Topic: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

For smaller trades, it often doesn't make sense to purchase tracking given the cost (1.93$ for a 5$ trade). If you send a package without tracking, what defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt? Can you at least leave neutral feedback telling what happened?

What about if you do use tracking, but the person claimed to have opened the package and seen nothing, or claimed that you sent them basic lands?

Last edited by anoda9 (2014-10-28 16:55:56)

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

Neutral feedback can be used at your discretion. If you weren't particularly happy about how a trade turned out go ahead and leave neutral and say why in the feedback.

As for people claiming non-receipt, there isn't much you can do about that. Sending in a pwe has a chance of getting lost. In almost 190 trades I've only had 1 pwe get lost. It does happen. Sending with tracking should be safer, but I just recently had a bubble mailer go missing (TCGPlayer sale) and unless you have insurance all USPS does is say "Whoops, sorry" and then you eat the loss. For higher value trades I like to take a picture of the cards with the addressed bubble mailer as proof. Also, purchasing shipping labels through Paypal will provide you with proof that the address was entered correctly and whatnot so that should help.

Profile  Tradelist

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

anoda9 wrote:

For smaller trades, it often doesn't make sense to purchase tracking given the cost (1.93$ for a 5$ trade). If you send a package without tracking, what defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt? Can you at least leave neutral feedback telling what happened?

What about if you do use tracking, but the person claimed to have opened the package and seen nothing, or claimed that you sent them basic lands?

In all mail trades/sales unfortunately the sender assumes more risk. I can buy something off ebay claim it was empty whether or not it is tracked. I can do the same on a trade. The only thing that prevents this from happening is reputation. Thats why ebay has a feedback score, deckbox does etc. if you are the boy who cried wolf you'll get caught eventually. But sure, nothing really stops you from trading for a Mox claim they sent you a token card etc. Well, the seller may depending on value take precautions. I think if I was going to mail power I'd probably video record myself packaging it.

It is basically the honor system with the understanding you can get away with it once or twice but thats probably it.

I've had two packages I sent not arrive, both were low value that I accepted the risk, one I paid for replacements from TCG player and had them shipped. the other I offered replacement, the guy never took me up on it and left me a neutral it was weird. I've also had 2 packages sent to me not arrive, one turned up at the senders house after like a month, the other I never heard more about it. Both traders made up for it without complaint.

Last edited by jassi007 (2014-10-28 17:15:25)

Profile|Tradelist|Wishlist

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

I know this is a month old, but it is not fair to the recipient to receive neutral feedback if they did not receive your package.  Letters are processed differently than bubble mailers and do get lost more often.  It also depends too on how you delivered your shipment to the post office.  Did you drop it in a blue mailbox?  Or did you just give it to your apartment complex management to ship?  Or did you hand it to the mailman outside your house?  I have never had a package or letter go missing when I personally delivered it to the post office. 

For smaller trades, it often doesn't make sense to purchase tracking given the cost (1.93$ for a 5$ trade). If you send a package without tracking, what defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt? Can you at least leave neutral feedback telling what happened?

Yes it does.  You are sending $5 or so worth of cards, and you should be receiving $5 worth of cards.  The $1.98 is your shipping price to send the cards first class with tracking. Shipping has no bearing on the actual cost of the product or item.

Whether you are a trader or a seller, whenever you agree to send something, it is your responsibility to get it to the recipients hands.  If the recipient never receives it, you are at fault, and you must refund him/her.  This is why you should always send with tracking as it will cover you or at least let you know where the package is.

Zthun's Website

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

I've shipped some 250 or so orders as a TCGplayer seller, most of which have been too small to justify the $1.20 tracking cost.  If you add up the, let's say 200 orders that shipped for $0.70 (first class with rigid/non-machinable surcharge) versus $1.93 (first class package with tracking), I've saved $240, and not one has been lost.  With that in mind, if and when one is lost (and it will happen), the tracking wouldn't have helped anyway - as others point out, all it does is protect me from an unscrupulous buyer, not from a post office mistake - and I'll happily refund the buyer's money knowing I'm still coming out very far ahead.

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

Digren wrote:

I've shipped some 250 or so orders as a TCGplayer seller, most of which have been too small to justify the $1.20 tracking cost.  If you add up the, let's say 200 orders that shipped for $0.70 (first class with rigid/non-machinable surcharge) versus $1.93 (first class package with tracking), I've saved $240, and not one has been lost.  With that in mind, if and when one is lost (and it will happen), the tracking wouldn't have helped anyway - as others point out, all it does is protect me from an unscrupulous buyer, not from a post office mistake - and I'll happily refund the buyer's money knowing I'm still coming out very far ahead.

Are your buyer's paying for the shipping?  If so, that's pretty shady to charge the $2.00 - $3.00 for shipping and then ship for $0.70.  Even if you charged for the envelope, tape, gas, and every other nickle and dime item; that's pretty messed up.  EBay sellers gouge the shipping all the time, and it's always a crappy way to do things. 

If the shipping is payed by you, then that's a different story.  You're not likely to make any profit selling cards if your shipments cost more than your sales.

Zthun's Website

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

Zthun wrote:

I know this is a month old, but it is not fair to the recipient to receive neutral feedback if they did not receive your package.  Letters are processed differently than bubble mailers and do get lost more often.  It also depends too on how you delivered your shipment to the post office.  Did you drop it in a blue mailbox?  Or did you just give it to your apartment complex management to ship?  Or did you hand it to the mailman outside your house?  I have never had a package or letter go missing when I personally delivered it to the post office.

I don't think it's unfair. People need to stop treating neutral feedback like negative feedback. I think it's fine to use neutral feedback when something odd happens but there's no actual determination of guilt.

Really, I think this just speaks to the weaknesses of the current feedback system overall. People are way more averse to neutral feedback than they should be.

Re: What defense do you have if someone claims non-receipt?

Per the rules (emphasis added):

3.1 Manipulating feedback score by any means (Fictional trades or users) is sanctioned by banning. Neutral Feedback does not affect a user's Percentile, and is to be used at a user's discretion.

Neutral feedback is not part of a member's feedback percentage. As such, it is a reasonable action.

Profile - Wishlist - Tradelist

Black and Blue--not just for bruises anymore.