[Question] Trade downs [Input Desired]

Wow, where to even begin on something like this.  So I'll apologize for the long-winded response before I even begin.

I think Anubomb has really hit the nail on the head saying, "each trade is situational;" because, really, I can think of numerous reasons why the "extra" value would change.  But let me begin by saying, if you come up with a good system that people buy into, props to you (but I fear you might need an advanced degree in economics to really pull it off, as this is, technically, an empirical question that could be answered if someone with the right expertise and time to kill wanted to survey the existing trade data - with some help from Sebi to export it all, of course ).

Just some of the factors that I can think of off the top of my head include:

1) What format is the large card you're trading down? (I feel it should warrant more extra if it's something that cannot be pulled from a pack tomorrow)

2) How available is the large card?  Could the card be purchased easily, and, if so, for how much? (Even some legacy staples are widely available, whereas others, people tend to hold on to.  For this someone should look at how many people have them in their tradelists.  If I'm one of only 4-5 people willing to part with it, that should garner extra value, as opposed to a card that could be picked up from one of a hundred different traders).

3) What is being offered in return? (Again this is a completely idiosyncratic variable.  If they're trading you cards that are more than say, 25% of the large card's value each, then I'd say anywhere from 10-25% extra would be fair.  If none of the cards even top 10% of the large card's value, I don't think I'm out of line saying an extra 25-50% would be warranted - especially if the majority of the trade is comprised of junk commons/uncommons - or as I call them, penny cards.  I think you would be hard pressed to expect anything more than 50% extra value in any trade.)

Other factors that I won't even pretend to know how to operationalize include:

1) How much does the person want/need the card?  (This really works both ways.  How much do you want to move the large card?  How much do they want to get it?)

2) How much trouble is someone willing to go to in order to get the card? (I've actually had someone go to an LGS to pick up other items on my wishlist in order to make a trade work - but I hardly consider this the norm).

3) Cross-Format trades? (How much value is gained/lost between legacy and standard?)

4) As Anubomb said, rotation status, or even, time remaining to rotation?

5) Overall demand for the large card?  (You can bet someone that puts a Bonfire of the Damned up for trade is going to want a fair bit for it because they're in such demand right now - such that you cannot even purchase them from a lot of LGSs).

6) At what value do these rules even kick in?  $5, $10, $20?

Again, sorry for the lengthy response. I do wish there was an established protocol for this sort of thing, but realistically, the factors I've listed above are just the proverbial "tip of the iceberg." 

Personally, I'd just setup some ground rules for what you think is fair so traders can know what they're getting into when they try to trade for a larger value card.  Then it's really up to the two of you to sort out what a fair "extra" compensation for the larger card is.

Agreed.  I'm not looking for a perfect system, but want to present a set of general rules or guidelines regarding such trades with me.  TyWooOneTime also hit on the complexity.  I think a general set of rules establishes a baseline, and the negotiations may progress from there.

I plan to do as best I can, and still welcome further discussion and feedback.

Okay, I've put some additional thought into this and have worked out a tentative ratios for defining values for trade downs.  Look at what I've devised, and let me know if it seems reasonable.

If you trade with equal (or nearly equal) value (card for card), 
we will always trade 1:1 unless we negotiate something different.  
If you want to trade at a different value ratio, use the following 
table as a starting point.

For the table below, you are trading for one of my higher value cards.

Qty.    
(yours)    Value
-------------------
2-3        1:1
4-5        1:1.25
6-10        1:1.5
Many        1:2

That means, if you want to trade $10 cards for a $40 card of 
mine, I'd expect to see at least five $10 cards on your side of 
the deal (1.25 x $40 = $50).

If you want to trade a bunch of $4 cards for the same $40 card, 
I'd expect at least $60 of $4 cards.

If you want to trade a bunch of low value cards (<$4) for the 
same $40 card, I'd expect at least $80 in value.

Now, if your trade proposal has a mix of card values 
(Ex.: 1@$10, 4@$4, and many low value cards), we'll need to 
negotiate the value proposition, but it likely be slightly higher 
than 1:1.5 (perhaps 1:1.7).

If you are trading for multiple cards of mine, I'll match up cards 
close in value at 1:1 and then consider the value proposition for 
the balance.

Last edited by HikingStick (2012-09-07 12:55:42)

I can definitely say that I am glad that I've never traded under those terms. 

The most I've ever had a swing of is a dollar or two, and I've had a whole bunch of cards traded for a few, in both directions.  Unless I'm giving something up that I still have a use for, and as long as I'm getting something that I want in return, I don't see the point in needing to have such a drastic skew in values. 

Value is so relative.  I value a lot of bulk cards for my EDH decks at the same as your standard/legacy cards, and vice versa, because I generally only trade for things when I want them, and if I want them, then what is the difference if I have to trade one big card to get them?

I recently gave away an ajani, CoTP (~$18-$20) for about $20 worth of jank. I didn't feel the need to ask for extra jank because my card is playable, i got a stack of cards i wanted (about 13 cards) and that is more valuable to me than my one Ajani.

I think when making a bulk offer that it fair to try to have one card that is worth at least 50% of the highest value card. I also try to consider when trading commons that the price on here is what you can expect to pay retail. My LGS charges 10 cents a common and 25 cents an uncommon with a few exceptions for legacy and other things that are worth more than a couple bucks. So when I trade I try to give my stuff a lower value to make it worthwhile to not just get the stuff at a LGS about 30-50% of the stated value on here for anything valued at 80 cents or less.

Just thought I'd put my trade philosophy out there.

Also on a side note I don't know about everyone else but I prefer to use StarCity when it comes to trading foils because they give a more solid number to work with as compared to TCG and ebay.