Topic: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

So for whatever reason I've decided that it would be nice to have a halfway decent standard deck to be able to take to FNM in the fall.  I've also been greatly amused by some of the combos that are out there in just M13.  So, I've decided to make a RG deck that rocks Slumbering Dragon and some Roaring Primadox combos.

This is what I have thus far:

http://deckbox.org/sets/199066

Realistically, the plan is to drop one (or more) Slumbering Dragons early in the game and then either wait for my opponent to wake them up or do so myself.  The best part being that there are numerous ways I could wake the li'l guys up: 1) Ring of Valkas is an obvious start; 2) Bond Beetle when paired with Roaring Primadox turns into an easy counter per turn for one G; 3) Increasing Savagery or Blessings of Nature will do the trick pretty quickly; or 4) I just let them attack me and rock a Fog, giving him the counters but not dealing the damage to me.

I also like the Roaring Primadox and Elvish Visionary combo to let me draw additional cards each turn.

I currently have some other dragons included in the deck in case they are running heavy removal and take out the Slumbering Dragons, Roaring Primadoxes, and even Sentinel Spiders (after all, who is going to expect them to KEEP getting bigger?).

I've included some removal of my own in the form of Searing Spear, Volcanic Geyser, and Prey Upon, but is that enough?

Sheltering Word is in there to shield my dragons while they're sleeping.

Lastly, Titanic Growth is pretty self-explanatory, get those last damage to win, pump up the blocker, or even just pump up for a massive Prey Upon.

My biggest problems are as follows:

1) I like some of the combos that I have going here, but I obviously have too many cards.  I'd like to knock it down to 60.  But what do I drop? 

2) I fear that I don't have enough removal or evasion.  Am I going to get murdered by a counterspell deck or an aggro that's just faster than I am?

3) What, in general, should I drop to increase the consistency of the deck?  I'm not big on 4x of everything because that leads to really predictable decks, but I'd be willing to drop a few things here or there if it will make the deck more consistent.

I'm going to be extra receptive to input here as I haven't played anything competitive outside of drafts and releases (which it goes without saying are totally different).

The floor is open... Thoughts?

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I also stumbled across Rolling Temblor just a few minutes ago... thoughts on that rather than Searing Spear?  It would be less directed, but could board wipe tokens easily.

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

You know Magic 2012 is cycling out of Standard in October right?  Unless the Birds of Paradise and Flameblast Dragon get reprinted in the upcoming block, you may as well consider dropping those now, to keep from having to retool it later.

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Those were just thrown in for the time being... it should be easy enough to find another legal dragon or green meanie to replace the Flameblast.  Any thoughts on a replacement for BOPs?

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

My thought on the BOP, keep em, they were re-printed in almost every core set but the only non core set that they were printed in was Ravinica 1.0, i'm willing to bet they'll be back

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I agree, you can probably keep the BoP.

Onto some other ideas....  I think you might be a bit too spread out.  With essentially two of everything and then a few one-ofs you won't end up having a lot of consistency, it might be better to focus your efforts in a few places, rather than trying to account for everything all at once.

From my experience, Roaring Primadox can be amazing!  But you also have to realize that he can easily lead to your downfall.  Have a BoP, Elvish Visionary and Primadox out, if they are able to play something like Mutilate or a burn spell to take out more than one small creature, like Arc Trail or Rolling Temblor, even if it wouldn't take out Primadox, it might as well have, because you're going to have to return it to your hand at the beginning of your next turn, meaning you'll need to reuse all of your mana to recast it or something else in your hand.

But, if you do plan to keep the Primadoxs around, there are a few other options you could look at as well, because there are a lot of great ETB effects that you could make use of.  Acidic Slime, Craterhoof Behemoth,Mindclaw Shaman & Zealous Conscripts to name a few.  Additionally, there are a few great cards that you could add that will help in a similar manner.  For instance, Champion of Lambholt - every time you bounce and recast a little guy you make your bigger guys more unblockable.  Angel's Tomb - You're already recasting creatures every turn, and this provides a great creature for that environment that is immune to Sorcery speed removal.  Lightning Mauler - Bounce it and recast to automatically give whatever else you're going to cast that turn Haste.  Technically it is rotating out with M12 but, if you play the deck before then, you could include Warstorm Surge, for some easy burn every turn.

With the Slumbering Dragons, it might be a good idea to give your opponent more of a reason to attack.  What if you have a couple Planeswalkers building to their ultimates soon?  They're going to need to stop that.  You already have a one-of Chandra, but you could include more, as well as Garruk, Primal Hunter, which would also give you "free" creatures to bounce with Primadox, if it comes down to that.

I'm not sure that the Farseeks will do you too much good.  They will filter a couple lands out of your deck, but you probably don't need them for mana fixing if you're only running two colors.  The only thing I see that really justifies it is the Moonveil Dragon, with the RRR mana cost, and that just seems to be there to go along with the dragon theme.

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

This is definitely some good feedback.  The BOP won't be going anywhere until I have to move them.  Same can be said for the Fireblast at the moment.

Null: You're likely right about Farseek and the need to provide more "motivation" to attack.  I've added a Garruk as well.  Yet, it looks like most of the comments you've given are centered around Roaring Primadox (who I'll agree is pretty mean!) and the ETB effects, but I'm still wanting to center on the sleeping dragons.  After all, the thought of an 8/8 flyer for one mana is just sick.  I completely agree that the deck is far too scattered at the moment, but that's where I'm looking for some guidance.  I've actually never played standard constructed, so I don't know what I would be most likely to see, and thus, what I really need to tailor the deck to be prepared for. 

Do you three play at your local FNMs?  Standard?  What are the most common themes?  Delver and Snapcasters... but what else?  Do I have to worry about a lot of board clearing effects?  How often do things like Rolling Temblor make the cut?

The nice part of Slumbering Dragon is that you're likely going to cast it before your opponent will have the ability to counter it, but there's ALWAYS removal.  It sure would suck to get up to four counters and then BAM! Murder.  That's what Sheltering Word is there for.  But beyond that, what options do I have?  The games I've played at my LCS were always sealed, so I don't know what I watch out for (and I know that there's no way to predict what everyone is running, but if you're playing FNMs on a regular basis you should have a feel for what's out there... at least a better feel than I do, which, admittedly isn't hard).

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Yeah, sorry for the lack of overly sound advice.  I have mainly been playing Sealed/Draft but, just like you, I am just getting into Standard Constructed, so I was giving feedback based on my experience in drafts and such with the Primadox.

As far as Standard goes, you're definitely going to need to look out for removal, but sadly, there isn't too much you can do to protect in those colors.  One option could be to include the blue ring as well, Ring of Evos Isle, to have the ability to give it Hexproof.  Beyond that, Ranger's Guile and Sheltering Word are probably your best options.

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I've been playing alot of constructed lately, I've seen little delver since everyone hates it so much, I mostly have the annoying UB humans "Silverblade Paladin then Geist of Saint Traft, when the geist attacks I soulbond the angel token to the silverblade and hit you in the face for 12 since I have 2 Honor of The Pures out" really annoying and competitive. Also lots of duplicators Phyrexian metamorph phantasmal image stuff like that. M13 is bound to shake some stuff up but idk what'll actually see play, I usually use my shape anew deck and lose pretty bad

You should consider Hamletback Goliath, Acidic Slime, Mindclaw Shaman, Borderland Ranger, Champion of Lambholt, Soul of the Harvest, Manic Vandal,  and Thragtusk/Thundermaw Hellkite (if you want to drop alot of cash) also Yeva, Nature's Herald she can be really mean when you have blockers out of no where or your blocker is tougher also Urabrask the Hidden since all of your stuff's gonna have summoning sickness

In this deck I don't think you're best off using x2 of so much stuff, consistency is key in most constructed decks

Last edited by imsully2 (2012-07-15 04:43:38)

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I thought of another, obvious, way to get your opponent to trigger your dragons.  Literally make them do it.

Aggravate
Curse of the Nightly Hunt
Guise of Fire
Heckling Fiends

And then you can of course stave off the extra attacks with Fog effects and such.

Blunt the Assault
Clinging Mists
Fog
Moonmist
Terrifying Presence


And if you wanted to work your way into white as well (or possibly even in place of green):

Soul Parry
Safe Passage
Defang
Gideon Jura

Gideon would actually be perfect because you can make them attack without any danger to yourself.  And, coincidentally, that M13 Ajani that you have been trying to trade away lately has the ability to give your creatures +1/+1 counters; just saying.

White also opens up a bunch of other options:

Gavony Township
Elder Cathar
Cathars' Crusade
Mikaeus, the Lunarch

Last edited by NullParameter (2012-07-15 16:58:36)

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I've tinkered a bit to get it down to 60 cards.  Feel free to look at the current format and any thoughts are welcome.

http://deckbox.org/sets/199066

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

The only couple things I can think of are......

You only have 4 creatures total in your whole deck that are really suitable targets for your three Roaring Primadoxes, which might be a bit overkill if you aren't going to make huge use out of it.

If you're going to be forcing them to attack, you might want more fog effects, otherwise they're going to dump one or two semi-big creatures and you'll have nothing to guard yourself besides a couple of weenies.  I would actually suggest running Blunt the Assault, if you have the mana available, because that can really turn the tides in your favor with the life gain, or even Terrifying Presence, because you can prevent all the damage from their creatures while simultaneously taking one of their creatures out.

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

You are completely right.  I don't know why I'd reduced the number of Beetles and Visionaries to only four.  Now they're back up at three of each, ensuring a 2:1 ratio of things to unsummon and Primadoxes.  I think it's settled on the right cards, now it's just a matter of how many of each.

I've also sideboarded some Acidic Slime to help with artifact/enchantment removal if they're running a lot of that.  I also sideboarded Clinging Mist as it can work like Sleep if I've been getting my ass handed to me.  Rolling Temblor in retrospect is another sideboard card as it will work wonders for me against token generators and exalted decks, but would likely end up hurting me more than my opponent most of the time if it's not timed correctly.  Other sideboard fun includes Beast Within (I know it's rotating out soon) for anything too big to handle with Prey Upon, one Bower Passage if they're generating flying tokens to make my dragons unblockable wink, and some of the M13 spiders (sliklash and sentinel) to deal with things loaded down with flyers.  I've been weighing Stingerfling Spider to pair with the Primadoxes, but for the time being I'm not going to track those down as they're going to rotate out in October too.

Am I missing anything, or do we potentially have a competitive deck here?

On a total side note, I realized how much fun a deck could work with 4x Circle of Flame, Curse of the Nightly Hunt, Slumbering Dragon, and Gravity Well.  Anything without a toughness greater than four is torched, while having to attack every turn, and giving my dragons counters.  Toss in Furnace of Rath or something comparable and you're board wiping them every turn while working to your success... if only those were standard sad .

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

So I've been running a LOT of hand simulations on this deck and it struck me that I'd still be susceptible to a lot of removal once I'm out of Sheltering Words.  So I dropped Chandra, the Firebrand and one of the Sheltering Words to be replaced by 2x Ring of Evos Isle.  I won't get any counters, but that's a guaranteed hexproof for two colorless.

Were there any other thoughts on sideboard items or anything else here?

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Ew, Ring of Evos Isle, the worst ring by far, use Mask of Avacyn, you don't have blue so the p/t boost is more valuable than the slow growth that wouldn't happen. Also you don't need mana open for it to be useful

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

That is a much better idea.  I don't know what I was thinking.  The added cost isn't that big of a deal... thanks!

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

TyWooOneTime wrote:

That is a much better idea.  I don't know what I was thinking.  The added cost isn't that big of a deal... thanks!

It's a new card and lets be honest almost no one uses the mask because Swiftfoot Boots are way better but about to rotate

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Yeah.  Someone had suggested those, but I wasn't wanting the entire deck to be rotating come RTR release.... It should be workable to lose BOP and Beast Within.

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

My thought is do you really need BOP and the big dragon? It's nice as a board wipe but your opponent will very likely chump it so unless you pull in Rancor (which you should either way) I feel like it's unlikely to actually pull anything off. I'd recommend dropping the balefire dragon and BOP in favor of x3 rancor or x2 rancor and a fourth bond beetle since it's what ties your two combos together. Also you should consider Yeva, Nature's Herald, she works really well with your bounced cards. Finally I'd recommend Deadly Recluse, you're forcing your opponents to attack you full out, you need some way to stop them from hitting you and the Recluse is an excellent option

http://deckbox.org/users/imsully2

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

The only reason I'm still wanting the BOP is because the deck REALLY needs to pull a Slumbering Dragon in the opening hand to really be effective.  If I'm willing to mulligan 3-4 times to ensure that, I often end up with only forests and sadly there's no Avacyn's Pilgrim equivalent to switch between green and red.  I can't even count how many hands I've simulated where the BOP are the only reason I manage to get one of the dragons out early.  Further, they provide just a little bit of ramping to let me dump Increasing Savagery on turn three to wake up a dragon.

I can see the argument against the Balefire Dragon, but I figure if they manage to knock off my Slumbering Dragons it's really my only remaining bomb to try and win the game.  That or if they have to choose between an 8/8 dragon and a 6/6 dragon that clears their side of the board, well, that's not a good choice for them.

Rancor would definitely be useful and I'll definitely consider it, as it could make a Roaring Primadox far more dangerous in a pinch, but I don't know that it will be necessary for the dragons.  If they can chump block an 8/8 flyer consistently, (or 9/10 if I have a mask on him) more power to them.

Still good ideas though... I'm REALLY chomping at the bit to put this thing together so I can see how it plays.  Sadly I have a TON of work to finish and a move before I can really afford to pick up more cards sad .

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Someone over at tappedout gave me a priceless idea.  Rather than Balefire Dragon, Elderscale Wurm pairs with Curse of the Nightly Hunt and Mask of Avacyn for a hexproof creature that prevents all the damage done to me.  Him being a 7/7 (or 8/9 when equipped) trample doesn't hurt either.

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Someone over at tappedout gave me a priceless idea.  Rather than Balefire Dragon, Elderscale Wurm pairs with Curse of the Nightly Hunt and Mask of Avacyn for a hexproof creature that prevents all the damage done to me.  Him being a 7/7 (or 8/9 when equipped) trample doesn't hurt either.

Very nice!  When do you think you'll get around to testing it out?

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

Sadly I have a move, a TON of work, and a conference to get through first.  My guess would be either mid-late August or early September.  sad

Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

TyWooOneTime wrote:

Sadly I have a move, a TON of work, and a conference to get through first.  My guess would be either mid-late August or early September.  sad

You should give it a try on Cockatrice.  I haven't had much time to go out and test my deck ideas either, so I started using that program to give them a go whenever I had a bit of free time.

Let me know if you ever plan to get online.  That goes for anybody; I think it would be a great idea to help test each other's decks.

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Re: Insert Clever Deck Name Here... Comments?

I wanted to bump this one as I came across a few ideas that I think will help it flow more smoothly.

To be specific, I've dropped one Bond Beetle, increased to 3x Elvish Visionary, put in 3x Borderland Ranger to ensure I don't get mana f'ed (and they work nicely with Roaring Primadox), dropped Flames of the Firebrand in exchange for Searing Spear (it's an instant and costs one less), dropped to 1x Curse of the Nightly Hunt and added 3x Guise of Fire (as it can serve as both small scale removal and force their vulnerable creatures to attack), added 2x Rancor to ensure that the Slumbering Dragons won't get chumped once they wake up, threw in a Triumph of Ferocity as the dragons will keep growing, so hopefully it will help me draw more.

I'm liking it better for the time being as I'm not forced to just mulligan until I get a Slumbering Dragon with the current makeup.  In one simulated hand I even ended up with a 7/6 trample BOP by turn three.

I think that's all.  Thoughts as she now stands?