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Deckbox Forum » Posts by elpablo
I just turned 33 this year and I picked the game back up around the time RTR came out. i'm playing and having fun, but I'm also taking the game more seriously than I did before. I plan to enter as many local events as possible and I'm trying to be the best magic player i can be.
To me it's not weird and it's not childish, the game is complex and requires a lot of higher level thinking.
I'm planning on running 3x garruk, 3x domri, 2x xenagos just for the record. xenagos is good sometimes and other times he just feels durdly.
I think 2 nylea's is where you want to be as ty said, the legendary part is painful. I want to see one, but I don't want to see 2, the trample is key in some matchups. Which is why i think ghor clan is out, indestructible trample and pump forever? yes please?
I'll say one final thing. I'd be careful about the amount of red you splash. I'm running just a couple mountains in addition to the RG lands. And there are times when I only see one red source, that includes a sylvan caryatid. I've won games with 1 forest, 1 nykthos and mana dorks. You can keep crazier 1-2 mana hands in this deck if you know what you're facing. I say this because i tried stormbreath to start, and even thought about ember swallower, but there were times I still couldn't cast them. In addition if you split your devotion your making less mana.
just be aware that for burning tree to really get value you can't play something like kalonian tusker. YOu'd want as many 2 drops as possible to run off the burning tree mana.
also, your post here is timely. THere's a discussion on reddit about the same deck. I made similar comments over there as well.
Spotted some issues right off the bat. I'm writing the first half of the post assuming you're staying mono green.
Lands - 19 is way too few. I play a GR devotion list and play 23, that's with all the ramp etc. I highly recommend going up to 23 minimum.
Creatures - Mono green is a little less about ramp and a little more about aggro. You need exp 1, a full set of kalonian tusker, move the mistcutters to the side for any blue matchups.
The acolyte is too slow, get some elvish mystics in there. Witch stalker can be used as sideboard card for monoblack or blue, those need to be moved to the side though.
+ 1 scavenging ooze at least. Nuke the vastwood hydra from orbit. You don't need the deadbridge if you're running poluk or vice versa, they're fighting for the same spot in your deck.
Other spells - omg yes, 3-4 garruks is awesome sauce. + 1 nylea, and you can use pit fight if you need removal,but be mindful it can't target master of waves. The bow is okay too, you could +1 that as well, into the wilds is garbage. Do not run it.
Sideboard - aside from the things I mentioned. bramble crush is a great side board card, you need some number of plummet as well for desecration demon.
Now, all that being said, Green devotion is a fine deck. I believe however that the GR version is stronger in the format. This is the list I've been using. It's fun to play imo, and it runs pretty well. I would really really love another domri for it though.
http://deckbox.org/sets/529877
a turn 2 domri is crushing card advantage that control must answer. this deck is also possible to get out a turn 3 garruk.
turn 1. elvish mystic
turn 2. nykthos, burning tree, burning tree, into arbor colossus
turn 3. garruk, swing 6?
I have also been able to burn someone out with clan defiance. I beat mono blue doing that, I had polukranos on the board vs his army of elementals, etc.. I had enough devotion to wreck his board, he was holding open mana for a rapid hybridization.
It went like this. He was on the play so it was my turn 4, after his turn 4. land drops every turn.
turn 1. elvish mystic
turn 2. nykthos, burning tree, burning tree, voyaging satyr
turn 3. tap nykthos for 6, untap with satyr, floating 4, add 6 more play polukranos, arbor collosus
Turn 4. tamp mystic and another land to activate nyk, leaving up a single red, produce 11 mana from nyk, drop a 2nd nykthos, produce 11 more floating 9, total of 20, untap with satyr, floating 18, produce 11 more, tap my red, clan d for 28... (I think i did the math right there)
He was sure I was going to monstrous poluk and was waiting for the trigger. You won't always hit the double burning tree, but when you do...
There's a problem with your example in the last post.
I have a single creature, I declare an attack with it, after that, I cast Enlarge on it, while Enlarge is still on the stack, you cast Celestial Flare targeting me. Celestial Flare resolves and I'm forced to sacrifice my one attacking creature. Enlarge tries to resolve, but at this point it fizzles because all of its targets are no longer valid.
You can't cast enlarge during combat it's a sorcery and can only be cast in your pre-combat/post combat main phases.
So you would have to cast enlarge pre combat, then attack, at which point celestial flare can be declared after attackers and you lose your dude.
Combat is 5 steps. Only instants or abilities can be activated/cast during combat. in a nut shell
1. Precombat - can cast instants and use abilities
2. Declare attackers- can cast instants or use abilities _after_ attackers have been declared and tapped
3. declare blockers - can cast instants or use abilities _after_ blockers have been declared and blocking/damage assignment order has been finished
4. damage - no abilities allowed, damage is assigned, any triggered abilities will go on the stack to be resolved in the clean up step
5. clean up - chance for spells and abilities after combat
See how it runs tonight and then get back to us. My final impressions are as follows.
I don't think you should run counter magic at all then if you don't want a more comprehensive counter spell in the deck. I don't see what a 1-2 dispel is doing for you that izzet charm already isn't doing. I think the negates in the side are a far better answer than dispel. What instant are you so afraid of that you need to counter it with such a narrow answer?
You're not playing esper that's for sure, but I've seen similar lists played and I think if you're playing your spells on your turn out of anything other than necessity you might rethink that strategy. Your real wincon is the chimera so you just build up spells in the yard and tokens with pyromancer until you win right, i don't think a turn 2 pyromancer is a good idea anyway, he's a target because people know he can get out of hand in those decks?
You're at 14 1-1 answers for aggro if you don't get to trade with any tokens and if you don't count cyclonic rift. How are you against GR devotion? a turn 2/3 collosus or polukranos would be really hard for you to deal with, even if you can destroy it or bounce it they just play more the next turn, or they garruk/domri into value. I think you need a wipe like anger in the side for this matchup to destroy their dorks/oozes same goes for GW aggro. Can't eat it if it's exiled. If it's not anger, I really think you need something else on the side that can clear out a bunch of little dudes like this real quick. It's not that your 1-1 answer can't, but it's much more efficient if you can get them all with 1 spell while keeping your 1-1 answers for something else.
I've seen other versions running guttersnipe as well, I played against one with guttersnipe at an fnm a while ago and narrowly beat it. The snipe puts a lot of pressure on that's hard to deal with and he eats removal to protect, pyromancer and chimera. Just some food for thought. I think you might consider him over the hammer. you typically want more mana available in these decks and you're just going to eat all your resources by making tokens. YOu've got to be able to reliably cast turn/burn or overload a mizzium/rift.
Prognostic sphinx seems like it might be a decent alternate win con in the deck, as a 1 of or something. It fits the plan with the chimera and is hard to remove while providing extremely smooth draws. Though you would need more draw to fuel it than you currently have available.
And for Elpablo, this is a tempo deck, not a control deck. I have the hybridization in here because it only costs 1, and takes out anything that I would need to use 2 burns spells on anyway. Plus, when used on myself with a young pyromancer on board, it's a 1 mana 3/3 with no downside. Its a huge help in this build.
Tempo is a kind of control 
If you like, hybridization that's fine, but like joe said mortars is a far superior spell in the format. The only real reason I can see to include hybridization is desecration demon/or some of the gr aggro, you don't have great options for that guy, except cyclonic rift, which is good against mono-b in general, but can't hurt to hedge your bets. If you want to run some main, there's an argument, but it's not a 4 of spell maindeck. Unless you only see mono black all day every day. I still think there are better options in this deck. Main deck essence scatter for instance. You should be able to hold lots of mana up in this deck for those kinds of plays. You really shouldn't need the token
I've got dispel over syncopate because there's no option for it to not work. I don't want to be committing a turn's worth of mana to counter something that may or may not be coming (as I have no "Look at opponant's hand" spells). Dispel hits everything in the format that i'm concerned about save Anger of the gods, for just 1 mana.
A whole turns of worth of mana? How have you been casting syncopate? You never should have to sync for more than 1-2 tops to get value. Most decks are front loading their resources right now and tap out a lot. Sync is a great spell to play in this deck. Also, about half your deck is being cast at the end of your opponents turn if not needed elsewhere . Countering that tapped out revelation could be baller? That tapped out gary for 5 for 6-8 damage? Hell countering a underworld connections on turn 3 is worth it against mono black, or thassa or jace in mono blue. They always tap out for that.
I did consider Magma Jet, but all of my copies are currently in a r/w devotion build that I am loaning to someone. However, between the steam auguries and the Izzet charms, I have a good fistful of cards whenever I need it, and any more draw power would really be a waste of space.
You can take or leave jet really, it helps fix draws but really only gets real removal value against aggro or mono blue. It is a little of both and not really good at either. I know izzet and augery fit the theme of the deck pretty well, but I still feel you need some sort of raw draw power. Perhaps an opportunity or a couple divination, or the 4th augery.
And finally, Anger is the last thing that I want to be using in this deck, seeing as it kills 3 of my 3 win-conditions (Hammer, Young pyro, Spellheart).
Anger would be useful against aggro/mono blue. You could be desperate to stabilize against aggro, but once you do you have no life gain to get you out of reach and you'll need to keep the board clear to win. Anger on the side could be good. If not anger, then something like reckoner? You need a way to really take out their threats thats not 1-1, mizzium does that, but comes online too late, same for the rift.
I don't get why you'd want rapid hybridization in this deck anyway. Red has lots better removal.
Also, don't care for dispel, I think it should be syncopate at least. Maindeck anyway. Negate and essence scatter can be on the side.
I also think magma jet is good in this deck, or divination, you need something to help give you gas.
Also, in addition to the mizzium mortar suggestion, some number of anger of the gods needs to be in the 75.
Nivmagus is just bad. If you want to cast a spell that buffs your creatures just play enchants instead. I completely don't get how this is supposed to be better than other options. you've got 12 1 drops, I really think you only need 8 and get some more 2 drops in there, and cut this guy.
Spark jolt is pretty bad value for what it does. Lightning strike is much better and more relevant and if you are really worried about scrying to fix your draws then magma jet is just a better solution.
I get you probably want to keep heroic as a theme for the deck which is fine it's not a terrible mechanic, but i don't know if you can build a deck around it by itself. I think it needs to be more white than red if you really want to build around the mechanic. with the phalaxan 2 drop guy (puts +1/+1 counters on every bod) and precinct captain for some tokens and with the amount of devotion you'll have a couple heliod's isn't out of question and the spear. The problem is you really need to make the heroic triggers count because you really won't get that many. You'll run out of gas pretty fast. a set mutavaults would be great too. Turn them into creatures then trigger the phalaxan guy and put counters on them. 3/3 mutavaults seem good.
The one that has the most potential imo, for a off the wall weird deck that might work is the sphere of saftey deck. Enchatment destruction is at a premium and you can take out a lot of decks by running pacifism, arest, sphere etc... you need to run some credible threats with it though like heliod, elspeth, path of bravery strikes me as a good card in this deck.
It would play like a control deck, you might even be able to splash blue for sphinx's, now that I think about it, I think you have to splash blue, in order to have a chance in the control matchup. Otherwise you just lay down to them because they don't care about all your enchants.
Maze's end just doesn't have it against other competative decks even if they're not expecting it, there are decks that will just beat you.
Fair enough, can't let a bad night stop you though.
If you'd like to talk about your matches we can try to help you evaluate what went right/wrong, and move forward from there.
I scrubbed out of the GP this weekend. 4-3 es no bueno. Donated $40 to someone else prize pool, but it was a good time and I learned some things and I won't make the same mistakes in the future.
I think the list has potential as is, it'll probably need some fine tuning once you start playing.
Temple of Triumph is what you want. You don't need a lot of mountains to turn on chained (also be aware it needs to say mountain in the "type" field of the card to count as a mountain, thus the temple is not a mountain). You just need "enough" 4 might be too few, but you might only need 1 more... testing will tell*shrug* Like i said in the other post. I would ex-nay most of the white in that build anyway.
If you plan to go to FNMs, standard is, usually what the format is. If you wanted to play modern, vexing devil is not the route you'd want to go for an aggro deck anyway. (Hint: vexing devil wasn't very good even while it was in standard).
Standard currently is, Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze, M14, Theros. That's it.
Remember you're life total in this decks is a cushion. The only life total that matters to you is zero. Don't be afraid to take damage to get your threats accross.
For the white deck.
1/1 creatures unless they provide relevant abilities usually aren't desirable. the soul mender should probably be cut and so should the hopeful eidolon for something like boros elite or dryad militant. I like the elite better the ability to become a 3/3 on turn 3 is pretty good.
I kind of like gift of orzhov it provides much needed evasion, this is what ajani does in the white list I posted as well as additional damage. The life gain is very relevant too. Putting gift on captain on turn 3 can make sure you produce a token most of the time. If you could get them I might run some number of spear of heliod and gift of orzhov. You don't want too many creature enchants though because removal can 2 for 1 you and that's no bueno.
Indestructibility is a gimmick card, it looks neat but on turn 4 what are you making indestructible in this deck? a 2/2? maybe a 3/3?. That's not very scary. You need to be dropping threats on turn 4 to close out the game on turn 5. In most aggro decks a turn 5-6 kill is what you're shooting for. I realize you may not have access to some of the cards like heliod, reckoner, or ajani, if you could get a hold of a gideon he's okay in this deck too.
For the red deck.
I think you're on the right path here. Let me offer a little more advice. This deck is better off as a nearly mono red deck. You can splash a little white, but I feel you're a little heavy white right now.
In this deck you want to trigger heroic. You're going low and fast to make this work. In this deck madcap skills is actually very good. A turn one crusader followed by a madcap is 5 damage on turn 2. This would seem greedy in most decks, but it's actually the point of a deck like this. Also, Firedrinker satyr is a better 1 drop in this kind of deck than soldier. He can pump, he's the same body/toughness. If not fire drinker then rakdos cackler or even Foundry Street Denizen would be better.
Thinks like ash zealot and chandra's phoenix are strong here so are cheap damage cards like shock and lightning strike.
Labrything champion and Anax and Cymede are too expensive and slow. For champion You play him turn 4, he can't attack or do anything useful until the next turn and then you have to have a spell to target him, and he's only a 2/2. Fanatic of mogis is a much much better 4 drop. Lets say you've managed to deal the following damage/plays on your previous turns, assuming none of your creatures get removed.
Turn 1: Crusader
Turn 2: Madcap, 5 damage
Turn 3: Phoenix, 7 Damage
Turn 4: Mogis, 5 damage from mogis,
Turn 5: this is a total of 17 damage in 4 turns, you only need 3 more to win.
Lets say they removed crusader on turn 3 after attacks.
Turn 1: Crusader
Turn 2: Madcap, 5 damage
Turn 3: Phoenix, 3 Damage, because crusader was removed, the token is still in play
Turn 4: Mogis, 3 damage from mogis, This is a total of 11 damage
Turn 5: it's very possible, to attack with the pheonix/mogis/token at this point dealing 7 damage, you could play another mogis, or a couple burn spells to finish them, all you need is 9 points. Double boros charm does 8, charm+lightning strike does 7. There's lots of ways to win at this point.
You would not be able to make these plays with anax or champion.
Other 3 drops to consider are hammer of purphorous, that means that mogis can come down do damage and smack for 4 on turn 4. Also boros reckoner of course would help fanatic of mogis do a lot of damage.
Just a note on your mana. Transguild promenade is probably the worst mana fixing available. let me explain.
If you play basic/shock lands and make a land drop every turn for the first 5 turns you're possible mana looks like this.
Turn 1: 1 mana
Turn 2: 2 mana
Turn 3: 3 mana
Turn 4: 4 mana
Turn 5: 5 mana.
Total : 15 total mana over 5 turns.
Now if you add a gate in there on turn 1 it looks like this.
Turn 1: - mana
Turn 2: 2 mana
Turn 3: 3 mana
Turn 4: 4 mana
Turn 5: 5 mana.
Total: 14 mana over 5 turns.
You miss out on your 1 drop but you can make both red and white not terrible, but not great. Atemple of triumph would be better turn one and a shock land like Sacred Foundry would be even better, because you can pay 2 life to get your red/white mana fixing and still have a turn 1 play.
Now lets look at transguild promenade on turn 2. With basics
Turn 1: 1 mana
Turn 2: - mana
Turn 3: 3 mana
Turn 4: 4 mana
Turn 5: 5 mana.
Total: 13 mana over 5 turns.
So you cost yourself 2 mana to play transguild promenade. That's a 2 drop and 2 drops are arguably the most important drop in an agro deck.
Now lets look at it with a turn 1 gate turn 2 promenade.
Turn 1: - mana
Turn 2: - mana
Turn 3: 3 mana
Turn 4: 4 mana
Turn 5: 5 mana.
Total: 12 mana over 5 turns.
You just produced 3 less mana than you would with shocks/basics because of promenade. In an aggro deck this is unacceptable. You need to make every drop on que without exception in order to apply the pressure you need to win. Temples are more acceptable because they allow you to smooth out your next draw and make sure it's relevant to your hand. Gates are the 3rd best option, but the more basics/shocks you can play the better off you are.
Mutavault is also an acceptable land drop in an aggro deck but for different reasons.
TLDR: promenade = no good.
Hey you started it
You can create whatever you want, but when someone suggests that a new player look at the best decks out there and to test them out don't thumb your nose at it. There are better ways to add objective commentary to it than a snarky "you can be a robot if you want" type comment. Casual players like yourself and this new player need to realize that it's not wrong to try to be the best player you can be and trying to be successful at the game, at more than just the kitchen table or within your group of friends, isn't a crime.
BTW, I play minecraft too and terraria, I love sandbox games. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I don't like using other peoples wheels because I don't want to appear to be the same as everyone else on the road. I want to make my own wheels at home because I want to be original. I don't care if they fall apart on the highway and aren't safe to drive on. I'm unique.
Sorry to be crass, but that argument is old and completely invalid. We play a competitive game you can't say you don't play to win. You're playing _against_ an opponent with the sole purpose to be victorious. You can have fun at any competition. Example: to say that professional sports players don't enjoy their job wouldn't be true they're just playing at a higher level than the highschool kids who also enjoy it. There's more on the line but they love what they do.
No magic player is going to make the millions that a pro player does, but to say that we can't be competitive and have fun is a fallacy.
Personally, I don't want to play a bad deck anymore than I'd want to drive on faulty wheels. It's a matter of min/maxing your potential. I do it in every game. You have to get the right amount of stats in wow to do raids and there are optimal boss fighting strategies. anyone can copy a deck or a character build, but you have to understand how to play it in order for it to perform at the optimal level.
I'll address the weakness of blue white first. First off, no temples, so you're not able to smooth your draws and fix your mana at the same time. Gates just tempo you with no benefit. It also lacks synergy as an aggro deck. You really want removal that can double as damage dealers to help burn out your opponent. Things like Boros charm or lightning strike can help you trade better or deal enough damage to close out the game. And as far as exile removal goes chained to the rocks is leaps and bounds better for an aggro deck than detention sphere.
As far as Wr over Rw it just depends on where you're at.
The Rw version is usually more about straight aggro/burn fanatic of mogis and things like ash zealot help you come in pretty fast while reselient threats like the hammer of purphoros and chandra's phoenix can keep producing threats even when you run out of steam.
Wr is more resilient it usually works with putting some tokens in play with precinct captain and tops out around heliod or sometimes even elspeth depending on the deck. With god's willing and brave the elements help you get damage through while protecting your creatures at the same time. Red provides the same function in this deck with things like boros charm some even run an aurelia's fury.
Look at MTG analytics http://mtganalytics.net/
RW/WR are the top 3/4 decks respectively. They've been tested and tested and proved to be the best of the best aggro decks atm. You can try to reinvent the wheel so to speak, but these decks just have better reach than blue splashing can provide.
You're mana ratio is way off for the amount of blue you're running. A set of shocks and a couple gates should do it... maybe 1 island.
The thing though is this type of deck gains so much more from red that blue. Boros charm, reckoners, and red also has the temples. Heliod would work in here too and so would his spear.
At this point you're so close to a mono white deck why even keep the blue?
You should be going red white with mutavaults.
You get access to Blaze Commando, Boros Battleshaper, Boros Reckoner, orduun veteran, and mutavaults will count as minotaur and you can still do some of the red devotion stuff to deal actual damage. Although you probably want to top out at 4-5 CMC creatures and don't want to go up to anything over that.
I would still want to play a few non minotaur cards like ash zealot, legion loyalist, rakdos cackler. That way you can still curve out.
Get some Sacred foundry's and temples, boros charms.
Check out some of the sCG decklists posted here.
http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
WR decks have been doing well recently.
I think i would leave it as a record of the trade, regardless of how you decide to send the physical cards.
elpablo wrote:I don't think reckoner is a bad choice for the UWr control list. He's good against aggro and can make it so you don't "have" to have a verdict to live against aggro. he's probably better in an aggro heavy meta. I think in general you'd want to draw on turn 3, (divination, charm) or hold up for removal or counters.
Reckoner is a good investment as long as devotion is in standard. He'll go back up when born of the gods comes out. People always run a new aggro deck and reckoner is a premium card for those decks. So it's not a bad investment either.
Steam augery is okay, just remember it's a lot worse than jace. Jace does the same thing( better actually) than the augery and he gives you extra hit points. Most opponents will target jace with spells, attacks or abilities before they target you.
And Jace can do it more than once...
Oh yeah....Brown chicken Brown cow...
I think this topic has lost my attention.
I don't think reckoner is a bad choice for the UWr control list. He's good against aggro and can make it so you don't "have" to have a verdict to live against aggro. he's probably better in an aggro heavy meta. I think in general you'd want to draw on turn 3, (divination, charm) or hold up for removal or counters.
Reckoner is a good investment as long as devotion is in standard. He'll go back up when born of the gods comes out. People always run a new aggro deck and reckoner is a premium card for those decks. So it's not a bad investment either.
Steam augery is okay, just remember it's a lot worse than jace. Jace does the same thing( better actually) than the augery and he gives you extra hit points. Most opponents will target jace with spells, attacks or abilities before they target you.
Deckbox Forum » Posts by elpablo