Hey Jettjj,
I'd suggest making a new post in the decks and deckbuilding forums to increase the visibility of the deck so that you can get more feedback. I have some thoughts, but I'll wait until you post there to sit and type them out.
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Deckbox Forum » Posts by TyWooOneTime
Hey Jettjj,
I'd suggest making a new post in the decks and deckbuilding forums to increase the visibility of the deck so that you can get more feedback. I have some thoughts, but I'll wait until you post there to sit and type them out.
So I have a friend with 3 extra Boros Reckoners and he is interested in unloading them. In particular, he's looking for any/some combination of the following:
Highest wants:
Arid Mesa
Scalding Tarn
Any of the other fetches.
Secondary wants:
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Watery Grave
4x Breeding Pool
Tertiary wants:
Gyre Sage
Deathrite Shaman
Other proposals will be considered, but those are the highest priority.
Cheers!
Are there any glaring holes anyone is seeing? Obviously this would be the ideal place for Bonfire of the Damned and/or Snapcaster Mage but I don't have either and really don't want to sink $200 into eight cards. More reasonable suggestions would be welcome.
I'm open to the Slaughter Games option and admit Snapcaster Mage would be a nice addition, but I don't have any and as I said in the first post, I'm not looking to break the bank here.
Boros Reckoner would work well with some of the board wipes out there, like Rolling Temblor and particularly with Blasphemous Act, red heavy though.
The Reckoner is a SICK card, but I don't know that it really helps me that much here. Pretty much any spot removal would kill it and given the limited number of creatures I'm running, the more likely they're sitting there just waiting for me to play something to meet their Abrupt Decay. Further, while it would work with Rolling Temblor or Magmaquake but would just be a waste to Killing Wave.
A good thought though (pricey too! Reckoners have jumped from pre-order $3-4 to more than $15 now).
That's interesting regarding the ruling for Nightveil. I can see where that'll be a headache for players and they might change it, given that it could, in theory, require you to have 2-5 different exile piles to keep track of (not including any clone abilities).
I'm thinking the Drownyard will likely go down to a 1x of, simply to offer a last-ditch backup plan. Good catch on your part.
I hear you about the added sweepers, trust me when I say I'm not comfortable with the limited ones available in R/B/U currently in Standard. The idea behind Dispel/Negate here was to deal with instant speed removal or counters on their part. It'd certainly suck to try to play Bolas only to have him countered. But I can definitely see where you're coming from there.
Thoughts on Skullcrack in the SB? I'm not entirely sure it matters that much as a well played Bolas would make their life largely irrelevant. I think these spots might give way to Mutilates. It's not ideal to clear out my creatures, but then again, I'm not so attached to them as to get killed rather than clear the board.
No need to apologize. Any/all input is welcome.
As I'm sure you noted the deck has shifted some since I posted it on here.
I thought about Dissipate, but I think Syncopate might be the better option (not sure just yet) simply because it's online a turn earlier and keeps people from tapping out to cast their stuff (definitely worthwhile when you think about the number of X cost spells that people are dying to cast these days - take that Aurelia's Fury and Sphinx's Revelation!) With any luck I'll get a chance to playtest with this thing soon and can get a sense of how frequently I want harder counters, i.e., Dissipate.
Slaughter Games is a GREAT card and one that I'm definitely a big fan of. The biggest problem being that you really have to pull out the lynch-pin of their deck (and have to get the right one), less you end up getting screwed over by casting a four drop card to mill them four. I'll likely find some room for a few of them in the SB, but it's one of those hit or miss cards that has to be used just right or it bites you in the ass.
The thought behind the keyrune is to provide a 3/1 first strike defender that can survive all the board wipes (either mine or theirs). The added mana doesn't hurt either.
Lazav MIGHT make his way in here, but I don't have any copies of him yet and am not sure how much of an impact he would make without milling them a fair bit. To that end, Evil Twin sort of fills his role by giving me a clone effect at the 4 drop, but one that can remove other instances of the same creature, and, perhaps more importantly, can be used to legend rule Geist of Saint Traft - something that Lazav can't do.
Definitely food for thought though... thanks!
A few thoughts:
1) As you already identified, this isn't really the best strategy out there in standard. It'd be great fun if you get it to work, but I don't know how likely that is.
2) I would load up on the cheaper land destroy spells rather than the high-end CMCs. Specifically, Scorch the Fields, Survey the Wreckage, Into the Maw of Hell, and Rite of Ruin could potentially be dropped. They're expensive and really don't give you the best payoff. The only real reason I didn't mention the others is because they're cheaper and, in the case of Maw of the Mire and Destroy the Evidence you get more than just land destruction out of it. Maw gives you life gain, which I think will be essential to staying alive long enough to really get anywhere. DtE actually will end up netting you two lands in their yard.
3) I'd suggest adding some mill stuff with the "Until you hit a land" effects, i.e., Consuming Aberration/Balustrade Spy/Trepanation Blade. They'll cost the opponent lands AND other stuff. The aberration also provides you another possible win-con in the process.
4) I would DEFINITELY run 4x Ghost Quarter given the prevalence of the shocklands. Several people aren't even running any basics at all these days.
5) I would try to reduce it to 2-3 colors ideally to ensure that the ironic event where you're land-screwed doesn't happen.
6) I would also suggest some more removal as you're currently only sitting at six options. I fear you will find many instances where you need to deal with some added creature(s) and just run out of firepower.
7) I'm not sure your three artifacts really benefit you much. The only one I'm seeing as that useful is the Gem of Becoming and you would be much better served by Gilded Lotus.
8) Don't forget that simply tapping their lands and keeping them tapped could serve the same purpose as destroying the lands in many instances. I'm thinking specifically about Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, but anything that lets you "tap target permanent" could do the same thing.
9) I would actually suggest going with Jund colors (RBG) to give you more ramp options with green while also adding Acidic Slime to the mix. Toss in a Conjurer's Closet and said slime will destroy at least one land per turn with no added cost.
10) Dual Casting could be of considerable use to you, pending that you find a good creature to put it on.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with it, but I fear many of your efforts will be wasted as I just don't see how it will be competitive.
So I decided to build a bit outside of my comfort zone a little bit by putting together a Grixis control build (also fun because it has the promise for Bolas-based shenanigans!).
The deck can be seen here: http://deckbox.org/sets/314077/
I'm open to suggestions regarding any of my choices, but here's a basic breakdown of how I see the various pieces working:
Creatures:
Bane Alley Broker: I'm seeing a lot of good that can come out of this one. It's sort of like Rummaging Goblin, but that I don't have to discard things permanently. I can exile stuff with it, then go get those things back. That and an 0/3 body gives me a decent blocker that won't die if I drop Rolling Temblor to clear out their side.
Nightveil Specter: a 2/3 flyer that can be cast rather easily given the hybrid costs. It offers a slight mill advantage, but the real strength is the ability to take and then subsequently play their lands/spells. Best of all, even if it dies I can still cast spells exiled by it later in the game. This can help ensure land-drops to get my bigger pieces out while also potentially taking away some of their threats. The thought of exiling and then casting the opponent's Thundermaw Hellkite sounds hilarious to me.
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: sure he's a six drop, but a 5/5 flyer lets me stop anything short of a Thundermaw. More importantly, he offers me the opportunity for some serious card draw/pinging. Anything that offers that type of advantage on the field is a plus in my books.
Instants:
Syncopate: Self-explanatory - you need some counter magic for board control and at current this is pretty much the best option available at the moment (exiling is a plus too).
Cyclonic Rift: This could easily be switched to Unsummon, but I see the potential for bouncing anything else AND the possibility of the overloaded version as justifying the added one colorless cost. Simply casting it as an overload could buy me several turns.
Searing Spear: Again, pretty self-explanatory here.
Think Twice: Really is there a better draw spell currently in Standard?
Forbidden Alchemy: When you REALLY need to dig, this works. It's seen a fairly good bit of play as of late in other decklists, so why not give it a go?
Tribute to Hunger: A bit of life-gain AND instant speed removal can go a long way, especially when hexproof is a problem.
Sorceries:
To not go card, by card, it's a suite of spot removal, board wipes, etc. Temporal Mastery is only 1x because I REALLY don't want to hard cast it, but a miracled extra turn every once and a while goes a long way. Hitting it with Think Twice, Forbidden Alchemy, or Mr. Mizzet on the opponent's turn is also pretty easy. (I would consider going up to 2x on this if I had a second one.)
Artifacts:
Gilded Lotus: This is about as much ramp as I'm going to get, given these colors. But, considering not many people are running artifact hate in their mainboards, it's worth a go.
Planeswalkers:
Jace, Architect of Thought: I can slow the game down with his +1, I can work some solid card advantage with his -2, and I could use his ultimate to drop Bolas (and their best card) for free. The only downside is that I only have one of him.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker: He's the primary win-con in addition to just being a badass. I saw a friend totally dismantle RDW midrange simply by getting one onto the field. Given the importance, 2x of him should ensure I get one, but that I'm not sitting on one in my hand most of the time.
Lands:
The only thing I really think I would want to add here are 3x Sulfur Falls. Nephalia Drownyard is a 2x to provide a backup plan in case it comes down to card counts (although I certainly hope that wouldn't be the case).
The Sideboard:
More counter magic in case it's a viable option (aka I'm not staring down Cavern of Souls or I need to protect my, admittedly limited, stuff on the board).
Skullcrack: Is for those pesky life gaining spells/creatures - although I see this as something I could move out, as, let's be honest, Bolas doesn't care about their life total.
Desecration Demon: In the event I simply cannot control the board, a 6/6 flyer that acts as repeat removal is always a good piece to have.
Evil Twin: This comes in handy against GoST or if they have more creatures that I simply cannot kill off. Its ability to kill similarly named creatures is also a big plus.
Sever the Bloodline and Illness in the Ranks: To deal with any tokens/mass of the same creatures.
Okay, so I've gone through a LOT of stuff above, but my questions are the following:
Is this enough control or should I be less worried about card drawing and more about board clears, i.e., Mutilate?
Are there any glaring holes anyone is seeing? Obviously this would be the ideal place for Bonfire of the Damned and/or Snapcaster Mage but I don't have either and really don't want to sink $200 into eight cards. More reasonable suggestions would be welcome.
Are Skullcracks good in the SB or should I swap some other pieces in their stead? Or, more generally, thoughts on the SB?
Overall, is this a decent/viable build? I'm not normally a control player, so to that end I'll admit I'm out of my element.
Thanks!
Bumpity. I know it's an odd one, but surely someone out there is after a Hydra.
I'm prepping to teach a new class on Monday, and am WAY behind thanks to all the wonderful GTC events recently.
I hear ya there. I'm trying to finish writing my dissertation for a Feb 27th defense date...
Looking to swap a Primordial Hydra for Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker any takers? (Note, the Duel Decks version would be sweet!)
On the one hand I can understand the argument about putting DC on EVERYTHING that you send out, in a lot of instances, the added shipping cost defeats the purpose of the trade and results in the trade really not worth it. If something gets lost, I'm fully ready and willing to replace anything that is lost (it's part of playing the mail trading game).
I'll openly admit, I haven't had any issues with cards I've sent to anyone (at least not yet *fingers crossed*). But I can say that I do not mark anything as sent until AFTER I've put it in a mailbox. I agree that people who mark things as sent before it's in the mail are just asking for problems as any delays, and we can all admit they come up, end up making you look like a lazy or irresponsible trader.
But, a brief aside on USPS delivery confirmation, as I have family that has been a mail courier for more than 25 years, just because the delivery confirmation says something gets there doesn't mean it's actually there. Often times the USPS will be lazy much like the traders we're railing against and will mark something as delivered when it arrives at the local post office, not when it's actually been delivered (which typically happens the next day). As such, it's possible to have DC things show they're delivered but they actually get lost. It is the best way to cover your arse, but it's certainly not insurance against something getting lost in the mail.
In either event, I think the best message here would not be that there should be changes in the site's trading policy or anything. Rather, how about we hold everyone to a higher standard with regard to communication. If something comes up, TALK to your trade partner. Oddly enough, 95/100 times you will be able to work things out without having things come down to trade disputes and whatnot.
Those just seem to be guidelines for the subject lines. Would something more detailed be appropriate?
Sure, not everyone will follow them, but if we can get some improvement...
We also could start replying to messages that don't comply by pointing them to the guidelines.
I'm game if everyone else is.
How about this? What if we put together a template with the details we'd like to see in each deckbuilding post? We could sticky it to the top of the forum and people will be able to use it when putting together their posts.
I believe there already is one, but nobody reads/follows it.
HikingStick - I agree completely that it can be intimidating, but I think ANY discussion, good or bad is useful. So to that end, I'm not expecting everyone to be contributing bullet pointed lists full of comments like I do or pro-level advice by any means. Sometimes even just a suggestion of a card that comes to mind can be just the spur of imagination/perspective to help someone along on their deck.
I'm fine with people taking things slowly when it comes to participating in the forums, but this forum has more than 1,500 posts on more than 250 separate decks - surely this means there are more than 5-6 of us to offer input on deck ideas. Further, the deck listings are easily searchable through the site. So to that end, just a few thoughts here or there or, as LootPinata and imsully2 have already stated, even a bit of direction or added commentary on your own deck so that we know HOW to help goes a long way. After all, I could sit here and tell you all day how I would build your deck, but that might not fit your play style and you might not enjoy it nearly as much as I would (I fall into the Timmy/Johnny player types).
I'll openly admit, I played back during Revised and then took 15 years away from the game. I started back around the release of AVR last year and had a LOT of catching up to do ranging from how a planeswalker even works to the more detailed stack resolution and other rules. It's a LOT to learn and I'm not expecting all the new players to know exactly what's up at all times, but every little bit helps.
I look at this forum as a more friendly version of what you can find on Tappedout - but just like on that forum, if you want feedback on a deck, you should operate with the understanding that you need to participate and offer as much info as possible both when asking for help and when helping others. I'm happy to offer as much input as I can, but a little more backup from the community would definitely be welcome (and you'll note those of us even commenting here are all at more than 100 posts so it's not like any of us are holding our opinions back).
I second everything LootPinata just said.
I know that a lot of the recent posts we've been seeing in this forum are coming from newer players, but I find it hard to believe that there are so many players out there in need of help with their decks that are also unwilling to offer advice for the other decks. I personally enjoy offering comments on decks because I think the deckbuilding puzzle is almost as entertaining as playing the game itself - that aside, the few of us offering comments cannot be expected to review every deck.
So I have a request - and this is in no way site policy or anything other than a request from one user - but please people, if you're going to post to the deckbuilding forum looking for some advice, please be willing to at least dig around and try to help someone else. Keep in mind that even the most experienced deckbuilder can benefit from some fresh perspective from time to time. This way we can build a more inclusive, more productive community in this forum.
Looking at the build as it currently stands, you're completely torn between playing an aggro build and something more in the mid-range. I would suggest picking one or the other as it really will drive what cards should and should not be included and the answers to the concerns you raised.
If you're planning on going a more aggro direction:
1) The guildgates would be horrible. You never want to hit a tapped land.
2) Drop Assemble the Legion and Foundry Champion. Swap Pillar of Flame for Searing Spear. You'll actually want MORE Lightning Maulers, Legion Loyalists, and most importantly Hellrider. (Don't forget Skullcrack). I would consider dropping Aurelia's Fury except for the idea that you could use it as if it were Temporal Mastery at the very start of your opponent's turn to limit them to creatures. You would even potentially shave a Frontline Medic and Boros Charm. To be honest, you can look on TCGPlayer.com in the articles and see the "boros aggro" version of red deck wins to see how that build works out.
3) For two drops, there are a wealth of options. I've seen Burning-Tree Emissary raise some eyebrows here, as it's essentially free and can pair with a Lightning Mauler on turn 2 to trigger the battalion on your 1-drops, and there's also the added bonus of attacking for 5-7 on turn 2.
4) Restoration Angel is a great option if you have ETB abilities. In an aggro build, to be honest, it won't make much difference. If anything, you would want the Firemane Avengers to zap blockers and the opponent.
ALTERNATE BUILD - more Mid-Range
1) The Guildgates are alright, but they're not ideal. Once you have the other duals you really wouldn't need them though.
2) I'm not so sure that Foundry Champion is ideal (especially at that cost). I'd still drop/hold Assemble the Legion to 1-2x at most. You'll want to bring in at least one more Blind Obedience. You can aim for other things in the 4-7 mana range. Perhaps Angel of Serenity or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight would be of use. I'd also consider Zealous Conscripts and Spark Trooper too.
3) In this strategy, good two drops include Fencing Ace, Elite Inquisitor, Ash Zealot, etc. Look for better value on the creatures so that you'll win most engagements - whether it be first strike or something to that end.
4) Again, it's something of a toss-up between Resto and Firemane Avenger. If you have ETB abilities like Kessig Malcontents, then Resto Angel it is. But otherwise I can see where Firemane will end up paying more dividends based on the combat bonus - lifegain AND removal is a plus. Given that you're running Cloudshifts to get more out of Aurelia, you don't need to worry about flickering things with Resto Angel.
Sorry to hear you didn't have any luck with the vampires, but it really is dependent on your local meta. Good luck on this one, just remember, you always want to have at least the mana for Boros Charm as soon as your opponent can hit four mana - it's easy to forget it, over-reach, and end up getting blasted rather than having the charm to make things indestructible.
I guess the first question is, what is the main purpose of the deck? Casual play? FNMs? Based on the format, I'm guessing casual, at which point you can actually save a fair amount as the games aren't meant to be as competitive.
Three main thoughts:
First, what is the proposed win-condition? Stated otherwise, how do you normally expect to win with this deck? I'm seeing Champion of Lambholt as an option but that's only one card (not likely to be played consistently) AND what do you do if it gets killed?
Second, any mana fixing would be ideal - you can pull this off in casual play with some Simic Guildgates - as then you won't find yourself stuck with one color and not the other.
Third, I'm seeing too many one-offs in the deck. To make a deck better, and I know card availability is key, it's best to have 3-4 of your power cards and 2-3 of utility cards, with 1 offs being cards that make life better but aren't necessary by any means for the deck to function.
Looking at your inventory, why not go with more illusions? You have a Lord of the Unreal to provide them with hexproof. Phantasmal Dragon is a pain to deal with when the Lord is in play. In theory you could pick up a couple more Lords for only a few dollars to help shore up the blue creatures. Keep in mind, though, that you cannot cast pump spells on your own illusions or you will kill them.
On the green side, you could aim for mana fixing, mana ramping, or a wealth of other options. For the Champion, why not put together some green token creation or something like that? Alternately, why not invest in a few more Protean Hydras? They'll likely be pretty small to start off but can then get pretty large if you keep putting counters on them via Bond Beetles and whatnot, especially if you toss in Prey Upon or Ulvenwald Tracker and have them fight the opponent's smaller creatures (resulting in a LOT more counters)
I'm obviously just tossing out ideas at this point, but I hope you can see what I'm hitting at in the first three thoughts. I think you could have something really fun to play with if you were to invest another $5-10. Just identify combos that you think would be fun and run with them. Remember that playtesting is the best, and only, way to find out if your deck will work or not for sure.
Good luck!
I'll cancel the other trade and will setup one with you.
Dig around and let me know. I have a trade proposed to someone at the moment, but I don't know if/when he'll respond. If you can track it down soon I'll cancel that one and you're first in line.
Any sense on the ETA?
Anyone interested in swapping a Domri Rade for Aurelia's Fury?
I know that a build I ran against recently actually had 4x Abundant Growth to help with card draw while also bumping Ethereal Armor's pumps. Perhaps a few more enchantments would be of use - any of white's "soft" removal spells, i.e., Oblivion Ring fall into this category. Similarly, I would suggest some means of adding to your creatures' toughness beyond the armor, as a well timed Rolling Temblor will essentially end the game for you.
I'm not as opposed to the Trained Caracal, but I can see where you would be better suited with some mana dorks, as per imsully2's comments, and potentially Loxodon Smiters. They might not have the hexproof, but they have a huge body that's out of Searing Spear and most burn range to begin with - and that's BEFORE you start with any auras.
Beyond that, I would suggest some sort of counter-magic in the sideboard (Negate and Dispel especially) as all non-creatures cannot be protected with Cavern of Souls and are still easy pickings - especially when you're stopping said Rolling Temblor.
Trade proposed.
Deckbox Forum » Posts by TyWooOneTime