[Standard] Preeminent Captain + Soldiers (Page 1 of 2)

Oh wow I didnt realize that would be the case. thats huge. thx for pointing that out. It doesnt kill the idea for me though cause originally I wasnt planning on double dropping Preeminent captain, it was just one day I was playing a casual game and had 2 in my hand and thought whats stopping me from double dropping them. ill have to revise that best opening hand then.

No problem. I figured that it wasnt your only huge play but you should still know. Honestly, I like the deck alot. I honestly think that you should drop the Red and pick up Green. I have seen it done before and it can absolutely wreck someone. He went:
T1: Forest then Elivish Mystic
T2: Plains then Captain
T3: Attack and bring out Anafensa or Brimaz. He also had mana up for Gods Willing or Valourous Stance. It me hands down. Ill edit to say more since I am at work right now

Yes, this does mean that Brimaz will no longer get you a token. Also means Ankleshanker will not give First Stike and Deathtouch. I do understand what you mean with losing removal, but there is replacements. Banishing Light is usable, as well as Suspension Field. Valorous Stance is removal and protection. Glare of Herasy as SB removal. If you want to keep red then all good. Just pointing out what I have seen work in the past.

Since I just got my 2nd launch the fleet I think that might be a better card to keep in main board instead of gods willing, gets me more creatures and triggers heroic on fabled hero. Though its still in the slot that I would use to SB when things go wrong.

Well this forum section seems pretty dead but o well ill just talk to myself. I decided that dropping red might be a better idea than I previously thought. so I updated my list to be abzan, only im not really changing my creatures much.. just dropping the zurgo helmsmasher and ankle shanker for elite scaleguard. Abzan charm is such a versatile card so its gonna be a must, as well as dromoka's command. I found that my main problem at FNM was being controlled so hopefully my updated instants list will be more effective.

oh congratulations, and dont worry, I just noticed this whole sub forum is kinda dead not just my thread lol.

and yea Im gonna get as many dromokas command as I can, and the heros downfall is only 1 cause I only have 1 lmao. I wish I had more but it hasnt happened yet. Well It hasnt been a priority up till recently to be honest. and ajani's presence is a nice card but ive also been thinking about how nature's panoply might work combined with elite scaleguard, I prefer the counters over until end of turn effects most of the time. And at that point it makes me want to try out gleam of authority, but I fear that I would have to many buff cards and not enough control/removal. But ill play test it with some friends. abzan ascendancy is another card I got 1 of right now and im trying it out but im not to sure if its a good idea, might be too expensive but replacing my cards with 1/1 flyers when they die isnt too shabby.

edit: also currently the heros downfall is in my SB and murderous cut is taking its place, I was on the fence about this card but with 4 evolving wilds and 2 fetch lands I actually end up having a decent amount of cards in the yard even without losing creatures. So the heros downfall will probably be for when I run into someone using elspeth or nissa. Also wow I just remembered bout Obelisk of Urd, too bad its not counters, so it wouldnt trigger the scaleguard. also I had tried running door of destinies in another deck back when it was legal and it just didnt work out so im a little skeptical bout this one.

Last edited by Piffguru (2015-04-06 05:10:13)

Thx for responding tywooonetime, you have helped me in the past.

The nature's panoply idea was just another way of getting counters on my creatures to make use of the elite scaleguard's secondary ability of taping enemy defenders, but yes I understand what you are saying about the indestructible, thats also why I recently put Valorous Stance in the mainboard to try it out.

Im actually loving your idea about feat of resistance since it accomplishes both the permanent counter and temp indestructible, and inspiring call is dependent on having the counters on creatures already so I think it would be a little harder for me to include that in the mainboard but I can definitely see how it can win a game in the right situation. Then again once I get the anafenza, the foremost in the deck, plus with bolster from anafenza, kin-tree spirit, elite scaleguard, and I just threw in 1 armament corps instead of a 3rd elite scaleguard(but im not completely sold on it), with these I might be able to pull off keeping inspiring call in.

Currently my life gain is from my planeswalkers, they do a pretty good job of getting me life when I need it, and still thinking a 2nd Sorin might be worth buying. But as always your insight is always helpful. thx

The awesome thing about Sorin is he still helps applying pressure in the form of getting Vampire tokens when you need them or gaining that life and pumping your creatures. He is good in this deck if you keep him as a 2-of.

I would also not really consider this as much of an aggro deck and say it is more of a tempo deck. So having efficient threat removal is a good thin if used in a strategic manner.

Last edited by valdor (2015-04-08 22:03:29)

Don't run bad fetches for "deck thinning" it's a complete waste.  The math just doesn't support it.  See link below and there are many other analysis done on the topic.  if you really need the fixing an evolving wild or two isn't the worst, but I wouldn't run 4.  You already have a bunch of tap lands and you're hurting your self by putting more lands into tap that don't provide any benefit.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- … -is-a-myth

If you are a tempo deck then, siege rhino is a huge tempo gain, it's a life swing and a brick wall and a threat all in one package.  it requires an immediate answer. If you're in the colors and not running the rhino you're playing a sub-par list.  The soldier theme only works if the best cards in your colors are soldiers, and in abzan colors they're just not.  You have several underpowered cards in the deck just for the sake of forcing the soldier synergy.

I'm not saying you can't make a working soldier deck in standard, but there are better colors to do it in.

People disagreed because it challenges their assumptions...

yes it does marginally "thin" your deck, but your talking about fractions of percentage points over many turns. Risk vs reward isn't worth it, unless you need fixing.  There's more than one article on the topic. Over many turns it helps, and if you add things like courser and scrylands to fetching then deck thinning draw/smoothing becomes substantial.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096

However, the tempo loss you lose for using evolving wilds is worse than the point of life from real fetches and you don't gain any draw smoothing as from the scry lands. And you're not using your graveyard to delve for anything. 

Lands aside for the moment, The main thing I was trying to point out that there are stronger synergies with soldiers in other colors, If you put preeminent captain in the heroic shell and he gets to attack all of a sudden the deck can go wide as well as build up big fatties with heroic pumps.  The soldier synergy is built in and it helps cover one of the decks weaknesses.  He's probably not a 4 of, though... 2 spots feels about right.

About Anafenza She's good, but only in a shell where she's part of a value oriented aggro package. Heir of the wilds into Anafenza into rhino is a strong play.  It works out to be a lot of damage in one turn that can be back breaking.  You're missing on that type of play.  Following anafenza with citadel siege or high sentinels isn't he same swing you're getting from rhino.

Elite skygaurds is just bad... It could be taken out for almost anything, at 5 mana your spells need to be closing the game, providing card advantage, or changing the board state.  This card does none of these.  The synergy with the captain is cute, but you have to consider the merits of the card on it's own.  If you draw that on turn 12 against UB control does it help you win the game?   Abzan typically tops out at 5 with ajani/wingmate rock as deep value plays.  One of the new dragons might be a good place to end a curve in this deck.

The last comment I'll make, You're playing hodge podge right now.  It's not a midrange deck, it's not an aggro deck and it has a mediocre tribal synergy with the soldiers.  you'd serve yourself better if you just chose one path and committed to it.

You're fine, i get where you're coming from you want your theme to work and be cohesive, and I'm suggesting things out side of that theme.  Sometimes the best cards and decks in magic don't follow a theme and i tend to recommend the best options available even if they're outside of someones theme. 

My reasons for being adamant though are not because I think you're theme is flawed, but the underlying strategy behind it.

I'll respond a little more to make my case.

Outside of standard this is possible, but you _cannot_ plan on always cheating a creature into play in this format. People will interrupt your plan and make life difficult for you.  If you have a 5/6/7 mana card in your deck you better be able to cast it at a late point in the game and it better make impact.  At some point you will spend 5 mana to cast a 5 mana spell, or you will hold it in your hand way past the point of it having a meaningful impact on the game.  I don't know any MTG player worth their salt that would disagree with my statement here.   

Another reason why this particular card is out of place in this deck.  At 5 mana you're paying for a 2/3 body, yes it has a bolster effect, but that's irrelevant at the moment.  Your 5 mana gets beat by 2 mana (lightning strike), 3 mana (savage knuckle blade) and 4 mana (polukranos) and many many more spells.  if the scalegaurd is targeting itself then you could lose the creature and the effect. Bolster as a mechanic is bad... for a number of reasons, but mainly because the board state dictates the target of the ability and your opponent can manipulate that board state to their favor.

The strategy for a mid-range deck that plays removal is to play large impactful value oriented creatures, because your deck slots can only hold so many threats and you plan to manage the board in your favor.  As long as your dude beats their dude you can hold removal for larger threats.  It's a very simple strategy but very effective, but in order to work you _have_ to play the best cards available to you.

Incremental card advantage plays a huge part.  Which is why lots of abzan decks also play mana ramp, and plenty of scry effects.  Ramping into a turn 3 seige rhino is a big play.  Caryatids also gum up the board against small dorks and tokens letting you save your removal for bigger fish or more value in the case of bile blight. 

By comparison, your deck is on the removal plan and powerful midrange drops, anafenza, sorin... but the soldier plan is really not jiving with that strategy.  3 mana for 2/2 first strike barely pays for itself. Unlike rabblemaster that immediately puts dudes on the board, you have to attack with yours to get additional value.

edit:

Also, 5/8 of your creatures just immediately die to drown in sorrow/anger of the gods, which is part of the meta in a big way right now.  If that's all you drew that game then it's a board wipe against you.

to add the benefit of blue with soldiers is battlewise hoplite which is good, but also ordeal of thassa and aqueous form.  Those two cards alone push card advantage and evasiveness the deck needs.  The synergy literally pays for it self.  Putting in preeminent captain into this deck means it can go wide like the RW launch the fleet deck from the PT a while back. The strength of that deck was going so wide the opponent couldn't stop all the damage and being fast. 

Small creatures have to be fast because you cannot compete with the big drops that the GR decks are putting down right now.  They're running more creatures than you have removal and they will trade more efficiently.  Which again, is why midrange removal decks like the one you're currently build, also, play value oriented creatures with healthy sized butts.  They can trade up in value with some/most of the big GR creatures and save removal for the things they can't handle with their own dudes.

on the other side, you're not coming out of the gate fast enough against control.  They will be able to 1-1 you or better in the early game, and in the mid-late game you will not be able to get your midrange plan past counter magic and the large win conditions they play.

Last edited by elpablo (2015-04-15 12:57:37)