So I took Chris VanMeter's G/R Monsters to a PTQ and an IQ this weekend. For those unfamiliar with the list here it is: http://deckbox.org/sets/576144.

I did ... okay at the PTQ for my first time at an event like that. I placed 54 out of a 167 field.

The next day I went to a Star City Games IQ with the exact same deck.

I went 4-1-1 in 6 rounds and made top 8 in a 37 player field. Ended up being the 6th seed. Sadly lost first round of elimination to the same person and deck that I faced in round 8 of the PTQ.

Anyway, I wanted to open up the question to the deckbox folks of how to improve this deck in the metagame.

I'm open to white splash being an option or even full Naya as I have all the lands to support that.

Obviously the deck is relatively good for you to have performed so well this past weekend. But, that being said I think there are a few areas for improvement.

First off, this certainly isn't like the G/R devotion list that is in need of a crap-ton of mana to dump your entire hand every turn, so I wonder whether you need that ramp or whether perhaps you could use some of those spots for other cards. Specifically, I like the Sylvan Caryatids as they offer blockers AND ramp, but Elvish Mystic strikes me as horribly under-performing for you. That and a top decked mystic on anything other than the first 3 turns is just weak.

Personally, I like what you're doing with the Ghor-Clans and Flesh // Blood. The idea that you can swing with Polukranos, pump him, and then still zap them for 9 more for only two more mana is quite appealing (hard to believe nobody else has noticed it). So if you were to drop the mystics, I can see where adding two more Flesh // Blood and perhaps 2x more Bloodrush would be effective (I'm thinking either Rubblehulk or Zhur-taa Swine as they both lead to a substantial pump), although the trample from Ghor-Clan is really what makes it so good. To that end, perhaps 2x Nylea, God of the Hunt could prove beneficial.

The only other area I can see for improvement is the SB. The 4x Mistcutter make perfect sense and I'm good with that (although I would perhaps say to go down to 3x). I'm not so sold on where Shock is going to be sided in and will make a difference. Destructive Revelry is really misleading as I would likely run Fade into Antiquity over them - getting rid of Thassa or Nylea is a pretty big deal. I'm also not sure I see a scenario where Chandra, Pyromaster would come in... as you're already generating card advantage with Garruk, Domri, and Xenagos. So I can see a fair amount of wiggle room here to drop stuff and find pieces that will be more beneficial to your specific match-ups. If I were to run with a SB for this deck it would likely look something like this:

2x Pithing Needle - stop Elspeth, Jace, Ashiok, Pack Rat, Mutavault, etc etc

3x Mistcutter Hydra - you know the mono-blue matchup

2x Plummet - a good call, as it will take out a Desecration Demon in a pinch

2x Fade into Antiquity - exiling, scrying, and just for one more than Revelry... yeah I'd do that

2x Bramblecrush - destroys PWs, artifacts, enchants, lands, you name it... this card is sort of a skeleton key

2x Mizzium Mortars - you could talk me into these being Anger of the Gods - your aggro matchup is a bit weak from what I can tell

2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - if you ever wanted an anti-control card, this guy is it... but you'll want 2x as you'll almost never draw him with only 1x OR, might want to draw 2x in long games

Anywhom, I hope some of this helps. Props to ya for finding a different way to attack the R/G build.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... if you want something else totally off the wall, I played against someone using Savageborn Hydra the other day and it was quite the nuisance. Make even a 3/3 one and then the next turn swing, bloodrush Ghor-Clan on there, you'll hit for 14 and can cast Blood to do 21 damage in a single turn... some food for thought...

on the savageborn idea yeah i used to use those as well they were great bc even without the BR u can still pump any extra mana into them even after they are on the field :))

Thanks for the feedback TyWooOneTime. First off, I didn't build this list, Chris Van Meter with some help from Brian Braun Duin did, so the credit goes to them with regards to your overall assessment.

Elvish Mystic is definitely a card I'm looking at in this deck as being a possible cut. However it and the Temple of Abandon or in certain situations Stomping Ground represent an 8(12) card count towards a value play on my first turn. 1/5 of the deck if you count them increasing my chance of starting with at least one of those cards.

The Mystic also makes Turn 2 Domri Rade a possibility and very high value depending on the opponent and his board state and creatures. If Domri isn't there Sylvan Caryatid on Turn 2 can turn into a Turn 3 Polukranos or Stormbreath Dragon. This happened quite a lot, and put opponents on a short clock if they can't deal with the threats.

That being said, top decking a Elvish Mystic on turn 5 or 6 is usually a huge disappointment except in a few circumstances where the extra mana the next turn helps Polukranos or Stormbreath Dragon do monstrosity for good profit. I might cut him and test for a bit and see how it goes though.

Flesh // Blood is awesome. I want to run more but every non-creature limits the effectiveness of Domri and Garruk. If I were going to run two more I would probably cut a Domri and put Garruk in the SB.

Destructive Revelry is AWESOME! It's cheaper, runs at instant speed, and does 2 damage to the dome compared to Fade into Antiquity. Obviously it doesn't hit the gods, and it isn't there for them. It's mostly for Detention Sphere, Chained to the Rocks or other enchant removal, but is serviceable against all of the god's weapons. It can also hit opposing Boon Satyrs, Unflinching Courage or any other troublesome enchant or artifact and do it at instant speed. Every game I boarded the card in and drew it, it paid big dividends. U/W Control D-Sphere's Polukranos, I take it back at the end of his turn and deal two damage, now my mana is free, Polukranos can attack and with the free mana I can monstrous him or cast a Stormbreath or double bloodrush with 2 rampagers or 1 rampager and Blood and he potentially has no response after tapping 3 for D-sphere.

I've thought a lot about adding Fade into Antiquity into the sideboard. Mono-Blue is a poor match-up if they get Thassa out early. I have very limited interaction with their early flyers, main reason for Shock is downing a Cloudfin Raptor before it gets too big, or whacking Tidebinder Mage to free up one of my creatures. If I don't get rid of those early then Thassa hits the board and starts making all the ground-bound guys unblockable I'm usually in serious trouble.

Master of Waves isn't that big of a deal as Polukranos's Monstrous can hit it, though that is my only answer really. His protect from red stops Flesh // Blood and Domri's fight ability from targeting him.

I'll try to get to the rest of your comment a little later.

So I've made some edits here : http://deckbox.org/sets/580799

I added Fade into Antiquity into the SB but kept Destructive Revelry as well (it's just too good against the U/W/x Control game).

I moved all the Mizzium Mortars to the sideboard and added a Flesh // Blood to the main.

Got rid of the "extra" planeswalkers both mainboard and sideboard keeping my bread and butter Domri Rade and Xenagos, the Reveler.

I found that in most games I was siding out Garruk just to keep tempo with aggro decks in regards to mana all the time. I felt like the times I got to play him I was already winning and he often didn't do as much for me when I was losing. When I top decked him and could cast him I often didn't have a relevant creature in my hand to put on the board for free so I would +1 him get some creatures in my hand but then usually he would die (unless I was already winning). At best he was an awesome closer for games I'm already ahead in, many times just causing people to scoop if I +1 and show a couple Ghor-Clans or a Stormbreath Dragon. But even then as a one-of not that valuable.

Added 3 x Ogre Battledriver which might raise some eyebrows, so I'll try to explain:

1) More creatures! All changes combined I'm adding +2 creatures to the deck, improving my odds of getting more value out of Domri as far as card draw.

2) Synergy! While helps Domri just being in my deck, when he's on the board he helps everything but my lands... wait he helps 2 of them as well, he even helps Flesh // Blood by adding 2 power to a creature when it comes into the battlefield. A mid to late game Elvish Mystic is now a one-drop Spike Jester or at the very least can pay for himself if I have other spells to cast and boosting the Xenagos +1 essentially for free. He beefs up Xenagos tokens the turn they come in and will frequently turn any Xenagos' Ultimate into an instant win.

3) Hate Magnet! Most opponents will not be able to stand for him being on the board. He'll pull the hate that usually gets reserved for Polukranos, World Eater or Stormbreath Dragon

4)More card parity. 4 of Polukranos, World Eater often led to multiples. This was usually fine because of all of the hate in the format, but if one stays on the board for awhile that one in my hand ends up being a dead card for multiple turns just waiting to get hit by Thoughtseize or Lifebane Zombie.


So that covers the Battledriver... what else? No Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the sideboard. This is a meta-meta-game decision. This deck already steamrolls U/W/x control most of the time. Their removal just can't keep up with my creatures and planeswalkers. Especially after Destructive Revelry fouls up all the enchant removal, frequently as a surprise. Ruric Thar would for sure close out many games against them, but he isn't necessary to do so, meanwhile other match-ups need more help, like Mono-Blue.

I think my mana base is still good, Forests still take priority over Mountains even with the Battledriver because all of my little guys rely on green and can ramp me up or activate Scavenging Ooze.

Anyway, would love to read any comments on the changes or my reasoning behind them, I took a slightly less modified version, only one Battledriver to an 8 man yesterday and even though I forgot a Chandra at home and had to mainboard a Mistcutter Hydra and put a Forest in my SB to play I ended up going 3-0 and winning $20 in store credit.

I'll be taking this version to FNM tonight and will post results tomorrow.

WRT Pithing Needle I'm just not that fond of the card. When I do draw it, it seems to sit in my hand until the threat appears, then I play it. Then it gets removed or they play a worse threat it also stops and I facepalm.

The only thing I'd really need it for would be Aetherling and it's being played less now in the meta. My beastly creatures are usually able to deal with a nuisance Planeswalker. U/W/x control usually just minuses their Planeswalkers to get some value out of it before my creatures destroy it.

Which just made me think of another "advantage" of Battledriver. His 3 power let's him dodge Elspeth's second ability.

Went 3-3, Ogre Battledriver ended up being just OK. The games where he helped me win it seemed I was facing sub Tier 1 decks or even worse.

He also made lines of play decisions harder for me especially once I had 4 mana available. I'm not sure if I give up on him and put in Witchstalker or go back to the baseline...

I would think something like Gruul War Chant would be a better option given that it provides a constant plus and makes your guys a bitch to block... and it's an enchantment, so it's not just a quick zap and it's gone.

That being said, what did you lose to? Can you give us any thoughts on the games so that we might assess your match-ups a bit better?

Lost to Big Green Devotion with Nykthos, lost to a mirror match (that wasn't running Battle Drivers but had pretty much the first list I posted with a slightly different sideboard), and lost to a Jund aggro-mid-range kind of deck that was piloted very well.

Meanwhile went to my normal Saturday afternoon tournament after doing a straight swap of Ogre Battledrivers for Witchstalkers and went 3-0-1 tying to a Mono-Black Devotion that splashes Green played by one of the regular winners of that tournament. Took first out of the 16 man pod and took a $30 store credit. Witchstalker was a boss card whenever I played it. Especially boss when if I bestowed Boon Satyr on it.

Then played draft cause I'm crazy, and went 1-1 before dropping to come home drink some beer and do my homework.

Headed to fnm with gr monsters minus a donri and a stormbreath hoping to pickup stornbreath while im there the only thing i dont like is garruk... i run extra mizzium and an extra fleshblood and most the time i hit land and those spells lol i do however like chandra so was thinking of running 3domri 3 xenagos and 2 chandra main board any thoughts

Another person I've met that's playing the G/R Monsters shell plays 2 Chandra, Pyromaster mainboard. I think he has 4 Mizzium Mortars in the side. So he runs 4 Domri Rade, 3 Xenagos, the Reveler, 2 Chandra, Pyromaster, and 1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts

He leaves the creatures the same and the number of Flesh // Blood at 2.

He seems to like it, he says he mostly uses Chandra's 0 ability to get card advantage unless stopping a creature from blocking is going to be profitable for him on the attack.

I'm in the process of testing a new Jundish version of the deck: http://deckbox.org/sets/581107

I've noticed that in a lot of games with the original or some of the modified versions of G/R Monsters that because I only have limited life gain via Scavenging Ooze and limited removal to keep opponents' devotion in check I often lose because of Gray Merchant of Asphodel dinging me and gaining them life putting them out of range of my creatures and Flesh // Blood kills.

This deck is already a good powerhouse of damage, but if it gets outpaced by devotion stuff it often falls behind. Double Gary or double Fanatic of Mogis in consecutive turns often lead to disappointing defeats, where I've even had board advantage and was a turn or two away from winning.

So inject Black, and lifelink, via Whip of Erebos which gives us lots of good stuff.

Let me know what you think.

i like the jund idea but if im going jund or even jundish im going all out :p

yeha imma play test with this well something like this
http://deckbox.org/sets/567428?s=i&o=d

*edit* looking for an opinion!
ok so what do you think the weakest creature/card is in the deck?

to be honest i think its the scoozes. Why bc i draw them more often than not i bring them out and usually theres nothing to eat but spells every 2-3 games i can eat a few creatures but not to the point where im surviving solely on them. So im looking into Born of the gods i think the first and foremost change wil be xenagos, god of revels
hes just insane.(period) im thinking drop the scoozes and possibly garruk or w/ my current build the bow and toss in 4 of these my mana might warp some maybe toss in another cary to help with my ramp
so im at
-scoozes
-bow
+4 Xenagos, god
- 3 flesh blood?
+2-3 Fall of the Hammer
+1 Fated conflag
(?)+Flame Wreathed Phoenix
-IDK
SB
+Scouring Sands
- IDK
+Unravel the Æther
- Fade into ant.

Maybe (?)
+Scourge of Skola Vale
+Mortal's Resolve
+Aspect of the Hydra
+Hero of Leina Tower
+Fanatic of Xenagos

just ideas idk probably everything in maybe is more monogreen besides fanatic i think he'll make main but idk need to test :)

I'd agree that Scavenging Ooze often ends up under performing, especially if you're already winning. But it's also straight up won me games when top decked mid or late game. Particularly against control and Mono-Black Devotion matches where at least my graveyard tends to get filled up. He comes in gains me back some life and becomes a 6/6 or 7/7 that can close a game especially with Flesh // Blood.

The Xenagos god is definitely a card I'm looking forward to testing in this G/R monsters shell. I think 4 of is going to be too much though. He's probably a 2 of. He shares a mana slot near the top of the curve with Stormbreath Dragon and he's legendary so multiples of a card that is such a pain to remove seems bad.

You usually don't want him in your opening hand that much compared to Domri Rade, Xenagos, the Reveler and Polukranos, World Eater.

Drawing into him turn 3,4, or 5 would be ideal. You definitely don't want to see more than one copy in your hand before turn 5 and if you run 4 of that might happen a lot.

yeah stepping back from it 4 does seem a bit much but like u said 2of is good enough to toss out plus itd keep poluk+bow combo alive
other than the fanatic and xenagos idk how much g/r will change lol
coursermight be okay just to take out some of the land draws but also revels to ur opponent ur hand especially monoblack thoughtseize u then u play courser pretty much just o ok ill take this game lol

Mono-black is going to cast Thoughtseize nearly anytime they get it anyway unless they've recently seen your hand and don't want to pay 2 life for any of your cards, then they might feed their Thoughtseize to Pack Rat or something.

game 2 against monoblack sucks lol
hmm... o ur playing g/r ok well 2 duress, pithing needle, 2 doom blade, and o what the hell 2 pharika's cure
then just imma cast duress t1 take ur domri or xen
t2 rat
t3 underworld or rat token
t4 duress/thoughtseize o and doom blade ur stormbreath or poluk
t5 u know i dont like those mystics hanging around cure them then sac a guy please o and rat token activate mutavault and swing for 16