Topic: [Request] Site Currency?

Okay, I just sold my first card via the new seller system. Great. Obviously it's a bit less-exciting to have to pay various transaction fees, but the Paypal ones are more-annoying because I think more can be done to minimize their impact... which isn't huge to begin with, but a few percentage-point margin is probably pretty big in a competitive environment like this one.

My suggestion: Introduce a site currency which is pegged to the USD. You can buy currency units using Paypal and sell them back to the site for USD using Paypal. But transactions done using these currency units within the site will not incur Paypal fees, obviously.. the regular 7%? Fine.

You can do this very conservatively. Buyers/sellers who don't want to use the site currency would still be able to use Paypal directly if they wish (and there are legit reasons to be wary of it, mostly trust-related.) But sellers should also be able to indicate that they accept the currency units.

Having a standard site currency would also confer a couple other advantages:

- It would encourage people to keep their wealth within the Deckbox system, which would increase transaction volume.

- The currency unit could basically be treated like a special card (it would just be another inventory item) and could be used in trades as well. Perhaps there'd be some special rule saying that when it's transferred 7% of it disappears to keep in line with current transaction costs.* It'd essentially be a way to add cash payments to the trading interface... which could also be done via Paypal, granted, but you need special infrastructure for that and you'd need to have everyone verify as Paypal users. Overall this would likely enhance the liquidity of the market.

* Ideally, I'd like to see the transaction cost of using tokens reduced to 0% and the site funded primarily through the transaction costs on Paypal transactions (whether we're talking about buying tokens or other cards using Paypal), but admittedly this might not be workable for the site's bottom line.

I wouldn't consider this a particularly high-priority thing, but it just seems like the impact of the Paypal transaction fees could be reduced and that a site currency could enable a lot of other nice features that would make both the trading and selling experience better. Some people might be skeptical of the site currency, but they wouldn't have to use it.

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

I agree, paying 10%+ in fees plus postage and shipping supplies can be pretty rough.

Tradelist

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

10% is the tied with ebay and lower than TCG by 1%. Shipping prices are universal so those will always have to be paid no matter which site you sell on. As for a site currency, it personally wouldn't serve a purpose for me. When I sell something I don't want imaginary internet money, I want real USD in my checking account and adding this currency would just be an extra step for me to get it there. In the end the result would be the exact same anyway as Deckbox would have to transfer the real money through Paypal. I understand that a site currency could be beneficial for people that are going to sell/buy/trade ONLY on Deckbox, but I bet the vast majority of Deckbox users do those transactions other places as well.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

It wouldn't be beneficial for people who trade only on Deckbox, it'd be beneficial for anyone who:

a) Engages in *both* buying and selling on Deckbox, as it would prevent you from hitting Paypal transaction fees repeatedly.

b) Wants something close to a currency that can be used for trades - right now trading is limited by the classic double coincidence of wants problem.

A seller who just wanted to dump all his sales directly into cash would not need the currency, but that user could easily be accomodated by just giving him an option to immediately convert out any currency he receives whenever a transaction includes it. It could be fundamentally indistinguishable from getting a Paypal transfer. It should be easily convertible to cash so that users aren't locked in to Deckbox - they'll just have to pay a small transaction fee to Paypal in order to get out of it.

Also, one additional issue that could arise is the abuse of Paypal chargebacks against sellers. A site currency could help insure against this risk if that would be a prudent thing to do.

Last edited by 9700377 (2014-05-02 14:03:04)

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

I don't disagree that this could have many possible advantages, but I still don't think it will work.

Look at the way that payments are handled today:
1) Buyer pays through paypal.
2) Paypal transfers funds directly to the seller's paypal account minus fees (Paypal is 3% + 30c)(DB is 6.9%).

Your suggestion is to turn it into this:
1) Buyer pays through Paypal.
2) Paypal transfers funds directly to Deckbox minus fees (3% + 30c), and seller gets DB bucks of equal value.
3) Seller is free to choose when to cash in DB bucks for real money minus DB fees (6.9%).

Results:
1) Paypal gets it's fees no matter what.
2) Deckbox makes less money since some of the fees they would collect are tied up in DB bucks.
3) Seller gains the option to trade his/her DB bucks, but after cashing in would net the same amount of real money as in the current method.

Is that really what you want to happen?

Oh, and don't forget that the DB devs would actually have to develop it. That takes time and money too. Plus, DB would then be handling everyone's real money instead of just collecting fees which, I imagine, could be problematic.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

Your suggestion is to turn it into this:
1) Buyer pays through Paypal.
2) Paypal transfers funds directly to Deckbox minus fees (3% + 30c), and seller gets DB bucks of equal value.
3) Seller is free to choose when to cash in DB bucks for real money minus DB fees (6.9%).

Nah, I have in mind something like:

Your suggestion is to turn it into this:
1) Buyer pays through Paypal.
2) Paypal transfers funds directly to Deckbox minus fees (3% + 30c), and seller gets DB bucks of equal value less DB fees. (6.9%)
3) Seller is free to choose when to cash in DB bucks for real money minus DB fees (6.9%, or perhaps some other rate. Maybe 0%. Paypal would take another 3% cut though).

Obviously if a seller wants to avoid the second charge when cashing out (if it exists) they could opt to avoid the currency entirely. The most-neutral (relative to the status quo) fee structure for this currency would be to make it cost 0% in DB to buy/sell currency for USD, but 6.9% is deducted whenever it's transferred. If you plan on immediately cashing out you should avoid the currency; otherwise it would probably be better than Paypal.

And I know there are dev issues which reasonably prevents this from being a high priority. I'm just saying that if the Market catches on and the devs are looking to weed out unnecessary transaction costs this would be a way to do it. And yes, the devs would essentially have to keep cash onhand but if people didn't trust the site they could choose to avoid the currency. Maybe there's some broader regulatory reasons why this would be difficult but I kinda doubt it.

Last edited by 9700377 (2014-05-02 15:15:52)

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

So the only difference is that instead of real money to trade we will have virtual money to trade. You do realize that being able to include some cash to balance out a trade has been an option forever, right?

Also, with the setup you just proposed, no fees are ever avoided. Isn't that what you were trying to achieve from the beginning? No Paypal fees?

Profile  Tradelist

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

You won't have to use the virtual money if you don't want to. It's up to you.

Introducing the market meant iirc that the rules were changed so that cash offers aren't allowed. Because obviously they could easily be used to circumvent the site fees.

In the setup I described, no fees are avoided if you're buying cards directly using Paypal. otoh if I were to just buy using site currency I wouldn't incur Paypal fees, unless I had to buy the site currency using Paypal. But insofar as site currency circulates once created each transaction won't require additional Paypal fees.

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

We have thought of this approach, but the problem is there are serious legal complications, because it falls under regulations for "issuing virtual currency". Especially since we're from EU and many customers from US, the whole thing is not trivial, to say the least smile.

We do not have the resources to make this happen, even if it made sense. Pherhaps at some point in the future, we can revisit this option though!

Re: [Request] Site Currency?

Interesting. Guess it's a money laundering thing. There goes my plan to funnel the proceeds of my blood diamond operation through dual land purchases..