You should definitely contact an admin while you wait. The admin will poke the trader on your behalf, and they tend to respond when someone else steps in.

2

(50 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

Unless both parties agreed to split the risk of using only delivery confirmation beforehand, the shipping decision was only made by one party. The sender took the risk, and therefore should take the fall. I believe this is a widely used explanation when it comes to trading cards online.

The first problem with delivery confirmation is that it is often not scanned (various testimonies on Google and even from our own users can confirm this). Without signature confirmation, we cannot know for sure whether or not the package was delivered or even delivered to the right place.

The second problem with delivery confirmation is that it only tracks to the final ZIP code. While unlikely, it is still very possible to commit fraud by sending your package somewhere else in the same ZIP code (not relevant to this particular case). Signature confirmation also covers this.

And of course, the final problem is that delivery confirmation doesn't protect your mail from getting lost. If your trade value is fairly high, I'd recommend spending $1.50 for every $30 that you want to insure.

All senders should acknowledge these risks before sending out their packages.

Edit: These aren't the official deckbox.org or /r/magictcg rules. There aren't actually any rules about who takes the fall for a missing package, so it's really up to the two parties to figure it out. I'm just repeating time-tested rules from other trading sites.

Let me know if there needs to be hard rules on missing packages though. The /r/magictcg threads have gone on for so long without official dispute cases, so I figured we'd just tackle these issues in private.

3

(50 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

The "official" answer would be that delivery confirmation is not enough to prove that a package has been shipped or shipped to the correct person. It would technically be the sender's fault that he did not buy tracking, insurance, and signature confirmation and he should compensate for all of the damages equal to the price of the cards at the time of agreement. This means either paying $30 or sending your cards back.

While it may sound really lame, you have to take into account that this rule applies to everybody and everybody has an equal chance of being screwed over by the USPS. Trading online is a risk to begin with, and insurance is available for you to lower the risk. However, nobody pays for insurance, so disputes like these will happen every so often and the sender that got screwed over will have to take responsibility.

Yep, some are worth a good amount of cash. Turns out adding up to the Tundra could take only two dice or so, lol. Would definitely prefer quantity over quality in that department.

scurveymobile wrote:

What do you value die at?  If I have some older, hard to find die, what are they valued at?

SCG should have prices for every single die that has been made: http://sales.starcitygames.com//category.php?cat=5205

I will value dice at those prices. However, obviously if everyone starts offering M12 dice for some low value cards, I won't be accepting all of the offers.

AgainstOne wrote:

the dice that i have available for trade are:

From the Vault: Legends
From the Vault: Realms
From the Vault: Relics
Premium Deck Series: Fire & Lightning
Lotus Bloom (blue die)
Innistrad complete set (one of each color)
Scars of Mirrodin complete set
Mirrodin Besieged complete set

I like all of those yikes Is there anything you're interested in from my inventory?

Velocizachtor wrote:

do they need to be 60 unique dice for the tundra? or just mtg spin downs?

60 uniques. Otherwise I'd just buy bulk dice from ChannelFireball tongue Shoulda clarified that.

mbknight wrote:

I have several,  which ones you looking for

Pretty much all of them. My collection so far consists of...the RTR prerelease dice.

I'd like a dice collection!

Please post here or send me a PM. Would prefer to do trades over $20, but we'll see about smaller trades. I will also buy directly at less than SCG.com prices (via Paypal).

And yes, you can have my Tundra if you send me 60 spindown dice tongue

darcet wrote:

I'm not saying to slap their name and home address down, I'm just saying sharing not to trade with "SlipperyJim" or whoever might be a good idea.

So long as names and addresses don't get involved, I see no problem with this.

As far as names go, some people have very unique names while others have very common names, so it can be too much identifying information or not useful at all. If we could keep it to usernames for now, that would be very much appreciated.

As per the wishes of the admin of deckbox.org, no personal information will be posted on the forums without permission.

Deckbox.org currently has a flagging system for bad traders. Please email support@deckbox.org with the details of your trade and the user that you are having problems with. Your trading partner will be contacted and if he or she refuses to cooperate, the account will be publicly flagged as a bad trader.

I'm sorry that you had to run into a terrible trader sad

Good to hear that the receiver is owning up to the situation.

Remember, in the future, if you'd like to post suggestions for the website, please head this board: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=3

spiritualheathen wrote:

Accidentally left trading feedback at 0 after a great trade. Why is there no way to change this?

Send Sebi, the admin, a message (check the deckbox.org boards).

**Buying**: Bulk ISD crap rares for 10 cents apiece. Crap mythics for 25 cent apiece.

No more than 250 cards per offer please.

If you can give me 25 dollars worth of rares and mythics, I'll send you a Snapcaster. (If you'd like to do a credit system, that's fine.)

Otherwise I will Paypal you.

Message me on reddit/user/btway

There will be no personal information posting here. If something comes up and you get banned, there's always room to explain yourself and provide proof if you want to join again. The community isn't quite as big yet smile

Monolith wrote:
Hellnikko wrote:

And another thought, and maybe because I'm a family man with a son and experiencing my own mortality...
Who knows, maybe the dude died. And now you just gave him a negative feedback as their going away present.
I know, it's a little funny to think about but a little sad too. I hate being old. sad

the unlikely event of that even happening, I strongly believe negative feedback over a botched card trade is the least of his worries .. being dead an all..

You have to understand that some people who enjoy MTG actually are very busy people. We're college kids who have homework every night. We're business men with families and children. I've had a few trades of my own get delayed because yes, it turned out that I didn't have time to head to the post office for a week. All you need to do is communicate with your trade partner and work things out. If they don't respond at first, but eventually explain themselves, there's no need to give negative feedback.

Another trade partner of mine didn't respond for a week and a half after I sent my cards. It turned out that he had all of his cards stolen. Dealing with property loss isn't a 1 hour thing. We talked it out on the trade page and came to an agreement. While I was a bit annoyed when there was silence on the other end, it was still worth waiting out, because you never know.

Remember that negative feedback has a HUGE effect on people. It's demoralizing and outright rude when the sender delivered the items that they promised. You don't know what's going on in other people's lives, so don't make snap judgments.

mbknight wrote:

Been looking at this thread and while i am sorry you have to deal with this it brings up a few points I am dealing with.

What exactly deserves a Negative feedback rating?  Now obviously someone who takes cards and never mails yours is a bad trader, but is that the only thing that requires a negative score? If someone proposes a trade, you both agree and then five days later you dont hear anything and they cancel the trade without any notice saying they are no longer interested. While no cards were exchanged or lost would you also consider this a bad trade as they have held up your cards that could have been traded to others?  Especially if they are the one that proposed the trade.  Currently facing this myself as someone I have never traded before made a deal offer and while it seemed a bit too good for me, they made the offer and so I agreed. Now almost a week later and they have not mailed the card or really responded. Sent an email so still waiting for a response but if it fails I feel i should be able to leave a negative score without getting one in kind.  I was suspicious of the trader (only +1 and that was a while ago) so them sending first is part of the agreement.  This may seem petty but i decided to pass on offers due to this agreement being finalized and its irritating that he screwed me on those offers.

I want to add I have had a great experience on here so far and lots of wonderful honest people so want to keep it honest and safe for all of us as long as possible.

Just posted a very basic guideline to giving feedback in the sticky post. Please let me know if you see any glaring errors or loopholes. Negative feedback should be treated very seriously. Neutral feedback already makes your account look suspicious because it will say "13 out of 15," and other people will want to know where the missing numbers went.

Tawnos wrote:
Monolith wrote:

Email, and forward this thread with a few detailed suggestions to Sebi.
that's my best advice.

That's a good point.  We don't need to spark further debate and my intention is to give it visibility.  I will take your advice, thanks!

I've emailed sebi about this issue, and while we cannot set up a bad trader subforum the way that magictraders has (with full name and address plastered on the threads), the deckbox.org admins are working on a better, clearer feedback system. We've also talked about having admins deal with bad trader reports and permanently banning (no new accounts) previously-reported addresses.

Currently, the admins are utilizing a flagging system for accounts that do not respond to investigative questions.

Please add to the discussion in this thread: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1574
This is an issue that affects all of the deckbox community.

Keep throwing ideas out there. The deckbox.org admins are extremely attentive smile

Tawnos wrote:

It's a well written set of rules.  I don't use MTG Salvation for trading but it seems to me that they have a different dilemma in that their trading is facilitated by forum posts.  If that's true then I see the need for these rules.  On Deckbox, we have the feedback system and the admins have the ability to turn off a users ability to trade.  That seems like the equivalent of a "BTR" on MTG Salvation's MarketPlace with the added benefit that nobody has to check the aforementioned thread before they are made aware of a bad trader.  What other options need be exhausted?

It's not like I am going to stand in anybody's way if they really want a bad trader forum created.  I couldn't if I wanted to.  I just want everyone to be sure there isn't already a mechanism in place to handle what they want; even if it isn't done the same way other sites are doing it.

This forum is a conglomeration of reddit trade thread posts and deckbox users. Not all trades go on around here.

Also, filing for mail fraud doesn't get you anything. If a hundred people file mail fraud for the same guy, the cops might look into it.

It seems like a bad trade thread or subforum will have to be made. I'm personally in a dead-end trade for 50 bucks where the user has been on posting on reddit recently but hasn't responded to my PMs. Will be waiting a while longer to see if he responds.

Kol wrote:
Thrun wrote:

That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.


Do we have mods who would/could mediate a trade to also protect new people (especially from bad experiences and not ever wanting to use this system again)? Usually I would just ask them to send first if they have less ref's than I do.

Since this is just a continuation of the trading thread on reddit, it's the same deal. No mods to mediate trades, so trade at your own risk. I'm sure most people understand that sending first is reasonable if they have no refs.

It's almost impossible to mediate a trade unless you use a middleman. I'd be completely willing to middlemen trades for free, but it just means that both parties will be paying double the shipping price. Not worth it for most people.

23

(46 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

RabbertKlein_ wrote:
marumari wrote:

Or just drop it in a blue box.  There's nobody to complain, then.  smile

Note that we're talking about delivery confirmation.

Drop it in the larger blue box designed for pre-paid packages. I've been doing that too. No problems thus far.

ZATZAi wrote:
marumari wrote:

I'll likely give him negative feedback, but I don't see how that would even prevent him from creating a new account to scam someone again.  sad

That is a very good point, I think they try to account for that at MTGSalvation by looking for duplicate emails/IP addresses right? That would be a hard thing to protect against without checking everyone's drivers license.

That's the way seniority works. Once the community is established, people will be less likely to trust 0 feedback accounts, and new users would have to start from "small trades for good feedback." It's one of the reasons why I find trading on magictraders frustrating, but hey, it works.

rabidmonkeys wrote:

I have a question in this vein; What is a bad trader? I had one guy string me along for 17 days, with only sparse communication like "sorry, I didn't have internet, let's do this" and tie up 2 really good/in-demand cards only to cancel it out of the blue. Does he deserve bad feedback? Neutral feedback?

Negative feedback should only be used in instances where addresses were exchanged and the cards never came in (or came in ridiculously late). If you never finalized the trades, I don't think negative feedback is necessary, but neutral feedback with an appropriate comment on the situation should work.