Topic: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

In case you missed it, M14 will institute new changes: http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Artic … ature/248e

Here's an explanation: the legend rule applies to each player - so you can't have two Geist of Saint Traft on the board - but the legend rule won't apply across players - so you and I can both have a Thrun, the Last Troll.  Same with planeswalkers, we can both have Jace, but neither of us can have two. 

If at any time you do end up with two of the same legend, or two Jaces, you choose *one* of the legends or planeswalkers to send to the graveyard as a state based action (e.g. doesn't use the stack, it just happens).  Previously both would die.  This means you can't kill legendary creatures with a clone, phantasmal image, phyrexian metamorph, or other clone effect.  It also means you can't kill JtMS with baby Jace, which used to be a thing. 

All of which makes Sigarda, Host of Herons and some of the other legends I mentioned a lot harder to deal with apart from Merciless Eviction or All is Dust (which still doesn't hit Sigarda) or something of the like.

Personally, I don't like the change.  While it may be counter-intuitive that a clone could kill your opponent's legend, there not much else you can do to stop Geist smashing for at least 4 on T3 or T4.  I also think this screws up EDH, and makes voltron generals - like Uril or Sigarda or - way too strong.  Just IMO. 

EDIT: Sideboarding changes.  Currently you have to pick 0 or 15 cards for your sideboard, as of M14 you can pick up to 15.  Now you have to stay exactly at 60 cards after sideboarding, as of M14 you can be anywhere from 60 to 75.  Seem like straightforward improvements to me.

EDIT2: Land drop changes.  You would no longer have to specify which rule/effect lets you drop your land (e.g. this is my one-turn land drop, this is a second land drop thanks to my Oracle of Dul Maya).  Now you'll count permissible land drops over a turn. 

Keyword changes.  Indestructible is a keyword, unblockable is not. 

Thoughts?

Last edited by jambarama (2013-05-23 17:00:48)

Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

As a side note, this is pretty good confirmation that Theros, the next block which is going to be Greek-themed, will have a legendary subtheme.  Like Kamigawa, if you remember that block, which incidentally is the last time they changed the legend rule (before Kamigawa, the first legend of a particular name stayed and a later ones died when they hit the board). 

I also think some of the spoiled enchantments are pretty good evidence Theros will be heavy on enchantments too.

Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

Does that mean I can play a planeswalker's ability twice in a turn? For example, I have Garruk, Primal Hunter at loyalty 4 and I draw off the -3 thing. Then, I decide he's too weak so I cast another Garruk, Primal Hunter. Can my new one get a 3/3 Beast and become loyalty 4?

Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

Avon wrote:

Does that mean I can play a planeswalker's ability twice in a turn? For example, I have Garruk, Primal Hunter at loyalty 4 and I draw off the -3 thing. Then, I decide he's too weak so I cast another Garruk, Primal Hunter. Can my new one get a 3/3 Beast and become loyalty 4?

Yes. Its the same thing as if you decide to kill a planeswalker by using the last of his counters for an ability and then play another.

Last edited by Helios52 (2013-05-23 13:18:37)

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Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

Helios52 wrote:
Avon wrote:

Does that mean I can play a planeswalker's ability twice in a turn? For example, I have Garruk, Primal Hunter at loyalty 4 and I draw off the -3 thing. Then, I decide he's too weak so I cast another Garruk, Primal Hunter. Can my new one get a 3/3 Beast and become loyalty 4?

Yes. Its the same thing as if you decide to kill a planeswalker by using the last of his counters for an ability and then play another.

Yes, except you don't need to use all the loyalty counters, you can just kill them off at any point you've got a duplicate.  I think this is especially relevant for planeswalkers with high starting loyalty - like Karn Liberated in modern tron decks.

Should note that none of this goes into effect until M14 is released in mid/late July.  Between now and then, we've got modern masters.

May also be worth picking up some of the better legendary creatures, as Sigarda/Thrun may see even more eternal or EDH play, though goodness knows Geist is already everywhere.

Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

jambarama wrote:
Helios52 wrote:
Avon wrote:

Does that mean I can play a planeswalker's ability twice in a turn? For example, I have Garruk, Primal Hunter at loyalty 4 and I draw off the -3 thing. Then, I decide he's too weak so I cast another Garruk, Primal Hunter. Can my new one get a 3/3 Beast and become loyalty 4?

Yes. Its the same thing as if you decide to kill a planeswalker by using the last of his counters for an ability and then play another.

Yes, except you don't need to use all the loyalty counters, you can just kill them off at any point you've got a duplicate.  I think this is especially relevant for planeswalkers with high starting loyalty - like Karn Liberated in modern tron decks.

Should note that none of this goes into effect until M14 is released in mid/late July.  Between now and then, we've got modern masters.

May also be worth picking up some of the better legendary creatures, as Sigarda/Thrun may see even more eternal or EDH play, though goodness knows Geist is already everywhere.


I think with this taking affect Geist might end up getting banned in Modern

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Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

I don't know, I've never seen Geist killed by a clone effect in modern.  Do any modern lists run phantasmal image or metamorph?  Most of the time, I see players just blocking it & taking 4 from the flier.  Definitely a powerhouse, but I don't know if this change actually impacts how its played. 

They tried to give answers to geist in the latest set, stuff like renounce the guilds.  I don't think it'll work to keep a lid on Geist in standard, but I think renounce has just become an EDH staple...

Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

Im  just going by what Im reading in on Forums. I think the issue was you didnt want to put the cheap enchantments on Geist that could on Invisible stalker because they could just clone and him and you lose it all. I think I dont know, I only ever play EDH so who knows what they are talking about lol..

Im not sure if I would say Renounce the Guilds is a EDH staple since it doesnt target and with so many decks being multicolored (including your own most likely) its not going to always hit what your looking to get rid of. If anything I would agree that it would be a staple in Mono White where you dont have to worry at all about losing something of yours.

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Re: New Rules Change - Legendary Creatures & Planeswalker Uniqueness

Creature enchantments are typically a bad idea because they're an easy way to get 2-for-1'd unless the creature has hexproof.  But it has been that way forever, and this change doesn't really except make it somewhat harder to kill legendary targets.  WoTC surely didn't intend this to improve Geist, though that's a clear side effect. 

I'm fairly confident this change is, in part, because WoTC thought the current rule was unintuitive (why should your clone kill my Ruric Thar?).  I'm speculating this change anticipates a legendary-themed block, because otherwise why the change now rather than 2 years ago or 2 years from now? 

To me, Renounce seems like a great way to get rid of voltron generals, where they often hit the board early, maybe after a mana dork, and have some kind of protection.  Sure you can play around it by ensuring you've got another multicolored creature on the board, but it is hard to play around a single card in EDH. 

Renounce also gets around Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Whispersilk Cloak, and the many variants that everyone slaps on generals, which is nice.  You can't rely on it, since it is a 1-of, but I think it is more useufl now that clone effects don't work anymore, so we're left with just Wraths.