Topic: First Deck Advice - Black / Red

So I made my first outline of a deck with some of the cards that I have...I'm new to playing magic, but I want to start going to some FNM's and see what other people are doing, but not get completely rocked. I've done a couple of booster drafts and done pretty well thus far, I've ended up going green/red both times, which is great as long as I didn't end up against something that requires straight removal instead of dmg based.

That being said I went ahead and built a black / red control type deck...I don't think there are a lot of tricky aspects to it..just remove and try to get creatures out there to swing away at what's left after I remove...I know the cards aren't the greatest and there are plenty of better options out there like Thoughtseize and lifebane zombie, which I am after just like everyone else...so what do you guys think?


http://deckbox.org/sets/498086

Thanks for taking a look!

Re: First Deck Advice - Black / Red

So first off, welcome to the game.

My first suggestion would be to go to your local FNM and just observe.  Depending on your local game shop's environment, you might be able to perform alright with a less polished home brew; however, if it's a more competitive store, you're likely going to just get destroyed.

Having said that, the deck as currently constructed has several issues.  The most pressing being that you're not clearly dedicated to a strategy.  You can really classify decks into one of three types: 1) aggro, 2) mid-range, and 3) control.  The first type is dedicated to putting as many threats on the board as possible and simply smashing face as quickly as possible.  Aggro decks are characterized by lower mana curves, typically ending at four or occasionally five.  Mid-range decks are meant to either ramp into or otherwise just last until you can start dropping bigger threats, typically ones that are harder to deal with.  As a result, your curve will be higher and you'll feature more removal.  The third type of decks are control, which outside of a few late game win-cons, consist of almost nothing other than removal and answers to your opponent's threats.  The plan here is to essentially just control the game until the later turns at which point you can resolve some giant threat that the opponent simply cannot overcome.

You state in your description that you're after a control-type build, yet, you really don't have that much in the way of quality removal.  If you're running black, you need to be sitting on a lot of unconditional removal like Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Hero's Downfall and Devour Flesh.  Red should be running Anger of the Gods, Lightning Strike, Mizzium Mortars and things of the like.  Additionally Dreadbores are nice to have too. You'll likely want higher end threats to be things like Desecration Demon, Sire of Insanity, Underworld Cerberus, and the like.  (Side note, Abhorrent Overlord works beautifully with Whip of Erebos).  Outside of these threats, you're going to want a LOT more removal, most importantly being Anger of the Gods, which will let you clear out the opponent's board quite frequently.

Without delving into specific cards too much, I would suggest figuring out which way you would like to run with the deck, then identify the cards that are critical to your strategy.  Then you ideally want to pick up multiples of those cards and run most of them as 3-4 ofs, as opposed to only having one copy of a card in the deck.  The idea here is to increase consistency across games, making the deck more reliable and more competitive.

All of that being said, if the LGS is super competitive, I would actually suggest trying another LGS and finding somewhere laid back, as the shops where people are dedicated to Grand Prix and Pro-Tour style events will typically have a TON of net-deckers and really just aren't as much fun until you're more skilled.

Remember, the biggest part is to have fun.  I hope some of this helped.

Re: First Deck Advice - Black / Red

Thanks for your reply and welcome to the game, I am loving it so far!

I live in Seattle, so there is plenty of options for FNM locations to attend. I'm thinking some of them are pretty competitive like you were saying, so it should be interesting to go observe for a while, I am definitely going to do that tomorrow.

Based on the classification types that you gave me I can definitely most likely see myself wanting to play more of a mid-range type deck. I don't have a ton of cards at this point as I just started getting into it about a month or so ago. Is it best to focus on strictly unconditional removal types of cards in all cases? Or will damage based cards work as well like Lightning Strike or Chandra's Outrage ? I had some trouble with using Red / Green in a booster draft due to not having any pure removal cards. So that's where I kind of came up with the thought of using black for some pure removal and I have a couple of bomb type black cards like the Abhorrent Overlord or Lord of the Void , so I thought I would just try to do the best to control what they bring out with the 3 Doom Blade , that I currently have, plus some of the others like Liturgy of Blood etc, until I can drop a bomb or a Sengir Vampire ....but maybe that's more of a Booster Draft type strategy? That's really my only experience of competitive type play at this point...

I see what you're saying about establishing consistency and obtaining multiples of cards that are key, I am finding the hard part is to actually look through what I have and pick what are good cards or combinations to actually build a deck around...granted I don't have a ton of good cards, or the immediate desire to just go buy 4x of a $20 card at this point considering I don't even know if I am going to like how that plays...but I have been pretty lucky in boosters thus far and pulled some bigger cards like:

Chandra, Pyromaster
Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Erebos, God of the Dead
Heliod, God of the Sun
Thassa, God of the Sea
Stormbreath Dragon - Just got this out of a booster last night


But, some of them are basically useless if the deck isn't built right....and again these are only single copies of these cards that I've gotten lucky and pulled out of packs, it would be awesome to have 4 Chandra's of course, but...that's not happening right now unfortunately smile

Thanks again for your input Ty, it's been very helpful and extremely informative.

Re: First Deck Advice - Black / Red

Well, so you're completely right that you don't want to go dropping $100 on singles for a deck you might not like.  Thankfully, you really don't have to.  The first option is to build the deck here on deckbox and simulate trial hands with it to see how you think it will perform.  The second option is to proxy up the deck and see how it plays.  This means simply putting basic lands into the sleeves with a piece of paper in front of them that explain what card it is supposed to be - this way you can simulate what it's like to play with the actual deck before you go splurge on all the cards.

My initial reaction would be to find a more laid back LGS to start attending as you really don't want to immerse yourself in an overly competitive environment just starting out (trust me when I say it's no fun running into a $1000 deck when yours is a total of $80).

Now, for the removal question, it depends entirely on the type of play you enjoy, the strategy you're looking to use, and a variety of other factors what is best.  In many instances the burn you see in red is sufficient to take out opposing threats; however, as you experienced in the draft, there are creatures that simply cannot be handled in that way.  Each color has its own sort of removal (or removal like option) and you really just have to decide which you like using.  Black is typically the most straight-forward; however, there are plenty of weaknesses there as black doesn't  have any way to clear the entire board currently in standard (as compared to red - Anger of the Gods & Mizzium Mortars; white - Supreme Verdict w/blue, Merciless Eviction w/black, & Planar Cleansing; etc. etc).  BUT, on the flip side, black's removal tends to be the most unconditional "kill target creature."

With regard to sorting through your cards to build a deck, unfortunately cards that shine as all-stars in draft and sealed formats aren't always the good cards in constructed.  So Sengir Vampire is pretty bad-ass in sealed, but in constructed, Desecration Demon is just plain better - it costs one less to cast, is a 6/6, and in the worst case scenario can serve as repeat removal.  To that end, I would suggest looking through your inventory and through the available sets to identify the cards that you really would enjoy playing with most and then try to build around those.  The alternative would be to look online for ideas, typically by looking at the decks that are performing well in major tournaments (you can find them on magic.tcgplayer.com).