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Deckbox Forum » Posts by TyWooOneTime
So the only two options that are coming to mind at the moment are:
1) Essence Scatter - it'll change your plan of attack some, but it offers a solid two-cost option to deal with the opponent's creatures.
2) Curse of the Swine - it's more expensive and at sorcery speed but it would still give you an option to deal with multiple opposing threats.
Neither is optimal, but they're worth a shot.
I think Nivmagus Elemental is certainly an under-appreciated card in standard, but it really belongs in a totally different deck - ideally one that would use Young Pyromancer, Spellheart Chimera, and cipher stuff to abuse those interactions. As for R/W heroic, I would suggest looking through the other threads regarding heroic decks (I think there are at least 3-5 of them in the top 20 threads in here) as we've discussed the strategy to a rather lengthy extent (I know I've gone through the pieces to one at least 3-4 times in the past week or two) AND there are already a few proposed lists out there.
I had actually been thinking of a similar list although I also am lacking many of the cards needed to pull it off.
So, how do you get started in the game? My suggestion would be to head down to your LGS (local game store)/LCS (local card shop) this friday to attend your first FNM (Friday Night Magic). You're not going to play so much as observe. Talk to folks, see what they're playing, how they're playing, etc. Just soak it all in as there is a LOT to learn about the game to be really good.
Then, proxy up the deck(s) you might want to run with extra lands and slips of paper telling what the cards really are on pieces of paper slid in front of the land in the sleeves. This will let you test the deck to see how you like it before you go dropping major cash on it. With any luck you can play some casual games with a few people and get some pointers.
We can help you some here, but you've already identified a deck that might have some promise and, from the look of your inventory, you have most of the cards already. So to that end, just be patient and work your way toward it. Play some drafts and sealed events along the way as they'll really teach you a lot toward deck building while also getting some of the cards you're looking for along the way.
Welcome to the game and with any luck you can get things rolling!
Additionally, I would suggest following the discussion on the following thread http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=16143 as it's going to be quite useful for your build.
So the "aggro/ramp" is a myth. It's either a ramp deck (being necessarily mid-range) or an aggro deck.
That being said, this looks like more of a mid-range deck based on the fact that you're trying to ramp into sizable hydras. So I would suggest trying to focus completely on that fact. So I could easily see you dropping Experiment One, Scavenging Ooze, and Boros Reckoner to focus more on this fact. Exp likely isn't going to do much and is more of an aggro card (which you're not playing). Scooge can be moved to the SB for specific matchups, but overall it doesn't fit what you're doing. Reckoner really just won't be reliable as you're going to be hard pressed to hit that third red mana source early.
To be honest, you're close enough to the R/G devotion builds that I would suggest using them as a springboard into your build... Xenagos and Garruk, Caller of Beasts are huge in terms of generating card advantage and furthering your plan. I would also suggest looking into Reverent Hunter, Clan Defiance, Rubblebelt Raiders, Arbor Colossus, and even Ruric Thar, the Unbowed as possible options. Simply put, you will be best served as a primarily green ramp deck with a splash of red to give you access to some added pieces.
I'm linking you to an R/G build I've been tinkering with for a while. It's not a perfect build by any means and, to be honest, I really haven't playtested it much, but all the fundamentals are there. Feel free to take or leave any components you like. You can see the deck here: http://deckbox.org/sets/474989.
So am I correct in assuming that this is for an FNM? Or is this for casual play?
The biggest issue I'm seeing is that your deck will have very little consistency. Typically the reason that people run higher counts of cards, 3-4x, is because those cards are central to the deck and they really want to draw them frequently.
If you're interested, here's an R/G midrange build I've been tinkering with, feel free to take or leave any of the structure behind it: http://deckbox.org/sets/474989" onclick="Tcg.mtgCard.showNewCard('http://deckbox.org/sets/474989');return false">http://deckbox.org/sets/474989
I can happily explain any of my card choices or go through the specifics of your deck more later once I know the type of competitive setting you intend to play in with this.
I have fleecemanes on the way,
looking for opinions,
Pacifism - Sideboard worthy or not at all?
The question is what exactly you would need Pacifism for. It's solid added removal, but is there a particular target you had in mind? Some creature that's causing you problems otherwise? If you're having issues where you need more removal, what types of stuff are you looking at? If it's just little aggro stuff overwhelming you, Last Breath and a variety of fight stuff is useful. If it's bigger things, Selesnya Charm and then Pacifism might be a good option.
Simply put, sideboard cards need to be cards that you can easily imagine bringing in for a specific problem card/cards. If you don't know what the card is an answer for, then you don't want/need it in the SB. If it's a card you're dying to put in the SB because it has tons of applications for your deck, you might consider putting it in the MB.
My best guess for the moment would be the Banisher Priests, two Boros Charms and Hammer of Purphoros or Spear of Heliod.
I think you're short on Heroic triggers, as I'm only counting 8 (and that's if you use Boros Charm only to provide double-strike). I would look at adding something like Coordinated Assault or Titan's Strength to provide that added trick. Keep in mind that Titan's Strength on a Phalanx Leader in combat will boost the leader to a 5/3 while also scrying one and pumping your whole team... this is the idea of the deck, as it can take an otherwise unassuming set of guys and make them REALLY threatening (especially if you've pumped a few Akroan Crusader or Precinct Captain tokens out.
As for the hammer/spear trade off neither is really necessary but either will give you a pretty solid advantage. The spear will pump everything regardless, turning that 1/1 Akroan Crusader into a meaningful threat; but, the hammer has the potential to help in longer games and will at least make something of late game land draws. I really think you should just playtest to see which works out best for you.
At this point it's really just a matter of playtesting, then tinkering, then playtesting, then tinkering. I wish I could give you a more solid set of directions from here, but, having never played the deck, I really couldn't tell ya.
Okay, so I guess I'll break this down in as organized of a fashion as possible.
First, if you're building an established deck like Maze's End, there really isn't any point in trying to make it your own beyond a few cards. I get the aversion to net-decking, but as elpablo has said, and I have as well, there really is no point in trying to "remake" something that is already made. Perhaps you can tweak it a few ways to fit your local meta more, but on average, if it's enough of a deck to be net-decked, someone has spent a LOT more time thinking about it than you - so why not use their work to your advantage?
Second, the previous point is not meant to discourage creativity or to say "just go net-deck lulz;" rather, don't be afraid to go outside of the box (milling for instance), but keep in mind that those strategies aren't very good and will likely end in a lot of defeats to the more established decks. As much of a bummer as it might be, the established builds are established because they're good. 
Now, onto the specific decks:
1) Gate Deck - As I said above, there really isn't much point in remaking Maze's End. Run with the more established build OR if you're really wanting something unorthodox, try to win via Azor's Elocutors and Sphere of Safety - think Heliod, God of the Sun (note his cleric tokens are enchantment creatures... so it becomes harder and harder for them to attack into you while your side keeps getting more and more stacked. I can see where something like that or trying to figure out a way to abuse Isperia, Supreme Judge would be more amusing - pair him with Bident of Thassa and Riot Control/Aetherize - force them to attack, draw cards, return stuff to their hand, attack, draw more cards... enjoy.
2) Boros Deck - I tinkered with the idea of a token & Purphoros build. The issue is that you need to be REALLY controlling. Sadly the combo is extra slow and even once you get it online, it takes a while to kill them (at 2, then 4, then 6, then 8 that's 4 full turns of the combo to kill them - so that's what, a turn 9 kill?). It might be worth a go, but you'll likely want to drop essentially every creature short of the Reckoners for more burn. Think Warleader's Helix, Chained to the Rocks, and LOTS of that sort of stuff. If you really want to have fun with it, why not run Young Pyromancer with the removal? In fact, here's the build I tried (and ultimately scrapped), perhaps you can have some success tinkering with it - http://deckbox.org/sets/472508
3) U/B Mill - Typically milling is just a bad idea because it makes your job three-times harder than normal from the start... BUT... if you're set on going that route, we actually have some decent stuff at our disposal these days to accommodate. Here's the list I had pondered for a while... http://deckbox.org/sets/481277. The key here is that your list, as it currently sits, has some glaring holes - namely, not enough removal. Blue/Black lack a solid sweeper we have to make do with lesser options like Cyclonic Rift. This is fine if you get to seven mana, but against a more aggressive deck, you'll never last that long. So you REALLY need to be sitting on tons of removal. Far // Away is a GREAT card here, as it can bounce, force them to sack a guy, or, better yet, do both - potentially giving you a two-for-one in a lot of scenarios. Liliana of the Dark Realms and Crypt Ghast are neat and all, but they clog the four-spot and likely won't last long enough to do the sort of ramping you think they will provide for Mind Grind. Similarly, Desecration Demon just does not fit what you're aiming to do. Additionally, what exactly was going to give you devotion for Nykthos? Drop all of that mess and slide in some card draw and added removal. Think Opportunity and Divination, think more Devour Flesh (who cares what their life total is!) and things of that nature. If you're in a pinch, 1-2x Traumatize could be REALLY big for you.
Again, these will likely lose a lot... but if you get them to go off, well, it can be worth it. I hope some of this mess helps.
So a few things.
First, if your Archangel is foil, it's going to be worth more than just $20, actually settling more into the $35-40 range (enough to likely build the deck without having to pay for anything if that's how you want to run it).
Second, you REALLY want to get down as close to 60 cards as possible. A quick glance at the deck reveals a few pieces you probably don't want/need. Specifically, Wojek Halberdiers can easily be removed and Imposing Sovereign can probably be moved to the SB in the event you need to keep a tempo advantage. Frontline Medic looks good on paper, but in reality, by the time it'd really do much, you're going to want to do other things. Further, you can get the indestructible effect from Boros Charm so there's no need for the Medic. Then I would say to move Gift of Orzhova to the SB (in the event you're having to race the opponent) as it's pretty redundant when you consider the creatures you're enchanting are likely targets for removal anyway. I'd say to move one Assemble to the SB and keep only one mainboard just to catch people off guard. Lastly, if you drop one land, taking your count down to 23, you should be fine, given that your curve really tops out at three.
Third, building a SB really depends on the local meta. The plan is to include specific cards that will augment various match-ups into your favor - so if everyone is running mono-black devotion, you put a few cards in the SB that will specifically address THAT match-up to deal with Desecration Demon, Pack Rat, and Gray Merchant. The same can be said for mono-blue, esper control, and all the others... so to that end, it'll be more of a learn and see approach on the SB.
Fourth, I know the shocks are expensive, which is why R/W is actually a good color pairing for you at the moment as you already will have access to Temple of Triumph. I would normally suggest getting a playset of Sacred Foundry, especially given that they will likely hold their value even post rotation, but if you don't want to drop almost $40 in four cards, the temples provide a decent alternative for the time being (although running playsets of both is the best choice if possible). Then, you can actually use the hand simulator/statistics feature on Deckbox to get a clearer sense of how your land spread should be, just set the target number to 23 and it will give you an idea of how many red vs white symbols you need. My assumption, based on the look of the build, is that you'll want to go with more white than red.
A few other cards to consider: Hammer of Purphoros, Heliod, God of the Sun, Celestial Flare, Brave the Elements... things of that nature.
Anywhom, like I said, it's probably best to go scout things out and see what you're up against before you go dropping cash into a deck that might not make it anywhere. Don't be afraid to proxy up the deck in the way I described and take that with you - maybe you'll be able to play some casual games and people there can give you some pointers for what is and is not a good choice given the local meta.
Good luck!
So are these for FNMs? Casual? How competitive is the environment they're looking to play in? Are you staring down tier 1 net-decks or home-brews?
Could you give us some details on each deck? What are their primary strategies? What are the win-conditions of each one? What would the ideal starting hand look like? How would they play out?
What sort of budget are you looking at for improving them?
Okay. So a few suggestions.
1) Before you go to PLAY in your local FNM, go there to scout things out. If you have more than one LGS, scout around and see where the most welcoming environment is. Some FNMs are SUPER competitive and will be populated with tons of Tier 1 decks that, well, to be honest, you need either a really polished home-brew or another tier 1 deck to even win any games. Others are filled mostly with players who are working within their budgets, home-brewing and such, and really who are just about having a good time. This is the type of environment to aim for, as a newer player you're likely going to lose quite a bit to get started but winning a few games here or there can make it worthwhile (against the super competitive folks, well, it's just not going to happen and you might get turned off from the game).
2) You're sitting on a single Archangel of Thune. This is a great card, hence why it's sitting at almost $20, but as an individual card, it really won't do much. It's powerful, but it's entirely possible that you can come up with another build and then use the Archangel as trade bait to get the majority of the other cards you need for the build. So keep that in mind rather than just limiting yourself to the cards you currently have.
3) Feel free to tinker around with builds and playtest before you buy the cards. You can do this by proxying cards. The easiest way to do this (without ruining any cards) is to use card sleeves (which you'll likely want at some point anyway). This can be achieved by simply taking scrap paper, writing down what the card is supposed to be, and slipping that paper into the card sleeve in front of just whatever card you want to put in there. So for example, let's say you want to test with Garruk, Caller of Beasts in your build but don't want to drop the $20 per to pick them up. Just build as much of the deck as you can and then put in some Swamps with the paper in front to playtest. This way you can see about building a deck that fits your strategy and that you enjoy before you drop the cash.
4) Ask people for their input and don't be afraid to net-deck to some degree. We'll give you as much guidance on here as possible, but others in your local meta will be more familiar with what you're likely going to run into. Further, don't be afraid to look at what the pros are playing. The argument here is simple, they've put in the time, money, and expertise to build these decks and see how they perform. You don't necessarily have to take their builds card-for-card, but it's really pointless to reinvent the wheel if someone else has already done the leg-work to optimize the deck for you.
5) As for the specifics of deckbuilding, you've actually managed to put more than enough land in the deck (which is a good thing, as most people will typically short the lands in the deck), but you want to build decks that emphasize consistency. You can get a deck to perform consistently by adopting a single strategy and sticking to it and then using multiples of the cards for the strategy, as opposed to having 1-off cards that you're unlikely to draw game-after-game. So, for instance, you have 1x Soldier of the Pantheon, but that means you have a relatively low chance of drawing it in each game... but if you were to have 4x of them, your odds are obviously better. Cards that are essential to your strategy should be 4x or 3x at the least, and cards that aren't necessary by any means but would certainly help, those are 1x or 2x and only if you have extra room.
So... to your specific deck...
I would imagine your best bet will be to build a Boros Heroic Deck as it will likely fit in your budget (or be pretty cheap to piece together) and it should have at least some success. To this end, you'll be building in a bunch of aggressive creatures, mostly in white, and some triggers to help you set off Heroic, pumping your guys and such.
So, the cards to focus on:
Soldier of the Pantheon - he's just good, so as many as you can get is a plus
Akroan Crusader - for heroic, he's going to make more guys... that's a plus
Precinct Captain - he's a solid 2/2 with first strike (all of which is good), but he can also make more guys for ya if he does unblocked
Phalanx Leader - this guy is easily the BEST heroic trigger in your colors - he will give you an Archangel of Thune pump effect every time you target him
Anax and Cymede - another solid heroic target for you to aim for - they'll pump your guys AND give them trample... nevermind that a 3/2 first strike is a brick wall against a LOT of opposing creatures
Spear of Heliod - this is a solid option for pumping your guys - it gives you a source of spot removal while you're at it. If you're in a pinch, you can get Path of Bravery and use it but keep in mind that some games you won't be able to have your life high enough to actually get the boost.
Chained to the Rocks - this is easily the best removal option available in the boros colors... if you can manage 4x of them that is a plus
Assemble the Legion - this will likely be a SB card for you, but you could also just as easily run 2x in the mainboard as this is among the best cards in the format in terms of creating inevitability. Simply put, without enchantment removal (which a lot of decks don't really run), it will just win games.
You're already sitting on a lot of the major stuff you're after in here, namely: Firefist Striker, Imposing Sovereign, Wojek Halberdiers, Daring Skyjek, Fabled Hero - these are all solid options to fill in the build.
As for heroic triggers, you will want to run Gods Willing, Dragon Mantle, Madcap Skills, Coordinated Assault, Titan's Strength, and things of that nature.
So anyway, I hope some of this info helps... it's a bit of a learning curve and if need be I can give you a rough build with more specific counts here in a few days. Good luck and remember that the most important part is to HAVE FUN! The rest isn't really all that important.
Welcome,
What level of competition will this deck be seeing? Specifically, do you intend to take this to your local FNM or is this meant for casual play amongst a group of friends?
The reason I'm asking is because the types of cards and combinations you can get away with in casual play is quite different than in a more competitive environment like an FNM.
Time to drop the dependency on TCGPlayer I'd say, it's holding DB down!
Considering that TCGPlayer is, by a wide margin, the largest source for MTG retail, I'm not all that sure it makes sense to make that sort of move.
At current you can get a bit creative with the filters and I might see where Sebi can add another filter or two in the next release. But if it's an alternate/altered art of a card that never had a promo, why not just mark it as a "promo" for the sake of your Deckbox collection? Or, in the event you don't have any signed cards, why not just mark your altered arts as being "signed?"
Maybe I'm being weird here, but I don't know that the site really needs 20 filters to fill out for each card. I can imagine many users probably think there are too many filters as it stands right now.
I have 2 groups of varying size, so I could be playing anywhere from 1 to 7 others.
But typically you are playing multiplayer games or one-on-one? As obviously you can imagine the curve can be a bit steeper for multiplayer while one-on-one can you can be pressured much faster...
Does your local playgroup typically play 4 person games or just one-on-one? Depending on which that is, I don't know how much emphasis you need to place on some of your lower cmc creatures.
In either event, I could see where Animar, Soul of the Elements could be a solid addition as it will make a LOT of your stuff far easier to cast.
I'll take a longer look at the build here later and will hopefully give you some more useful feedback.
Alright guys, calm down... there really isn't a debate to be had here...
Johnny vs. Spike... it's quite alright to be a little bit of both.
The simple point I like to take away is that you can look at the top builds to learn from them. You don't have to take their lists card-for-card (unless you really want to), but there's a lot to be learned from the more polished, more competitive players. To create a deck is certainly fun, it's the biggest challenge I enjoy in the game, BUT, it's also silly to "create" a sub-optimal version of the same deck if it's already out there.
So, Dorynnos, there's a LOT that's been tossed at you in a very short period of time. That being said, you really have four options for the deck:
1) Remain U/W and try some of the suggestions to see how it goes. This might not perform as well as you would like in a competitive environment, but if blue really has the feel for what you like, then run with it. Figure out what under-performs, find solutions, and figure out a new way to take the deck.
2) Go mono-white. This will open up some space for many of the cards suggested and it has the potential to be a bit more successful competitively (I'd argue its upside is a bit higher). But, you'll run the risk of getting bored with the deck quickly as it'll have pretty much the same lines of play every game. Further, you lose out on some of the most enjoyable heroic trigger spells.
3) Switch gears entirely to R/W. This probably has the highest upside of any of the heroic decks and I've actually seen some home-brews at my LGS do relatively well following this strategy. It opens you to a lot more quality removal (see Chained to the Rocks or ANY burn spell) and even some added fun with Akroan Crusader and Anax and Cymede (both of whom are big fans of Phalanx Leader). You can also slide in fun heroic triggers ranging from Titan's Strength to Coordinated Assault to Dynacharge and Weapon Surge. So there are certainly a lot of ways to run with this deck.
4) Go completely outside the box and try to put all the comments made here together into ONE deck. If you like U/W, but R has the best combo pieces for you, why not go U/W/R and try to fit everything in? In fact, here's an American Heroic deck I tossed together on paper a few weeks ago that I've yet to even sleeve up to try. http://deckbox.org/sets/523862 To be honest, the build actually looks like a fair bit of fun and could probably be built without dropping a fortune on the lands if you're just wanting to dink around.
I hope the bit of a squabble between elpablo and Xan doesn't turn you off or scare you away from asking for more advice. You have to keep in mind that there are different types of players in the game, some who are more focused on trying to be competitive and win (elpablo) who follow the "Spike" archetype, and those who are more focused on being creative in their path to victory (Xan) who follow the "Johnny" archetype. Don't stress their debate, just have some fun and, with any luck, some of the suggestions we've offered here will have given you some ideas, taught you something, or otherwise will help you have fun.
Good luck!
Someone posted a link to http://www.untap.in/ in the Decks and Deckbuilding forum... I can't say I've tinkered with it yet, but it might be worth a shot.
You'll likely want Brave the Elements in some number, but otherwise it doesn't look too bad. I would keep in mind that tinkering with your creature counts will be helpful (going to 3x rather than 4x so as to take something up or down... y'know).
It's not terrible, but I don't know that it even warrants that much of a blue splash. You can keep the guildgates and Hallowed Fountain for Detention Sphere but you could just as easily run Dryad Militant or Favored Hoplite in place of Battlewise Hoplite.
Alternately, you can add some blue to the mix. I'm thinking Hopeful Eidolon could go in favor of Aqueous Form. It'll give you scry, unblockable, and much cheaper heroic triggers. Again, the others to shoot for are Triton Tactics and/or Hidden Strings. In this case, I would likely drop the Frontline Medics, probably lower the count of Dauntless Onslaught to 3x, and perhaps lower the count of Pacifism or remove it entirely.
If it hasn't been said yet, it's normally a good idea to playtest before going out and picking up all these cards, ensuring you're not wasting money. You can do this with any spare cards and some paper that you slide into the sleeves with the cards. The paper will have what the card is supposed to be, that way, you can get some casual games in and see what performs well and where the deck comes up short - as we can sit here and debate card choices all day, but in the end, if it doesn't play smoothly, well, it hasn't been worth it.
If you're sitting there with Phalanx Leader in play and want to maximize his heroic effect, it seems like a solid no brainer to me. Much less if you're looking for a solid target for the other half of Dauntless Onslaught, Triton Tactics, or even the recipient of Anax and Cymede's heroic trigger if you were to go W/R rather than U/W... but it's up to you if you were to put it in. All I know is that it alone can warrant a Supreme Verdict, making it easier to play around sweepers.
To be entirely honest, this looks like a lesser version of Maze's End... either that or just straight up U/W control. With Supreme Verdict you're not really worried about adding counters to stuff and otherwise Elspeth and Aetherling don't really need the support... but if you're set on running it (I'm not really seeing the benefit here), I would suggest going to 3x as you REALLY want to draw one and it's not that bad to have a second one come up if the opponent realizes its role and packs some removal for it. For instance, when I ran my mono-black homebrew, I ran 3x Whip of Erebos and that ensured I almost always had one. After the opponent used a Detention Sphere on my whip, I happily just cast a new one and went on about my business. So I would suggest going up to 3x... now, what to cut for it? I would say to drop one Defend the Hearth and swap the other one over to another Druid's Deliverance (you might as well get the populate for an Elspeth token while you're at it).
So the tl;dr version:
I would suggest leaving Banisher Priest alone and adding Precinct Captain and Spear of Heliod in place of Indestructibility, Ordeal of Thassa and Ordeal of Heliod. While I can certainly see the argument being made for these enchantments as heroic triggers, the Ordeals will under-perform for you in constructed settings time and time again. Further, Indestructibility is great if you get it to stick, but odds are the opponent will see you do it once and from that point on will just wait until you tap four to try and cast it, removing the target creature in response (and you'll note none of the creatures are all that large to start off with).
While Xan offers a decent rationale for Spear, he's missing the most important part of the card, that it provides an anthem effect to pump all of your creatures. Sure, you're working off the heroic triggers, but if you can pump the whole team for three, isn't that worth it?
As for Precinct Captain its strengths here are almost too numerous to count. One, it's a 2/2 first strike for two white, putting it right on curve but giving it an ability that will allow it to win in combat against practically every one of its two-drop peers. Two, its double white casting cost will add to your devotion for the sake of getting Heliod online (into creature mode). Three, if left alone, it can actually create an army of its own, with it creating tokens each time it hits the opponent - toss Spear (or a single triggered Phalanx Leader) into the mix and you're talking about it spitting out 2/2 soldiers for free. Four, when used in multiples, they provide a SOLID defensive presence through their first strike. Five, they will often draw removal spells your opponents could otherwise hold for a target more important to your plan (see Fabled Hero). The list continues...
More generally, I know that you're going with the U/W scheme, and it's certainly feasible to go that route, but I've seen a lot more people having success with W/R given the access you get to Akroan Crusader, Anax and Cymede, and the more numerous red pump spells. Alternately, you should look for instances where you can get multiple heroic triggers - in blue the two that come to mind are Triton Tactics and Hidden Strings (which actually provides two triggers and then can be cipher cast for two more each time).
Deckbox Forum » Posts by TyWooOneTime