Topic: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

So I decided to build a bit outside of my comfort zone a little bit by putting together a Grixis control build (also fun because it has the promise for Bolas-based shenanigans!).

The deck can be seen here:  http://deckbox.org/sets/314077/

I'm open to suggestions regarding any of my choices, but here's a basic breakdown of how I see the various pieces working:

Creatures:

Bane Alley Broker:  I'm seeing a lot of good that can come out of this one.  It's sort of like Rummaging Goblin, but that I don't have to discard things permanently.  I can exile stuff with it, then go get those things back.  That and an 0/3 body gives me a decent blocker that won't die if I drop Rolling Temblor to clear out their side.

Nightveil Specter: a 2/3 flyer that can be cast rather easily given the hybrid costs.  It offers a slight mill advantage, but the real strength is the ability to take and then subsequently play their lands/spells.  Best of all, even if it dies I can still cast spells exiled by it later in the game.  This can help ensure land-drops to get my bigger pieces out while also potentially taking away some of their threats.  The thought of exiling and then casting the opponent's Thundermaw Hellkite sounds hilarious to me.

Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius: sure he's a six drop, but a 5/5 flyer lets me stop anything short of a Thundermaw.  More importantly, he offers me the opportunity for some serious card draw/pinging.  Anything that offers that type of advantage on the field is a plus in my books.

Instants:

Syncopate: Self-explanatory - you need some counter magic for board control and at current this is pretty much the best option available at the moment (exiling is a plus too).

Cyclonic Rift:  This could easily be switched to Unsummon, but I see the potential for bouncing anything else AND the possibility of the overloaded version as justifying the added one colorless cost.  Simply casting it as an overload could buy me several turns.

Searing Spear: Again, pretty self-explanatory here.

Think Twice: Really is there a better draw spell currently in Standard?

Forbidden Alchemy: When you REALLY need to dig, this works.  It's seen a fairly good bit of play as of late in other decklists, so why not give it a go?

Tribute to Hunger: A bit of life-gain AND instant speed removal can go a long way, especially when hexproof is a problem.

Sorceries:

To not go card, by card, it's a suite of spot removal, board wipes, etc.  Temporal Mastery is only 1x because I REALLY don't want to hard cast it, but a miracled extra turn every once and a while goes a long way.  Hitting it with Think Twice,  Forbidden Alchemy, or Mr. Mizzet on the opponent's turn is also pretty easy.  (I would consider going up to 2x on this if I had a second one.)

Artifacts:

Gilded Lotus:  This is about as much ramp as I'm going to get, given these colors.  But, considering not many people are running artifact hate in their mainboards, it's worth a go.

Planeswalkers:

Jace, Architect of Thought: I can slow the game down with his +1, I can work some solid card advantage with his -2, and I could use his ultimate to drop Bolas (and their best card) for free.  The only downside is that I only have one of him.

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker: He's the primary win-con in addition to just being a badass.  I saw a friend totally dismantle RDW midrange simply by getting one onto the field.  Given the importance, 2x of him should ensure I get one, but that I'm not sitting on one in my hand most of the time.

Lands:

The only thing I really think I would want to add here are 3x Sulfur Falls.  Nephalia Drownyard is a 2x to provide a backup plan in case it comes down to card counts (although I certainly hope that wouldn't be the case).

The Sideboard:

More counter magic in case it's a viable option (aka I'm not staring down Cavern of Souls or I need to protect my, admittedly limited, stuff on the board).

Skullcrack: Is for those pesky life gaining spells/creatures - although I see this as something I could move out, as, let's be honest, Bolas doesn't care about their life total.

Desecration Demon: In the event I simply cannot control the board, a 6/6 flyer that acts as repeat removal is always a good piece to have.

Evil Twin: This comes in handy against GoST or if they have more creatures that I simply cannot kill off.  Its ability to kill similarly named creatures is also a big plus.

Sever the Bloodline and Illness in the Ranks: To deal with any tokens/mass of the same creatures.


Okay, so I've gone through a LOT of stuff above, but my questions are the following:

Is this enough control or should I be less worried about card drawing and more about board clears, i.e., Mutilate?

Are there any glaring holes anyone is seeing?  Obviously this would be the ideal place for Bonfire of the Damned and/or Snapcaster Mage but I don't have either and really don't want to sink $200 into eight cards.  More reasonable suggestions would be welcome.

Are Skullcracks good in the SB or should I swap some other pieces in their stead?  Or, more generally, thoughts on the SB?

Overall, is this a decent/viable build?  I'm not normally a control player, so to that end I'll admit I'm out of my element.

Thanks!

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

I think the hardest part about playing Bolas is surviving long enough to cast him.  Counter magic and board wipe would most likely be the best bet when running blue/red/black.

Did you consider Dissipate instead of Syncopate?

How about running some Slaughter Games?

I like Killing Wave, Dreadbore, and Mizzium Mortars the most out of your removal spells.

The bane alley broker could keep that bolas safe from discard while you build up for casting it.

Holy flying specter batman! I did not realize you could play the lands they exiled with that specter!! Really amazing option in this deck that desires land like a fat kind desires cake.

Why not drop the keyrune and run 4 gilded lotus?  Ha! Sorry about this question, kind of able to answer it myself.  The keyrune is pretty awesome.

Lazav, Dimir Mastermind?  He goes well with the Dimir Charm and the Drownyard.


Yeah a jumbled mess of a response, I am in a hurry right now but just wanted to get a couple opinions out there for ya!  I can edit it later.

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

No need to apologize.  Any/all input is welcome.

As I'm sure you noted the deck has shifted some since I posted it on here.

I thought about Dissipate, but I think Syncopate might be the better option (not sure just yet) simply because it's online a turn earlier and keeps people from tapping out to cast their stuff (definitely worthwhile when you think about the number of X cost spells that people are dying to cast these days - take that Aurelia's Fury and Sphinx's Revelation!)  With any luck I'll get a chance to playtest with this thing soon and can get a sense of how frequently I want harder counters, i.e., Dissipate.

Slaughter Games is a GREAT card and one that I'm definitely a big fan of.  The biggest problem being that you really have to pull out the lynch-pin of their deck (and have to get the right one), less you end up getting screwed over by casting a four drop card to mill them four.  I'll likely find some room for a few of them in the SB, but it's one of those hit or miss cards that has to be used just right or it bites you in the ass.

The thought behind the keyrune is to provide a 3/1 first strike defender that can survive all the board wipes (either mine or theirs).  The added mana doesn't hurt either.

Lazav MIGHT make his way in here, but I don't have any copies of him yet and am not sure how much of an impact he would make without milling them a fair bit.  To that end, Evil Twin sort of fills his role by giving me a clone effect at the 4 drop, but one that can remove other instances of the same creature, and, perhaps more importantly, can be used to legend rule Geist of Saint Traft - something that Lazav can't do.

Definitely food for thought though... thanks!

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

Looking at the rulings for Nightveil Specter, I don't think that the card completely works as you would like.  The ability to play the exiled cards is granted by the Nightveil Specter, and it will only apply while it is a still a creature in play.  Additionally, from the ruling on the Gatherer page:

Nightveil Specter’s last ability applies to cards exiled with that specific Nightveil Specter, not any other creature named Nightveil Specter. You should keep cards exiled by different Nightveil Specters separate.

I don't play Standard so I can't comment a lot, but looking at your mana I would definitely replace the Nephalia Drownyards.  Colorless lands in a three-color deck are a big risk unless they are integral to your plan.  Given that these are a backup plan, I would focus on a couple cards in your sideboard for the situations where you would think about using the Nephalia Drownyards.

Regarding the sideboard in general, you should be looking at cards that are great at shoring up your weak matchups.  This generally isn't going to be one-for-one cards like Dispel (unless you're worried about combo) or Essence Scatter.  Focus more on sweepers, such as a couple more Rolling Tremblors or maybe Mutilate.  When building your sideboard, remember that you have to think not only what you want to side in for a particular matchup, but what you are going to remove.  Don't have extra cards in your sideboard for a matchup where you don't have enough cards to side out.  Every sideboard slot is precious.

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

That's interesting regarding the ruling for Nightveil.  I can see where that'll be a headache for players and they might change it, given that it could, in theory, require you to have 2-5 different exile piles to keep track of (not including any clone abilities).

I'm thinking the Drownyard will likely go down to a 1x of, simply to offer a last-ditch backup plan.  Good catch on your part.

I hear you about the added sweepers, trust me when I say I'm not comfortable with the limited ones available in R/B/U currently in Standard.  The idea behind Dispel/Negate here was to deal with instant speed removal or counters on their part.  It'd certainly suck to try to play Bolas only to have him countered.  But I can definitely see where you're coming from there.

Thoughts on Skullcrack in the SB?  I'm not entirely sure it matters that much as a well played Bolas would make their life largely  irrelevant.  I think these spots might give way to Mutilates.  It's not ideal to clear out my creatures, but then again, I'm not so attached to them as to get killed rather than clear the board.

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

Boros Reckoner would work well with some of the board wipes out there, like Rolling Temblor and particularly with Blasphemous Act, red heavy though.

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

albonation wrote:

Boros Reckoner would work well with some of the board wipes out there, like Rolling Temblor and particularly with Blasphemous Act, red heavy though.

The Reckoner is a SICK card, but I don't know that it really helps me that much here.  Pretty much any spot removal would kill it and given the limited number of creatures I'm running, the more likely they're sitting there just waiting for me to play something to meet their Abrupt Decay.  Further, while it would work with Rolling Temblor or Magmaquake but would just be a waste to Killing Wave.

A good thought though (pricey too!  Reckoners have jumped from pre-order $3-4 to more than $15 now).

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

Yeah they jumped faster than I would have thought.  I was lucky enough to pull three from fat packs and boosters!

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

If you are going to run forbidden alchemy, then you must run snapcaster to target those things you put into the yard. At least if they are holding a ton of removal, then he is all they get, and he gives you a card anyway....... a mixture of syncopates backed up by dissipates is pretty nice. Also I would only run niv and snaps for creatures, both have the ability to get you  card even if they get removal'd, and also even if you just mill them for 4 with slaughter games, it's still a lack of those cards that can hurt them bad.... green? thragtusk, red? thundermaw, blue? snapcaster, white? Resto angel, black? liliana of the veil. every color has some high priority targets for the games..... Hell at the SCG event in st.louis when rtr was legal I ran 4 slaughter games main it was brutal.

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Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Are there any glaring holes anyone is seeing?  Obviously this would be the ideal place for Bonfire of the Damned and/or Snapcaster Mage but I don't have either and really don't want to sink $200 into eight cards.  More reasonable suggestions would be welcome.

I'm open to the Slaughter Games option and admit Snapcaster Mage would be a nice addition, but I don't have any and as I said in the first post, I'm not looking to break the bank here.

Re: [Standard][Opinions] Can Bolas Come Out to Play?

Prior to Gatecrash I tried out a Grixis Control deck. Let me just say it floundered horribly. I was amazed how much my Scars-Inn UB Control deck relied upon Black Sun's Zenith. Creature decks are running amok and Mortars + Temblor just didn't cut it for me. I was hoping that GTC would add some good mono-black or dimir sweepers, but alas they must yet again foul my dark existence with White mana. Tapping Plains really does make me feel all warm and fuzzy, and that's just gross.

I think you will need some Mutilates, but in order to make that worth it you will also need more Swamps. More swamps means either a full playset of the black shocklands or hitting the RRR of an overloaded mortars gets impractical. Also Killing Wave sucks in a deck like this. As a control deck, their life total never really matters until you have won the game. So the decision will never be tough for them. I would recommend dropping both the Mortars and the Wave and getting a 3-of both Temblor and Mutilate. You will want to shift the focus more toward Swamps more, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

More Swamps so adds a few additional win conditions. Army of the Damned is my favorite black-based control win condition. You play it, untap, kill and blockers and attack for the win. If they have a way around it, flash it back and repeat. Another potent option is Griselbrand. Just make sure you have more than 7 life when you play him, as getting the big demon into play and not being able to draw any cards is very depressing.

Beyond that, I like hard counters more than Syncopate. Essence Scatter, Negate and Dissipate would be my preferences. If there is parity or they are a ramp deck up on mana, Syncopate will just be useless. Also late game it is an aweful top deck, and being a slow control deck you will want the game to always go late. Hard counters are your friend. Izzet Charm is the only soft-counter you should need.

Lastly, Augur of Bolas is a find replacement for the Broker. I don't mind a looter when running flashback spells, but without the option to flash them back I would rather have card selection than blind card draw.

But that's just me. Playtest it and let us know how it goes.