sebi wrote:
rfioren wrote:

I DEFINITELY think that once a trader has an OPEN issue/complaint to resolve, that they should not be able to initiate new trades,

I am generally suspending users as soon as I see problems occur, and they become unresponsive...

It is hard to draw the line of when you want someone blocked. If just opening a dispute blocks someone, users will use that in annoying ways. If it would block both the disputer and the disputee, people would not open them because they would be blocked, and they will open a support ticket instead...

I agree with the idea of course, I was just not sure how to best put it in practice.

I think if someone is abusing this, that they should be suspended or banned. I see this as a pretty serious "red button" (like the button on trains for example). Pushing this stops the train (stops trades / summons an admin). If what they're complaining about seems frivolous, they should get a warning/suspension. All I can say is that as a trader making a potentially large trade, knowing that someone has an open complaint against them for fake cards or not shipping would make a big difference to me. As it is, I actually snoop around and look at past trades and open trades with my trade partners if the value is more than $50, but that's a time consuming, onerous, incomplete, and frankly a little creepy thing to do.

Alongside verification, I think the best way to prevent scamming is to leverage and surface the traders'/victims' experience as soon as they suspect something is wrong, to slow down the scam and prevent the next victim.

As a trader with 700+ trades here, and someone that has narrowly avoided being scammed 3 or so times out of high value cards, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

I think doing something to encourage more verification is good.
I think doing something to more forcefully encourage or require low-feedback traders to always send first to higher feedback traders is also good.

I personally am not too concerned about trading myself -- I've done well to protect myself so far. The scenario that most worries me is a scammer that works up a moderate number of trades (10-20) and then tries to scam large numbers of new traders with less feedback than themselves. I saw this happen at least twice in the last few years. They tried to scam me but I insisted they send first, and they either never did, or sent fake cards. I'm not sure what the right threshold is here, but I DEFINITELY think that once a trader has an OPEN issue/complaint to resolve, that they should not be able to initiate new trades, and an admin should probably review that immediately and also (probably) prevent any already-open trades from sending cards to that person until the issue is resolved.

One person getting scammed is bad. A whole bunch of people getting scammed because they can't share information quickly amongst themselves is a bigger tragedy, imho.
-Sherlock

28

(7 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

d72B wrote:
Helios52 wrote:

To be honest, It just makes more sense to double check prices in multiple places than to rely on one source. I have been cross checking between DB prices and all other sources since the begining so its pretty much second nature to me by now.

Yes longtime users know that Deckbox pricing has never been reliable and so they use outside sources. What about new users? Should they be warned to not trust Deckbox prices? What stops them from being taken advantage of?

Deckbox provides prices that are often wildly inaccurate and this is probably more damaging than not providing any at all. Should Deckbox remove its prices until they work?

As a longtime deckbox user with ~750 trades, I disagree somewhat. There have been periods when the pricing was bad, but for the most part most prices have been good enough. Foil pricing on more obscure cards, basic lands, and promos were most likely to be off. I'd guess that only 2-3% of my trades or trade partners objected to any trade proposals explicitly due to valuation, or insisted on valuing things using a different method. I think deckbox pricing has been mostly "good enough", and it's only in the last two weeks that it's laughably off. That said, I wouldn't trade a high end foil, or really any card worth >$20 without checking elsewhere, regardless.

29

(7 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

I don't realistically expect real-time price updates when something is spiking. I know that trading here and relying on pricing is a little "buyer beware" as it relates to prices. For big value stuff it always makes sense to spot-check a price. Most of us have been on either end of card trades have that changed a bit in value. I can (personally) live with a bit of a lag in prices, but what seems like weeks of incorrect prices on many cards just leads to a breakdown in trust -- especially with no apparent acknowledgement or announcement from the mods or even the users.

30

(7 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

I keep looking around for prices to update. A lot of cards have gone up in the last few weeks that are still way underpriced. I'm not sure if they're not updating at all, or only slightly, but here are some cards that seem way off:
seedborn muse
descendants' path
ABU dual lands
Lion's eye diamond
gaea's avenger
Magus of the Tabernacle

Basically, the pricing here seems broken. I'm surprised no one has posted about it. I'm tired of getting offers to trade my underpriced cards, and I don't have confidence to trade right now since the pricing is clearly off.

31

(389 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

descendant's path, foil and non-foil (not sure why this hasn't adjusted, it's been several days)
Antiquities urza lands seem a bit low here as well

32

(389 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

seedborn muse - legions is listed around 13, it should be around 29. thanks

33

(3 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

I can't tell which ones, if any, I was able to send. I attempted to send about 6 emails within a minute or so this morning. Thanks

34

(3 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

I just tried to email some fellow users about a bad trader but got a message saying that emailing is currently down. Is this a known bug/change? Any idea when it will be fixed?

35

(3 replies, posted in Reddit MTG Trades)

I've got two water-damaged Bayous that I'd trade at a discount if that interests you at all.

What condition is the Library in? I'm looking for one and have some duals to trade, but I probably can't afford it if it's NM.

I've got some extras, looking to swap for others.

Have: 1 Tundra, 1 Bayou, 2 Scrubland, 4 Badlands
Want: Wasteland (Tempest), Volcanic Island, Underground Sea, 4x Savannah

38

(389 replies, posted in Site Discussion)

Is it just me or is some of the antiquities prices on urza lands off? They seem here to mostly be $1-2 but are $2-4 most other places?

It's also minor, but I've noticed that a lot of 4th edition (bulk) rares seem to have significantly higher prices than 3rd edition rares, even though elsewhere they're usually the same, or even lower, in price.

e.g., Chaoslace .14 vs .25,
deathlace: .10 vs .35
titania's song .10 vs .29
fungusaur .12 vs .36
Crusade .46 vs 1.15

Still looking for more offers!

elpablo wrote:

I"m just wondering... without the BTR forum it's hard to know how rampant scamming is.  Whats the meta data?  What percentage of trades at any given time could be considered fraudulent?

We need to make sure it's visible when it happens, but I wonder if we're making it a bigger issue than it really is.

You may be right -- I don't think it's "rampant", but the last two scams that I had a front row seat to seemed to be "big", or rather, bigger than they should have been than I think they should have. Even if most people didn't read the BTR forum (I did), the takeaway I got from these recent scams was that the lag between first possible issue and banned is probably too long.

Sebi - any data or qualatative assessment? Was BTR forum ended because it wasn't effective? wasn't time-effective? or for legal liability issues?

sebi wrote:

Agreed on both points, I think showing that someone has an open dispute is important, and a limitation on new accounts.

Not sure if to limit the number of trades, or the value, or both. Suggestions appreciated!

Both probably, although value is more important. If you also implemented something about open disputes, it would be hard for a scammer to steal much if they could only do a couple of trades at a time and the value per trade was limited. By the time the first person flags their account they can only have scammed a small $ amount.

I'm not sure how it would go over across the rest of the users, but setting restrictions may also be more helpful for monetizing the site (not sure how that's going so far, would love to see an update). I doub't a potential scammer would be willing to give their paypal or CC info to you, so using payment as a gate would also keep scammers to lower activity levels.

What about something like you can't have more than N+1 (or 2) open trades at a time where N=current feedback. I might also set guidance, although maybe not a rule, that new traders should complete 5-10 trades with people with 10+ feedback before really going for it. I think the rippers are mostly taking advantage of the newer traders, so getting the newer traders some experience, and keeping the minnows away from the sharks a little bit would be helpful.

elpablo wrote:

I, also agree that new traders should have to start a little slower.  Making them send first doesn't mean they aren't abusing others.

And many of them are also trading with newer traders who don't know the rules, or have approximately the same feedback as the scammer. Someone with 2 positive feedback can force a bunch of 0-feedback people to send first under the existing rules.

Hi deckbox,

I've decided to try to complete some old sets - Arabian nights, antiquities, and legends. I have a lot of the commons and some other misc cards from those sets, but I need most of the uncommons and rares. It's hard to find them locally. I could just plop a bunch of money down on TCG player and buy them, but I figured some of you out there might have them to trade.

If you've got a bunch of (english only) cards from those sets, I'm willing to trade down, even from stuff not currently on my tradelist, if you're willing to give extra value. For example, I might trade a Bayou or for $250 worth of $<5 cards, or a Wasteland for 10 random $10 legends. (I've got JTMS, Force of Wills, dual lands, LEDs, Gaea's Cradle, etc, I just keep my inventory private at the moment).

I'm also happy to buy at prices < TCGplayer, but trading for them seems more fun.

Set up a trade if you're interested.

Hi Sebi / all,

I wanted to give my feedback on the change to the bad trader resolution tool. Since removing the bad trader forum, I've twice been involved with traders that turned out to be scammers. Both times I was hesitant to approve the trade and was willing to do so only because I insisted they send first. Both times they managed to get a number of other traders to send their cards first or "at the same time". Both times I ultimately reached out to other trade partners this person had going to see if they were having the same problems and/or to warn other traders. I feel like these issues could have been averted or mitigated with a few changes.

1. I liked the bad trader forums - it was a way to see if anyone I was trading with had issues in the past or issues that hadn't yet shown up in negative feedback.
2. People don't leave negative feedback until it's too late. By the time the negative feedback is up, a dozen or more people may have sent cards.

  • I think that it would be helpful if you were able to tell if a trader or potential trader had any "open" support/dispute cases against them, even if I couldn't see them. In the current setup, this is probably the first early warning flag that something is going on. As a rule, I would never send first/the same time if someone had any negatives or any open issues.

  • I also think that new traders (<10 feedback) shouldn't be able to trade above a certain value or have more than X open trades until they reach sufficient feedback. Both times the traders had "100% feedback", but only 2-3 pieces of feedback.

TL:DR We can't stop scammers, but we really should do more to empower traders to know what someone's been up to, and to slow their ability to scam a lot of people in a short period of time.

sebi wrote:
rfioren wrote:

Are there any plans to update the default price settings for cards with unspecified versions? For example, the site now assumes that a default lightning bolt is from MM2 rather than M11, even though the original MM set didn't originally do this. That is, MM1 set was treated like Commander/Conspiracy as a non-major printing while MM2 seems to be treated like a regular expansion. Is this an error, or intentional?

thanks!

This was an error, but now thinking about it I am not sure what it should be actually... I did receive feedback that for some FTV or duel decks, they should be considered "last printing" although they are non-major...

Thoughts?

I think it should be consistent at a minimum (e.g., treat MM1 and MM2 the same), and that any change you make would ideally be accompanied by an easier way to auto-tag un-tagged cards.

I don't think it makes sense to assume the printing of an unknown card is from a limited or minor product (such as FTV/duel decks). What I would probably suggest doing actually is to remove the set symbol for all un-tagged cards and just show the lowest price from all sets. Absent that, I would assume the card is from the most recent "major" printing, since that's probably the most likely. Now as for how I'd categorize MM2, since it's somewhere inbetween a major printing and a minor one is TBD. I'd probably call Commander a major printing, duel decks/FTV minor printings, and MM2 probably a minor printing.

The ideal solution is to find an easier way for people with large collections to set the versions of their cards (especially where there's a significant difference in value among editions) in an easy way.

Are there any plans to update the default price settings for cards with unspecified versions? For example, the site now assumes that a default lightning bolt is from MM2 rather than M11, even though the original MM set didn't originally do this. That is, MM1 set was treated like Commander/Conspiracy as a non-major printing while MM2 seems to be treated like a regular expansion. Is this an error, or intentional?

thanks!

Are there plans to also remove items from your wishlist when you make a purchase from someone else? (before you actually receive the cards)?

It looks like there's a difference between the value that I see in the trading opportunities page and what I see when viewing a user's profile (and it seems more than just the issue with foil vs non-foil pricing).

When I see user Avon in the trading opportunities page it says he has $3.02 in value that I need, but when I view his profile it says he has $8.08 that I need (and eyeballing it, the latter looks much closer). I see similar discrepancies with many others as well.

Also, it would also be awesome if we could see the NUMBER of cards, and not just the value, in the trading opportunties window -- just like we do in the marketplace, so I can know if someone wants $200 worth of cards, or really just wants 1 $200 dual-land.

Awesome Sebi!

Two minor UI suggestions.

1. When looking at a trade, I think that "my" side should always be on the same side (left?) regardless of who proposes the trade first. It's sort of odd that my view changes depending on who proposes first, and I think a more consistent view would be better.

2. In the trades view, I like that you added the country and feedback score info, but it seems a little cluttered. Two suggestions: 1. I think the star and the percentage info is redundant. Can we remove the star and just leav the percentage (especially since almost everyone has 99% or 100% score, the star doesn't show much). 2. Can we align the flags visually, like  halfway between name and the righthand side, so the names are a little bit cleaner and have more whitespace around them?

Overall love the changes. Keep up the great work!

Hi all,

I've got some extra non-blue duals, looking to get some more blue duals to help round out a set. (I know, me and everyone else, but worth asking)

I will entertain offers for non dual lands for my dual lands, but they would have to be significantly in my favor.

Have:
3x Savannah
2x Badlands
2x Scrubland
1x HP Unlimited Bayou
Most stuff in my inventory not marked as tradeable

Want:
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
2x Tundra
1x Revised Bayou