Topic: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

http://deckbox.org/sets/399265

Really want to get this into a few standard nights at my LGS, but since I need to shell out/trade $130 worth of cards to complete, I figured I'd ask for some constructive feedback.
The goal is to start with Vexing Devil and not care about the decision, build into Varolz, and Corpsejack Menace for some real fun.
Also running Rancors and Gruul Charms to go over/around any chump blockers.

It's definitely a deviation from the spell-heavy norm. Are there any other M14 cards that play well with this concept that I'm missing?

Shahrazad - Yo Dawg! We know how much you like playing MTG, so we put a game of MTG in your game of MTG!

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

What you have there is somewhere between Jund Midrange and Jund aggro.

Here is my current list Im playing for Jund midrange. http://deckbox.org/sets/326292

Midrange is almost a control deck with a light creature base that does stuff nearly as soon as they hit the board.  Your focus on vexing devil and varolz is an aggro plan of scavenging to make big hitters like lotleth troll. It's all over the place right now and you need to focus on one strategy or another. 

This deck has more of the aggro components than midrange components. 

Creatures. In which case you can cut Arbor elf, Legion Loyalist, rebblebelt maaka ruric, and sire. You need a couple more lotleth trolls and corpsejack doesn't need to be in, on turn 4, you need to be holding mana for burn/removal.   Sire and ruric while powerful are midrange cards. 6 is too much for an agro deck.

Spells. You can put lili on the side and cut the charm.  You should run some searing spears to help with removal.

Try the list below and see how it might work for you.  I listed possible substitutes as well.

4 Slumbering Dragon
4 Vexing Devil
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Scavenging Ooze - strangle root geist
4 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Dreg mangler
2 Thunder Maw Hellkite - Exava

3 Pillar of Flame
2 Rancor
3 Searing Spears

2 Domri Rade
1 Garruk Relentless

Land
3 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Woodland Cemetery

#60

Sideboard:
3 Volcanic Str
3 Skullcrack
3 Abrupt decay
2 Putrefy
4 xxxx

This is just my opinion but a cohesive strategy lends itself to more victories.  You're def closer to a deck like this than you are the midrange.

Last edited by elpablo (2013-07-17 12:45:13)

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

In response to Elpablo's recommendation:

currently I'm not a fan of playing 4 varolz due to him being legendary, I'd still rather have a 1 of rakdos's return mainboard as it's rather strong in the meta.

youre curve is:

1 drops: 8
2 drops: 8
3 drops: 11
4 drops
5 drops: 2

since you're not playing any haste creatures besides dreg you're not really going to be an effective aggro deck.

The Changes I'd make to Elpablo's list:

-4 Dreg Mangler
-1 Varolz
-3 Searing Spear
-1 Garruk
-4 slumbering dragons

+2 Arbor Elf
+1 Dreadbore
+2 Abrupt Decay
+3 Vampire Nighthawk
+3 Olivia Voldaren
+1 Kalonian Hydra
+1 Mizzium Mortars

1 drops: 6
2 drops: 8
3 drops: 8
4 drops: 3
5 drops: 3

Those changes tend to balance out the curve better. (You can play thragtusk over hellkite if you want)

Regardless of what you do I'd like to see you keep the hydra in as not many people know how to deal with it at the moment so it could net you some easy wins.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

If you build around varolz you want 4.  If you have more than one now with the legendary rule you you can just play it and sac whichever or discard it to lotleth and eat him... nom nom, counters.

These cards....

Arbor Elf
Dreadbore
Abrupt Decay
Vampire Nighthawk
Olivia Voldaren
Mizzium Mortars

These are all midrange cards.  He doesn't have a midrange deck.  Making some kind of funky hybrid isn't going to help him.  If you play the midrange, you need the huntmasters, the olivias, the thrags and the bonfires... the deck just doesn't work without them. 

You don't need to "balance" the curve in an aggro deck like this, It's about eating stuff with varolz. You want to be at a 2 drop/3 drop pretty quick.  I've seen them played, they do "okay" they're not great decks but it's better than a hybrid that doesn't have a focused plan. Haste does not an aggro deck make.

There's lots of good ways to deal with the hydra, Doomblade, putrefy, dreadbore, murder, detention sphere, oblivion ring, azorious charm, angel of serentiy, ... block?  Until rotation Kolonian is just another big chumpy target for removal... all the decks can deal with it.  I wouldn't try to play it if you weren't in R/G aggro/ big naya. which he's not.

Last edited by elpablo (2013-07-17 13:50:18)

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

If he's playing jund aggro he's playing cards like:

legion loyalist
Strangleroot Geist
Burning-Tree Emissary
Dreg Mangler
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Flinthoof Boar
Ghor-Clan Rampager
Spike Jester
Stromkirk Noble
expiriment one
thundermaw hellkite
hellrider

slumbering dragon is terrible
and varolz & vexing devil work as midrange playstyle cards, not aggro.

So ultimately it depends where he wants to go with it.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

The varolz build is an aggro variation, not a midrange variation. 

those cards you listed are all good choices.  Except legion loyalist. That should probably be rakdos cackler.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

The problem with varolz aggro is that the "nuts" hand is:

T1: Vexing (to the Grave)
T2: Burning Tree into Flinthoof
T3: Varolz
T4: Dreg Mangler+Vexing Scavenge

T1: 4 Damage
T2: 0 Damage
T3: 5 Damage
T4: 14 if you swing out

It's generally too slow because 1 chump blocker takes out dreg or 1 removal spell takes out varolz or dreg or any life gain stalls out this deck. Not to say it isn't good casually, but Midrange is by far a better deck.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

The variations I saw played lotleth troll.  Turn 2 lothleth + pitch vexing etc... is better than trying to depend on the initial damage. Lotleth is more resilient too. You can't burning tree into lotleth.  This deck has  little more reach than then average aggro and the ability to regenerate gives it more resiliency.

If you go straight Jund aggro then you can burning tree into the boar etc... You don't even play varolz in that case though, You'd more likely play reckoner or mangler.  Life gain does stall aggro decks. nothing you can do there.

I agree midrange is better, but the deck he has, and the deck your suggesting isn't the jund midrange you want to play.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

I'm really enjoying the midrange/aggro debate. I go back and forth on this myself.

Having read the comments, I am leaning away from midrange. To me... No huntmaster or olivia? It's not a midrange. And if it's not midrange, well it better have a plan.. And it seems to me that plan should be aggro.

Slumbering Dragon/Varloz is what sparked this idea. Of course any bounce or removal hoses it. Is there a silver lining here? A fast and awake slumbering dragon is something you have to deal with.

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

Thank you everyone for the feedback. It made me realize I wasn't catering enough to the engine.

So, I updated the deck a bit... the sideboard needs work and I need to re-balance the land, but the sample hands and card draws look promising and consistent, even with a mulligan or 2.

This deck is Jund in color only, with what I feel is a slightly faster than average mid-range tempo.
The engine is scavenge and until rotation, fling seems to feed this very well as a response/mitigation to removal.

Please let me know what you think of the changes.
If I can manage to find the cards I'm missing by next Monday, I'll try it out in my LGS standard game and report back how it does.

Shahrazad - Yo Dawg! We know how much you like playing MTG, so we put a game of MTG in your game of MTG!

Re: Standard Jund Midrange (heavy creature base) - Feedback requested

I think the changes look good.   I know it's short notice but I think the thrags/strangleroots should be Scavenging oozes.  Seems like a strong card in the deck.  I still feel corpsejack is fringe at best but who knows.  You could be stumbling onto something good.  Ghor clan is a good addition. You might still consider domri over garruk.  with the ability of your guys to regenerate Domri seems good for removal.  the possible extra creature a turn sounds good too. 

The only cards I am really concerned about is fling and sheltering word.  Fling has the potential to be big in the deck, but I feel something like searing spear would just be more consistent. Down side is if your opponent is at 3 and somehow manages to wipe your board, a spear can still get there while a fling cant.  Sheltering word.  I get the point behind it... I think if you really want an out for your creatures I'd rather see a maindeck golgari charm.  It has more uses that are relevant than this card.  Though IDK if the deck really needs either.

Just some final thoughts.  Good luck smile