Topic: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/devotion … 9-02-14-2/

The plan here is pretty simple.  Build some devotion while I'm turning my creatures sideways, and then drop a fanatic of Mogis or two for the win.  Pretty simple, eh? 

Ideal play goes something like this:
T1 - Mountain, Rakdos Cackler
T2 - Mountain, BTE, Madcap on Cackler
T3 - Mountain, Boros Reckoner
T4 - Nykthos, Fanatic, Fanatic

Now that's in a perfect world, which isn't usually the real one.  I have a few issues with the deck, and hope you all might offer some input.

I only have four one drops - I can't seem to find anything else that fits, and I seem to have an overabundance of two drops at the moment.

I'm running pretty light on removal - and I'm not even sure that magma jet is the right thing to be running.  The scry 2 does really help in a pinch, but 2 damage doesn't always get the job done.  I've got some Mortars coming in trade which I think will probably be a better solution.

Madcap Skills - it's a really fun card, but is it the best thing for this deck to run?

I really would like this deck to be competitive, am I screwing myself by staying mono-R?  Is the jump to Gruul or Boros going to make a big jump in how effective this deck is?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Tradelist - Wishlist - Profile

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

So for starters, why not run the version of this list that is already well documented, established, and such?  I'm normally not one to suggest net-decking, but you're so close to that list I'm not sure I see a good reason to deviate from it.

As for things to switch around, you stated an interest in additional one-drops and reducing the two-drops.  So that in mind, I would say perhaps to look into Foundry Street Denizen as another one-drop.   Considering that every creature in the deck is red, you're going to be sitting on a lot of triggers that will ensure it almost never swings for one. 

As for the two-drops, I can see where Burning-Tree Emissary might underperform for you, given that it's going to produce the off-color mana when you put it down - not exactly what you're looking for a lot of the time.  I know that it's essentially a free creature and it leads to some pretty crazy devotion on T2-T3, but I could see where another Ash Zealot would be better in this situation. 

Also, Madcap Skills really doesn't do much for you considering that you're going  the devotion route - you're likely going to win your games as a function of Fanatic of Mogis, creatures pumped by Purphoros, God of the Forge, or Stormbreath Dragon - so to that end, tossing out opportunities for them to two-for-one you aren't exactly ideal.

A few added points, you're DEFINITELY going to want to add the other 3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.  For removal, Magma Jet is good for fixing draws, but I would openly explore the idea of Searing Blood in that slot as the added damage goes a long way.

Good luck!

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

TyWooOneTime wrote:

So for starters, why not run the version of this list that is already well documented, established, and such?  I'm normally not one to suggest net-decking, but you're so close to that list I'm not sure I see a good reason to deviate from it.

To be honest, I like putting my own spin on thing.  I like utilizing things in different ways from other people.  I also like bringing out decks that people don't know quite what to expect.  Not to say I don't look to others for inspiration, but I enjoy my own flavor.

TyWooOneTime wrote:

As for things to switch around, you stated an interest in additional one-drops and reducing the two-drops.  So that in mind, I would say perhaps to look into Foundry Street Denizen as another one-drop.   Considering that every creature in the deck is red, you're going to be sitting on a lot of triggers that will ensure it almost never swings for one.

Foundry Street Denizen seems pretty solid, I think I'll probably replace BTE with him, and see how it goes.

TyWooOneTime wrote:

As for the two-drops, I can see where Burning-Tree Emissary might underperform for you, given that it's going to produce the off-color mana when you put it down - not exactly what you're looking for a lot of the time.  I know that it's essentially a free creature and it leads to some pretty crazy devotion on T2-T3, but I could see where another Ash Zealot would be better in this situation.

I have the fourth Zealot, and the rest will probably go to the Denizens mentioned earlier.

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Also, Madcap Skills really doesn't do much for you considering that you're going  the devotion route - you're likely going to win your games as a function of Fanatic of Mogis, creatures pumped by Purphoros, God of the Forge, or Stormbreath Dragon - so to that end, tossing out opportunities for them to two-for-one you aren't exactly ideal.

Good point.  I'll probably choose to run more removal with the spots occupied by madcap right now.

TyWooOneTime wrote:

A few added points, you're DEFINITELY going to want to add the other 3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.  For removal, Magma Jet is good for fixing draws, but I would openly explore the idea of Searing Blood in that slot as the added damage goes a long way.

Good luck!

Here's the thing about Nykthos:  Being that almost all of my mana costs are R, and that Nykthos is legendary, I am very hesitant to run it 4x.  Early game, it's basically a dead draw, and god forbid I get two of them early on.  Basically, it can't do anything for me until at least turn three, but more realistically, turn four or five.  Maybe two, but for this build, four seems pretty dangerous.

Tradelist - Wishlist - Profile

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

i love madcap tongue
cackler is solid early, denizen is good mid/late
have u thought about
Firefist striker to replace bte
currently bte is ur weakest it is a free cast but only for half ur spells/creatures

and i honestly think madcap should stay have u used it on frostburn? t2 frost t3 madcap on frost swing t4 pump him!!!
also what about the new archtype 1RR gives all urs trample all of theirs lose it...
http://mythicspoiler.com/bng/cards/arch … ssion.html

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

drgolovacroxby wrote:

To be honest, I like putting my own spin on thing.  I like utilizing things in different ways from other people.  I also like bringing out decks that people don't know quite what to expect.  Not to say I don't look to others for inspiration, but I enjoy my own flavor.

I'm all for innovation.  I've been play-testing a TON of different ideas as of late and am open to something new, but the devotion decks have been pretty well defined for a while and don't have that much room for change as, well, they've been tried and run enough to work out the kinks.  Most of the "ideas" really just translate into sub-optimal builds.  That being said, there's a TON of space for innovation if you're interested in going other routes - R/W heroic, mono-red burn (oddly not really done yet), different takes on R/G, anything successful in R/U, R/B anything other than mid-range, etc etc... and those are just the ideas using red as their central color.  My suggestion is to look at the other decks and maybe make 1-2 card substitutions, but be aware that you're likely not making the deck better outside of your local meta (it sucks, but it's the reality of the matter).

drgolovacroxby wrote:

Here's the thing about Nykthos:  Being that almost all of my mana costs are R, and that Nykthos is legendary, I am very hesitant to run it 4x.  Early game, it's basically a dead draw, and god forbid I get two of them early on.  Basically, it can't do anything for me until at least turn three, but more realistically, turn four or five.  Maybe two, but for this build, four seems pretty dangerous.

If you get a second, third, or fourth copy, they can be used to stack your mana - activate one, then drop the next for your land-drop for the turn and use the mana in the pool to activate the new one.  This exact process is part of how G/R devotion can absolutely explode with mana (Voyaging Satyr or not).  Yes, you have a LOT of colored symbols.  But that is actually all the more reason to run 3-4x.  You will ALWAYS want to have one and the best way to ensure you actually draw one is to run more.  If you're not comfortable with 4x, that's fine, but you'll want no less than 3x, otherwise you might as well just run all Mountains and you'll be missing out.

While Madcap strikes you as a good option on paper (and it will perform in some matchups) it really just invites the opponent to two-for-one given the wealth of removal that is circulating these days.  Perhaps if the deck were more aggro based it would make sense, but I just don't think it'd be a safe move given the current meta.  You might be able to sneak it in if mono-black loses some favor...

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

TyWooOneTime wrote:

While Madcap strikes you as a good option on paper (and it will perform in some matchups) it really just invites the opponent to two-for-one given the wealth of removal that is circulating these days.  Perhaps if the deck were more aggro based it would make sense, but I just don't think it'd be a safe move given the current meta.  You might be able to sneak it in if mono-black loses some favor...

I've actually replaced all the madcaps with searing blood, which has been awesome in playtesting.  The last game I played, my opponent had just played a scooze at three life, and was about to reap the GY to stabilize, when I Searing Blooded it in response for the win.  Really fun card.  I didn't have any foundry denizens, but I've also added nyxborn rollickers to replace the BTEs. 

I keep forgetting about the new legendary rule, and that was part of what was spoiling me on nykthos.  I've also found that I can sac Nykthos to the hammer right before I drop another one, which is a lot of fun.  I guess I need to get two more to complete the playset.

I'm still looking at the Boros/Gruul versions, and it looks like if I'm going to go either way with it, boros is the way to go.  I've already got all of the lands and the chained to the rocks and charms, I'd just need to assemble the legions for the sideboard.  I think I'm probably going to bring this deck to this week's FNM as it is to see how it performs, and then see which splash (if any) is going to help in my local meta.

Once again, thanks for all of your help.  You always seem to give excellent advice, and it is much appreciated!

Tradelist - Wishlist - Profile

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

Alright, so I've done some extensive playtesting on this bad boy.  I have ended up putting in the Boros splash, if only to effectively combat Desecration Demon which is a huge problem for the mono-r build.  My list looks like this now:

Main:
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Ash Zealot
4x Frostburn Weird
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Fanatic of Mogis
3x Purphoros
3x Stormbreath
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Chained to the Rocks
2x Hammer of Purphoros
3x Boros Charm
4x Nykthos
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
12x Mountain

Side:
2x Chained to the Rocks
2x Assemble the Legion
Boros Charm
4x Searing Blood
Anger of the Gods
4x Revoke Existance
Wear//Tear

Planeswalkers can still be a huge pain for me, which is why I main so many of the charms.  I keep all the enchantment hate for control matchups where d-spheres are a big threat to my gameplan.  I think I've made all the revisions that I can think to make, but I'm certainly still up for any advice on how to handle U/W Control, and Mono-U which I haven't been able to test against.

I've also been tinkering with replacing the Cacklers with the BTEs.  Sure I lose all my one drops, but I can make up for it by dropping a BTE into a Zealot on T3, which is way better for devotion.  Also, I can use BTE to activate nykthos.  Is it worth losing my one drops?

Last edited by drgolovacroxby (2014-02-18 05:31:07)

Tradelist - Wishlist - Profile

Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

I see a lot of decks go with out the one drops.  If you end up with scry/shock lands then chances are your not playing anything turn one anyway.  I think the BTE is better for this style of deck than the cackler.

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Re: [Standard] RDW (Red Devotion Wins)

elpablo wrote:

I see a lot of decks go with out the one drops.  If you end up with scry/shock lands then chances are your not playing anything turn one anyway.  I think the BTE is better for this style of deck than the cackler.

Agreed.  I've actually run a R/W devotion deck for a few months now (here's my list: http://deckbox.org/sets/589771) so I can speak from experience.

I originally ran 8 one drops but all of them ended up underwhelming both in the devotion department and just as not great creatures, especially in the late game.  Burning-Tree Emissary is good early and late, since the mana acceleration always matters unless she's the only card in your hand.  Also I think running 4x Chained to the Rocks is almost essential as you need answers to Master of Waves and Desecration Demon or you are most likely just going to lose.  If you need the Boros Charms after game 1 you can always side them in.

Once I started playing this deck as less of an aggro deck and more of a midrange/win with Purphoros/Fanatic/Stormbreath from devotion deck I started winning much more often.  It has the ability to explode and win out of nowhere and is super fun to play when you curve out.

As for beating U/W control, unless they don't draw Supreme Verdict you will have a hard time winning game 1, but after you board in your Boros Charms (for Verdict protection), Skullcrack (to combat Sphinx's Revelation), and Revoke Existence (for Detention Sphere) your chances go way up.

For Mono-U Anger of the Gods hits most of what they play, and Chained to the Rocks handles Master of Waves.  Really this match up is not that favorable for this deck, so it usually comes down to who curves/tempos out first.

Good luck and have fun with this deck, I really enjoy running it!