color of what im drawing like starting with 2 plains and not getting the 1 mountain quick enough. so I might just add another land for that reason.

I agree with the statement of having a hodge podge of random spells thats probably the area I am going to be working on soon, I have been having a hard time getting my hands on more brave the elements which I would like atleast 1 more in mainboard. and silence and ratchet bomb are things I just recently got out of a draft so I figured its a good control card if I draw it but I dont really want to have 4 of em anyway, mayb 2. I love the boros charm and martial glory, and ethereal armor is something I really like for this deck since I end up having at least 2-3 enchantments on the field pretty quick so my fabled heros or phalanx leaders become big fast.

I dont really want this to be a burn deck so I like what ajani does for me. I got another 1 on the way, and I do have a second heliod so I might just go all out white with that and drop purphorous. Im really starting to phase out alot of the red cards I had but I really dont want to drop the r/w enchantments like boros charm, martial glory, legion's initiative, and chained to the rocks.

when I put everything out on my table and looked at what I was working with I noticed only 15 creatures which I was like whoa I need to fix something here so I added anax and cymede back in cause it fits the theme but Im thinking about dropping those 2 and putting in 4 1 mana creatures, just not sure what to choose there. mayb legion loyalist even though Im not doing battalion but I could trigger the trample effect which could be beneficial.

Ive wanted to put in dragon mantle but since I am not running alot of red anymore the fact that I have to tap red land each time to use the buff is a problem since I am usually not wanting to waste the land on that I would rather put out another creature 80% of the time. even with it being a free card I just couldnt bring myself to add it over the trample effect.

Also the gods are not really expected to always go creature. I like the purphoros cause of the extra 2 damage each turn basically and heliod actually becomes a creature most times its out but I love the vigilance effect.

So to this end, the reason I said to drop Ethereal Armor is because the creatures you're likely going to put it on are already pretty easy targets (and who will draw removal anyway), i.e., Fabled Hero whose "double-strike" is also like a big red target on his back. Swapping it for Dragon Mantle is better for a variety of reasons - one, it triggers heroic, two, it gives the OPTION of pumping (whether you only do it once or more is up to you and your mana base) and, three, it replaces itself via the card draw.

I wouldn't go with Legion's Initiative as it really is a sub-optimal Spear of Heliod. Sure, it costs one less, but outside of Anax and Cymede you don't have any multicolored creatures that are going to get the full benefit - and giving your Fabled Hero +0/+1 really doesn't do much good. Additionally, Boros Charm is good, but if you're not going the burn route, I wouldn't really suggest adding any more. The biggest thing it's going to give you is the protection from sweepers, so perhaps 1-2x more in the SB, but 2x in the MB sounds about right for what you're looking at.

Silence has always struck me as an interesting card that doesn't see enough play. I certainly understand all the reasons why it doesnt, but for an aggro deck, it strikes me as a solid tempo option to help you close the door on the opponent. But, not being an aggro deck, for your purposes perhaps it goes to the SB to combat control decks that are counter-heavy.

Ratchet Bomb is also a SB card at best, and an underwhelming option given that it telegraphs your play. I played an opponent this past week who relied on it for his removal of my creatures beyond 2-3 toughness, and well, I was able to play around it just fine. Keep it in the SB for tokens, but beyond that, it really won't do much for ya.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'll also concur with El Pablo about using one of each god rather than 2x of the one you're going to benefit from most - likely Heliod. Purphoros, for all the hype he received, really works best in a deck that utilizes Young Pyromancer and other things like that.

I think if you're sticking with Heroic, Martial Glory is actually a great card. It provides a double heroic trigger for two, meaning that you can either pump your entire team twice via Phalanx Leader or give +5/+5 to your Fabled Hero - or even some combination using Anax and Cymede for trample. (Having just run an Agent of the Fates + Hidden Strings combo deck for the victory this past week, I can say that double heroic triggers can be huge).

All that being said, I think you're not too far off from a deck that will perform moderately at your FNM (perhaps yours is super competitive and you'll do worse). It's unlikely that the deck will beat the tier 1 decks with regularity, but you have a LOT better shot than you did at the start. Further, sometimes these off-the-wall builds can really take the meta by surprise as I was able to beat both a Selesnya Aggro AND mono-green devotion last week with my U/B homebrew.

Then again, if you're planning to go mono-white, then this is an entirely moot discussion and you should really be looking at the mono-white aggro and mono-white devotion builds.

ok so if I was to get rid of ethereal armor then yea the legion's initiative will not be a good addition.. with ethereal it has bonus effects but yea I understand ur reasoning for dropping it, I will try it out and see where it goes with the dragon mantles.

I dont want this to be burn, but I feel I cant really splash red without some burn. Thats why I have 2 magma jet and 2 boros charms since I look at it as 4 ways I can burn something.. But having said that I love the ability to make boros reckoner or chandra's phoenix doublestrike when they get through since alot of people dont want to block boros early so they dont take the redirect damage and the chandra's early just gets through cause of flying. The indestructible part Im yet to have a situation where I needed it, or rather when I had it available and I needed it but is a nice choice to have.. Because of this I wouldn't mind having 4 boros charms and dropping the magma jets even though scry is amazing sometimes, I feel when Im done with this deck I wont need as much scry since the plan is whatever I get should be part of my main strategy.

So here is my thoughts, If I SB the ratchet bomb, silence, then drop purphoros, god of the forge, hammer of purphoros, 2 ethereal armor, 2 messenger's speed.

Then add a second ajani, caller of the pride, a second heliod, god of the sun 2 boros charms, and either 4 legion loyalist for the 1 mana drops, or 4 wingsteed rider for the added heroic flying. and actually I could do both if I drop chandra's for the wingsteed if im dropping the purphoros anyway. although haste is always nice, this would probably make more sense for the deck. Im sure if I go this route you will say to add a second spear of heliod for sure, but thats something I would have to trade for, the others I have already.

I have definitely thought about going mono white at this point but I dont think its going to happen. its just not where my heads at right now. besides I cant think of any white instants that target 2 creatures that would be a good replacement for the martial glory.

A side thought here I just had would be to add back in gift of immortality to deal with the big bulls-eye on the fabled heros, but I would still be losing the enchantment auras I had.. prob not a good idea.

So there are three issues with what you're proposing:

1) Boros Charm provides a great option for some spot burn but in a competitive environment, the indestructible can be HUGE as you can blow someone out in combat, survive a sweeper, etc. Another fun part of the Charm is that it can be directed at PWs, making it a cheaper version of Hero's Downfall in a LOT of instances. However, what Boros Charm cannot do is target enemy creatures - sort of a big deal given that you're not going the full aggro strategy. Without Lightning Strike or Magma Jet, you are relying entirely on Chained to the Rocks for your ability to interact with the opponent's side of the board. Admittedly Martial Glory is going to be pseudo-removal in the sense that nobody will see those pumps coming in combat, but at the end of the day, against a threat like Desecration Demon (who you will be seeing a fair amount at an FNM), you have only a few options. Perhaps you could slide in Warleader's Helix somewhere in place of those other two Boros Charms?

2) Wingsteed Rider really is not ideal at the three spot. Chandra's Phoenix makes up for its weaknesses via haste and its ability to return from the yard in response to any burn damage. Wingsteed is simply a 2/2 flyer with a small heroic pump - and let's be honest, you're going to want to try to trigger heroic on Phalanx Leader and Fabled Hero far more than you would want on the rider.

3) If you're looking for one-drops, why go with Legion Loyalist when you could just as easily go with Soldier of the Pantheon? Soldier can deal with a LOT of opposing threats via the protection - think Rakdos Cackler or Burning-Tree Emissary while also offering non-inconsequential life gain in response to multicolored threats. An alternative is Favored Hoplite - but the same issue with your heroic triggers applies.

The catch, of course, is that emphasizing one-drops will focus you more in toward an aggro strategy. I can certainly see the justification for Soldier, but if you're looking for another creature, Cavalry Pegasus strikes me as a better option, given that it will give your entire team flying (and evasion wins games I hear).

lol yes evasion does do that.

I just took out cavalry pegasus, I was thinking the same thing.. most of my stuff is human so why not make them flying, it was really underwhelming for some reason and I strait removed them but I did only have 2 in so mayb 4 of would make it more effective. I totally forgot about boros charm not targeting creatures, I guess Ill have to leave magma jet in.

Here is something I thought bout doing but havent tried yet.. throwing in spark jolt to essentially target my own creature to trigger heroic and get the scry, and if for some reason the 1 damage would help kill another creature so be it.

Yea all those reasons you gave about wingsteed rider are why I havent put it in yet. I guess its really just a no go..

The reason for the legion loyalist would be cause I have access to 4 of them lol but I would love to put in 4 soldier of the pantheons that would probably be my best option.. gotta get 3 more of those.

Funny thought.. put in door of destinies and choose humans lol. mana cost is too high imo but mayb it could work

Piffguru wrote:lol yes evasion does do that.

I just took out cavalry pegasus, I was thinking the same thing.. most of my stuff is human so why not make them flying, it was really underwhelming for some reason and I strait removed them but I did only have 2 in so mayb 4 of would make it more effective. I totally forgot about boros charm not targeting creatures, I guess Ill have to leave magma jet in.

Here is something I thought bout doing but havent tried yet.. throwing in spark jolt to essentially target my own creature to trigger heroic and get the scry, and if for some reason the 1 damage would help kill another creature so be it.

Yea all those reasons you gave about wingsteed rider are why I havent put it in yet. I guess its really just a no go..

The reason for the legion loyalist would be cause I have access to 4 of them lol but I would love to put in 4 soldier of the pantheons that would probably be my best option.. gotta get 3 more of those.

Funny thought.. put in door of destinies and choose humans lol. mana cost is too high imo but mayb it could work

With regard to Spark Jolt, it's far better if your spells are actively contributing to the board state - to which one could easily say that poking your own guys is a BAD idea - especially given that an unpumped Phalanx Leader would die to said poke. Dragon Mantle, Martial Glory, and perhaps Gods Willing would be sufficient to trigger heroic for the deck.

Door of Destinies is a neat card, but unless you're ramping, odds are it'll come down far too late to really make a difference.

too my knowledge the heroic ability triggers immediately because its the act of targeting that triggers it and so the phalanx leader would buff before taking the 1 damage from the stack going down. Although you are right the gods willing would do pretty much the exact thing

Piffguru wrote:too my knowledge the heroic ability triggers immediately because its the act of targeting that triggers it and so the phalanx leader would buff before taking the 1 damage from the stack going down. Although you are right the gods willing would do pretty much the exact thing

You're right... brain fart right there. But I would still suggest Gods Willing as it'll help protect your creatures against spot removal while also providing scrying.

I think ill make some of these changes and try this deck out again at the next FNM. Ill post back my results for better or worse lol

Thx alot for letting me bounce my ideas off you. much appreciated