Both! There are fewer untap options so I felt ok dropping a Kiora's Follower and a counter to put in two hydras. I don't ever want two of them out, so that should work just fine.
Also keep in mind redundancy. Having more than one Rhystic Deluge in play is meaningless (unless your opponent's play a lot of enchantment removal, which those who play against me learn to do). Same with the Prophet of Kruphix (though having one in hand is actually meaningful, since you can play it as an instant in response to, say, a doom blade). Kiora's Follower, on the other hand, at the very least counts as a land.
Consider this card. It allows you to tap Gilder Bairn on the cheap, it provides you a decent defense that could probably replace War Tax, and it works VERY well with the Prophet of Kruphix.
Look up a program called Forge (can probably find it by googling Forge MTG). It will allow you to play your decks against a really stupid AI, but it is good to test your deck's curve and manabase. Also, one caveat about Rhystic Deluge - it requires blue mana. So maybe not as awesome, but still good?
Yeah, but if it's done in tandem with Parallax Tide that's not really an issue. I made a copy that I think fulfills the vision you were thinking of (no hydra) where basically it either wins via elocutors straight out, or starves the opponent of mana and kills them slowly (but probably with elocutors)
I mean it doesn't fit because your win conditions do not play well together. They both benefit from enablers but that is where the synergy ends. If you draw the elocutors and the hydras, rather than vorel and one of the two, then you will most likely have a disappointing game.
While that's true, I'd bet that the Hydras can assist a lot on their own - especially since they naturally double their own counters and don't require Vorel or Gilder Bairn to do it for them.
I'd feel pretty bad paying 4 mana for a 2/2 that might turn into a 4/4 if it survives to my next turn. And I'd still feel bad to pay 4 mana for a vanilla 4/4.However, if my playgroup doesn't use a lot of removal, I'd feel much less bad.
Parallax tide is pretty awesome though. The earlier you get it out, the better too - it can end up giving you two or three "free" turns. I put it in my deck because I had Proliferate.
True, but now you're relying on three cards to do an interaction that is best done early game when you're already starved for mana.
I'm not saying it won't work, just that each additional condition makes it exponentially more unlikely. Fortunately, all these cards play well with the rest of the deck, except Parallax Tide.
I'm not saying it won't work, just that each additional condition adds exponentially more difficulty in pulling off the intended effect.
Fortunately, most of these cards interact well with the deck, except Parallax Tide, which is good by itself.
I guess I don't see how they don't fit - I mean from a thematic point maybe, but they got counters and i want to double counters. Seems legit. Also Parallax Tide looks pretty awesome for this too.
See, that's where the hydras came in - they have counters and can be exploited. Also they're relatively cheap to get out, particularly if I'm planning on doubling their counters. I like the idea of an offense better than a defense. I do like War Tax better than Elephant Grass for this deck.
Well, that is the problem with win-cards like the elocutors. It is awkward and things meant to support it are useless without it. That doesn't mean you need to give up, it just means you need to look for synergies, i.e., what also has counters that you can abuse with Vorel? I tried my hand at something with him (http://deckbox.org/sets/375485), though it is still just a rough sketch of what I want to do. Note the proliferate mechanic.
Also note that green and blue are fantastic for card drawing mechanics. The problem right now is that you have a lot of mana and it isn't being used for anything (lots of untapping lands/permanents and manadorks). You basically have to decide how you want to do this - create enough threats that your opponents have to defend against that they can't really deal with the elocutors, or try to go on the defense and creature a bubble that they can't penetrate. Or something else.
I think the other reason for the hydras is that without the Elocutors, Vorel is just a useless mer-dude. I mean, the combo is good, but I'm leery of relying on it too strongly.
I suppose at absolute worse though, I only need to double the counters 3 times to win even if they're at zero so it really doesn't matter that much
I can definitely see the need for some defense, and with all the mana you've can generate, I understand why you chose something with an X manacost. I just think there might be something better out there to keep you alive. Something like Elephant Grass or War Tax.
Honestly the hydras are there just in case I can't get any Elocutors out. Alternate win conditions and all that. Also I play a lot of 4 person games so I need to have slightly stronger defenses.
Yeah, I was just avoiding buying more of them. I definitely need the cayatids as well - this deck suffers from poor mana. If played well (with a good draw) it can end the game in 5 turns though.
Can't go wrong with temples of mystery, especially since they're strictly better than the guildgates.
I like the idea of this deck. Vorel works nicely with the elocutors, and the untap effects actually make it an interesting solution. What sticks out to me are the hydras. Those are beat 'em up cards, when your deck really just wants to hold out till you get the win. Its good to have alternate win conditions, but it is better if you can make them entertwined. I would consider counterspells.
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I think I'm going to test out this version for a bit - if the hydras really do end up being useless or not fitting well I'll pull them out.
Consider this card. It allows you to tap Gilder Bairn on the cheap, it provides you a decent defense that could probably replace War Tax, and it works VERY well with the Prophet of Kruphix.
I heavily simplified this version of the deck made a Copy of this deck under possibilities to try things out
I'm going to see if I can rework this deck to take advantage of that.
I'm not saying it won't work, just that each additional condition makes it exponentially more unlikely. Fortunately, all these cards play well with the rest of the deck, except Parallax Tide.
Fortunately, most of these cards interact well with the deck, except Parallax Tide, which is good by itself.
Also note that green and blue are fantastic for card drawing mechanics. The problem right now is that you have a lot of mana and it isn't being used for anything (lots of untapping lands/permanents and manadorks). You basically have to decide how you want to do this - create enough threats that your opponents have to defend against that they can't really deal with the elocutors, or try to go on the defense and creature a bubble that they can't penetrate. Or something else.
I suppose at absolute worse though, I only need to double the counters 3 times to win even if they're at zero so it really doesn't matter that much
I like the idea of this deck. Vorel works nicely with the elocutors, and the untap effects actually make it an interesting solution. What sticks out to me are the hydras. Those are beat 'em up cards, when your deck really just wants to hold out till you get the win. Its good to have alternate win conditions, but it is better if you can make them entertwined. I would consider counterspells.