Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Vincentarasin wrote:
Helios52 wrote:

That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

If you get a kick out of that, you should come hang out at my LGS tongue

Its absolutely entertaining as heck smile

Especially when they see my playmats, heh. I'll have to contact the mods and see if I can post pictures without getting in trouble =P

I want to see the playmats...    : )

User Profile -- Trade list  --  Wish list

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

asmodeanreborn wrote:
dorvaan wrote:

This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal.  For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

That's what I thought until one of my recent trades. I'm out a Snapcaster because of it.


"June 20: Out for Delivery" 
"June 20: Delivery Status not updated" 


Aaaaand yeah. No more Snapcaster, and I had to send a new one out.

If you call Customer Service and file a case they can put a tracer on it and when it shows up will call you and you can either have it sent to the original destination or back to you. This does take sometime tho cause when it happened to me, the card bounced around for month before I had any idea where it was. That being said, Ive noticed that insuring packages tends to get more attention from the PO bc when they are actually responsible to pay you back if they lose it, they actually update it accordingly.

Profile - Haves - Wants

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

1441425842 wrote:
jassi007 wrote:
AmarusCameron wrote:

I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

I didn't miss it.  It was stupid on his part to say it, but he is frustrated about being out $50 in a trade. I can understand that. Everyone who thinks he is really going to drive 6 hours to yell at a guy about a magic card raise their hands. I think posting one side of a story and letting the other person be tried in the court of public opinion is a problem. Let the mods sort this out. Look at the feedbacks. Joe has 12 trades and 2 neutrals, midnight has 88 and no neutral or negative. Which trader is the one that other people have had problems with and which one hasn't had one dissatisfied trade partner until now?

Take a look at the previous conversation on this page and you will see that other trades that midnight is a part of have similar situations. Pay attention before you start making assuming judgements just based on # of trades


I did see that. Then I looked at his trades. There are a lot of them pending, but almost none of them are marked as shipped by either party. Nobody else he has traded with has opened a BTR or left him anything other than a positive feedback.  There is one other trade that midnight received the cards, but the other party didn't yet. Midnight sent on 7/18 so its only been 5 days. I don't see any comments on any trades, so I don't get what people are saying about his trades indicating he is a scammer. In all seirousness, what am I missing? It looks like there are a lot of proposed but not accepted trades. That happens to me when I go on a trading spree, then they all get marked as confirmed, then complete etc. Does having a bunch of pending trades just automatically mean you are scamming?

Profile|Tradelist|Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Helios52 wrote:
Vincentarasin wrote:
joecat70 wrote:

Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

Not, specifically.

Now, there are certain cases (like what I did with an asshat detailed here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699) where you can take some action.

That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

Yeah, that was a pretty good read. Also, Sebi said he was banned for 3 months... almost 3 months ago.
Looks like that person's ban is going to lift in the next few days. Think he'll be back?

Profile | Tradelist | Wishlist
I'll sometimes trade things in my Inventory. It doesn't hurt to ask.

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

They are looking within trades themselves at the offers being made and assuming that it means hes scamming because some of them seem lopsided and he has opened trades from 2 months ago. Honestly I dont think that can really constitute scamming because it could just as easily be starting offer to gauge interest. If thats what people deem scamming, I may have to change my approach lol

Profile - Haves - Wants

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

asmodeanreborn wrote:
dorvaan wrote:

This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal.  For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

That's what I thought until one of my recent trades. I'm out a Snapcaster because of it.


"June 20: Out for Delivery" 
"June 20: Delivery Status not updated" 


Aaaaand yeah. No more Snapcaster, and I had to send a new one out.

On the whole, this still covers your bum a whole lot more than sending WITHOUT delivery confirmation.

Profile |  Tradelist | Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Helios52 wrote:
asmodeanreborn wrote:
dorvaan wrote:

This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal.  For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

That's what I thought until one of my recent trades. I'm out a Snapcaster because of it.


"June 20: Out for Delivery" 
"June 20: Delivery Status not updated" 


Aaaaand yeah. No more Snapcaster, and I had to send a new one out.

If you call Customer Service and file a case they can put a tracer on it and when it shows up will call you and you can either have it sent to the original destination or back to you. This does take sometime tho cause when it happened to me, the card bounced around for month before I had any idea where it was. That being said, Ive noticed that insuring packages tends to get more attention from the PO bc when they are actually responsible to pay you back if they lose it, they actually update it accordingly.

Weird - I talked to them, and they said I just had to wait...

Profile

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Wow... this guy, joecat70

First off people, I'm the one who is being scam.
I initiated the trade with him on June 25.
I ignored the fact that he had zero feedback from chalabi. I figured he is still trust-able even though he had no negative feedback, some positive feedback, and thinking nothing could go wrong since I haven't had any bad experience so far... until now

The trade was my Voice of Resurgence and Parallel Lives for his Liliana of the Veil and Stomping Ground.
The Voice of Resurgence was valued at $50 at the time, it was an even trade when I initiated the trade. I only had one copy, and getting a play set seems very expensive. I had no desire in keeping one copy, so I decided to trade it out a.s.a.p. while it was still in demand for something useful. I believe it's price will drop in the future (which it did).

My experience in long-term investment (those trade were even and fair at that time), for example:
3 Angel of Serenity for 3 Snapcaster Mage, and now http://deckbox.org/trades/38843?s=21519
Thundermaw Hellkite for Wooded Foothills, and now http://deckbox.org/trades/46030?s=21519

Im not prefect, I do make bad calls: deathrite shaman, sphinx revelation, Fetid Heath, etc... sigh, that's the beauty in magic.

Anyways, before I get all side track... bare with me here, I do have a point.

When the trade was finalized, I mail mines out on June 28 (also with other trade I had going on). On the same day, his trade status marked as deliver.

After 2 weeks of not seeing his mail, I got worried and p.m. him.

MidNight12    its been two week, its should take this long for mailing. especially you aren't that far from me.    12 Jul
MidNight12    it will only take me 6 hr to come get to you if i've known this trade will take this long to complete    12 Jul
joecat70    I don't have another lily and I have not recieved the cards    12 Jul

I thought to myself maybe it was the 4th of July holiday the could of push our mail back, but my other trade I mail out on the same day were completed. Still I gave him the benefit of the doubt, that maybe he lived in the middle of no where like in a farm or something and the mail man is having trouble finding the location. Then again, I lived in the city.

I ran out of patience after a month, it was getting ridiculous and p.m. him again.

Notice within that month NOT ONCE he have question or have any concern about this trade until I mention it. This guy obviously back out on this trade and act like he's the victim, that's my point.

here's our complete entire convo.:
MidNight12    i notice you have interest in these cards, let me know what you think about this trade    24 Jun
joecat70    I'm good with this, I do have to double check on the fiend hunter,.    24 Jun
MidNight12    so... do u have yhe foil fiend Hunter?    24 Jun
joecat70    no not anymore.    25 Jun
MidNight12    hows this?    25 Jun
MidNight12    its been two week, its should take this long for mailing. especially you aren't that far from me.    12 Jul
MidNight12    it will only take me 6 hr to come get to you if i've known this trade will take this long to complete    12 Jul
joecat70    I don't have another lily and I have not recieved the cards    12 Jul
joecat70    I am starting to have doubts that you shipped the cards, I am going to talk to the post office and find out where my cards ended up.    17 Jul
MidNight12    ill go friday during lunch break    18 Jul
MidNight12    well?    22 Jul
joecat70    they have no idea where it is.    23 Jul
MidNight12    alright joe, i send my cards for sure. all my trades went through fine except for yours. a trade from CA i made, completed in a week. its been a month and i haven't even gotten your mail, funny. i also notice your trade with Barcod3 haven't been completed since july 7th. you dont seem worry and not much complain coming from you, im speculating you recieve my card already.    23 Jul
MidNight12    if you have no interest in completing this trade, i would like you to either send back my cards or pay through paypal for my lost.    23 Jul
joecat70    will you be paying for my cards? I am out a lilliana. Barcode hasn't been online since the 14th so that isn't a liable excuse.    23 Jul
MidNight12    so this is the game you want to play. i go to wisconsin with some buddy fishing frequently, 6 hour aint a far drive. it will be an annual thing    23 Jul
joecat70    So you will pay me then?    23 Jul
joecat70    I am pissed now, I don't like threats. I want my lili back    23 Jul
joecat70    look at that barcode was on vacation, he had no problem getting his cards! Why don't you just ship my lili back.

Last edited by MidNight12 (2013-07-25 06:07:41)

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

anubomb wrote:

This is curious. Midnight also claims to have not received your cards according to the trade it seems like. He has had 88 completed trades on this site with 100% rating. You've had 9, and have cancelled 2 trades after accepting them.

My point is that let's not all go to the side of this dude based on his side of the story. He could just be getting the jump on midnight for the inevitable dispute involving mods.

Edit: Scratch that. From midnight's ongoing trades, it seems like he's changed his honest ways and wants to scam as much value as he can before his account's shut down. We probably need to get a mod involved immediately so more people aren't scammed.

Also I can't stress enough using their personal information against them. By that I don't mean putting it online, but getting the cops involved and getting the real person behind the online username into trouble. People do online scams because it doesn't impact their real life. Once that's threatened, however little, they will usually get scared.

replying back to anubomb, UnstableFlux and AmarusCameron regarding about me going on a trade spree.

If this was my last “horah”, I think I would have gone for something of a higher value. I didn’t’ bait people by offering liliana or force of will and not complete the trade. That would be considering as scamming, see the difference?

Take a closer look at the mass “ongoing” trade that I initiated. They are fair-trade, and they are at least average of $10 in value.

Most of my trade currently completed and initiating are for shock lands. I plan to take a break from competitive magic when my semester begins, so I can focus mainly on my study because it is gonna be my last semester (hopefully). I believe shock lands price will go up, and have a closer gap value with the older version. When I get back to magic, I plan to trade away my extra for cards I’ll be missing out on.

There’s my explanation.

Last edited by MidNight12 (2013-07-25 06:13:05)

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Vincentarasin wrote:
joecat70 wrote:

Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

Not, specifically.

Now, there are certain cases (like what I did with an asshat detailed here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699) where you can take some action.

Sadly this kid ended up escorted out of the very event he threatened to find me at.

But legally? Nah, not really. It's technically considered a threat, but the honest answer is the cops won't do anything *until* its too late.

Mods can, however, take action. It won't get your LOTV back though without filing mail fraud. I'd personally do it.


replying back to Vincentarasin (a profile pic. of him holding a sparkler), AmarusCameron, UnstableFlux, and Chase regarding about this so called "threat".

I read your http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699%29

Vincentarasin    Actually thats just being petty, as it says nothing of the sort.    21:26
Gizzet    i only wish to hear from you again if you decide to come to the vegas gp so i can meet you in person.    23:37
Vincentarasin    You're way out of line buddy. I'll see about fixing that feedback on my end.    23:49

I agree with you, I see the threat there. “come to the vegas gp so i can meet you in person”. There’s action and he implied “you” as an indication in that sentence. That wasn’t smart of him.

Here mine:
http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11434

How did I threaten him, enlighten me?
Is it because I mention about going fishing with some buddy and I didn't invited him? If that's threaten, then fine. He's welcome to fish, but I'm not going to let him borrow my fishing pole cause I don't think I'll get it back.

Last edited by MidNight12 (2013-07-25 06:11:12)

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Here to chime in since my name was mentioned.

My experience with him is that he is a little shady.

We set up a trade, accepted it, gave shipping info.

Was verifying when we would ship and then the next day he randomly canceled the trade and hasn't said anything back other than leaving me with a neutral feedback calling me a scammer.

Now, as a relatively new trader, it's very hard for anyone to be interested in trading with me because of that one comment that was completely uncalled for.

Tradelist Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

chalabi wrote:

Here to chime in since my name was mentioned.

My experience with him is that he is a little shady.

We set up a trade, accepted it, gave shipping info.

Was verifying when we would ship and then the next day he randomly canceled the trade and hasn't said anything back other than leaving me with a neutral feedback calling me a scammer.

Now, as a relatively new trader, it's very hard for anyone to be interested in trading with me because of that one comment that was completely uncalled for.

Might want to talk to the mods, they can fix the rating so people won't think badly of you, they generally are willing to work with people.

Profile     Tradelist     Wishlist

Always interested in expeditions, invocations, foil full art lands, and reserved list

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

jassi007 wrote:
AmarusCameron wrote:

I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

I didn't miss it.  It was stupid on his part to say it, but he is frustrated about being out $50 in a trade. I can understand that. Everyone who thinks he is really going to drive 6 hours to yell at a guy about a magic card raise their hands. I think posting one side of a story and letting the other person be tried in the court of public opinion is a problem. Let the mods sort this out. Look at the feedbacks. Joe has 12 trades and 2 neutrals, midnight has 88 and no neutral or negative. Which trader is the one that other people have had problems with and which one hasn't had one dissatisfied trade partner until now?

Thank you for notifying me about this, and being understanding.
Looks like you are the only person who has some senses around here.

Last edited by MidNight12 (2013-07-25 05:40:53)

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

So, just because I'm having a bit of a tough time following along, was there no Delivery Confirmation on the one set of cards so now this is a big, "he said, she said" argument over whether or not they were actually sent? If so... USE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION!

Profile | Tradelist | Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

outofstep wrote:

So, just because I'm having a bit of a tough time following along, was there no Delivery Confirmation on the one set of cards so now this is a big, "he said, she said" argument over whether or not they were actually sent? If so... USE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION!

I don't think that is the message per say.  Although with a $50 trade it starts to get to the value that they probably should have, but I understand not paying $1.69 for every trade + penny sleeves + top loaders + bubble mailers. It depends on the trade and the parties involved. The real lesson I think is trading through mail has issues that no amount of feedback and rules can overcome. Sometimes mail gets lost, and sometimes people can be less than honest. If you don't know how you will handle that up front, don't trade by mail. You can go read the tradelog they both posted. After midnight sends a message saying it has been two weeks and I haven't gotten the card, the first thing joe says is I don't have another Liliana.  That statement alone tells me he had no plan on what he would do if he sent a high value trade and it got lost in the mail. One of them may not be truthful, nobody can prove who, so it doesn't matter.

They just learned a $50 lesson about using delivery confirmation. Site trade rules state senders are responsible for cards arriving. Since neither party says the have cards and neither can prove otherwise, you go to the rule for resolution. They can't return each others cards, so they can purchase and resend replacements, or pay compensation. Now since like most people they traded equal values, they are both out about $50-60 so they both write it off as even. We all just hope one of them wasn't lying and kept $50 worth of cards.

Profile|Tradelist|Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

I don't think that is the message per say.  Although with a $50 trade it starts to get to the value that they probably should have, but I understand not paying $1.69 for every trade + penny sleeves + top loaders + bubble mailers.

Delivery confirmation is the answer to most of the issues people post about in this forum. In the case of this trade, both parties could quickly and easily see if said package ever left it's origin or if it just sat there with the status, "Electronic Shipping Info Received" which means a shipping label was created, but nothing was ever mailed. DC would also show if the package was weirdly routed to Alaska and then disappeared, which gives you solid proof to file a complaint with the USPS for a lost package. As it stands, these guys have to say, "derp, I mailed an envelope from this place a couple weeks ago, did you lose it?"

Also, the whole $1.69 + sleeve/top-loader + bubble mailer... that's what we call the cost of doing business. If you can't afford it, you probably shouldn't be trading on the Internet. I find it funny that people will double sleeve a card and put their own playmat over a store mat, but when it comes time to mail a card... here you go USPS, take this $50 card in a regular envelope, add it to the 440,000,000 other pieces of mail you received today and we'll all just hope everything goes as planned.

As someone who is all about DC and proper packaging material, I wouldn't mind if those items were added as check boxes when creating a new trade. I look through someone's stuff, pick out $27 in cards, check the boxes for DC/bubble mailer and it adds another $3 bringing my total to $30. If I receive the cards and they're in a standard envelope and/or a DC was never provided... boom, negative feedback.

Profile | Tradelist | Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

outofstep wrote:

I don't think that is the message per say.  Although with a $50 trade it starts to get to the value that they probably should have, but I understand not paying $1.69 for every trade + penny sleeves + top loaders + bubble mailers.

Delivery confirmation is the answer to most of the issues people post about in this forum. In the case of this trade, both parties could quickly and easily see if said package ever left it's origin or if it just sat there with the status, "Electronic Shipping Info Received" which means a shipping label was created, but nothing was ever mailed. DC would also show if the package was weirdly routed to Alaska and then disappeared, which gives you solid proof to file a complaint with the USPS for a lost package. As it stands, these guys have to say, "derp, I mailed an envelope from this place a couple weeks ago, did you lose it?"

Also, the whole $1.69 + sleeve/top-loader + bubble mailer... that's what we call the cost of doing business. If you can't afford it, you probably shouldn't be trading on the Internet. I find it funny that people will double sleeve a card and put their own playmat over a store mat, but when it comes time to mail a card... here you go USPS, take this $50 card in a regular envelope, add it to the 440,000,000 other pieces of mail you received today and we'll all just hope everything goes as planned.

As someone who is all about DC and proper packaging material, I wouldn't mind if those items were added as check boxes when creating a new trade. I look through someone's stuff, pick out $27 in cards, check the boxes for DC/bubble mailer and it adds another $3 bringing my total to $30. If I receive the cards and they're in a standard envelope and/or a DC was never provided... boom, negative feedback.

I'm not disagreeing that delivery conf. makes these problems go away. However Will you spend $3 to trade for $1 in cards? I'm saying that there is a place it makes sense to use tracking and sometimes it does not. It depends on the value of the trade. I should have made that more clear. These two well they've learned that if you can't/won't afford to be out $60 in cards you should have spent the $3. I do agree.

Profile|Tradelist|Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Question. I saw here that people are able to create shipping label for their stuff through paypal with DC at the nominal price of 1.69, I'm having trouble finding that, do you need a merchant account?

Thanks for any thoughts you all have.

Profile     Tradelist     Wishlist

Always interested in expeditions, invocations, foil full art lands, and reserved list

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

AmarusCameron wrote:

Question. I saw here that people are able to create shipping label for their stuff through paypal with DC at the nominal price of 1.69, I'm having trouble finding that, do you need a merchant account?

Thanks for any thoughts you all have.

No you as long as you have a registered Paypal Account you can use it. I believe the correct link for it is at the top in one of the stickies...

EDIT: Yea what Jassi posted is what I was looking for. I have it shortcutted in Google Chrome but whenever I try to send that to people it just gives them a session timeout. Setting it to "Thick Envelope/Package" and to about 3oz will ship about 20 cards between toploaders for 1.69. You can also set the amount of insurance for the package but only up to 500.00.

Last edited by Helios52 (2013-07-25 14:27:19)

Profile - Haves - Wants

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

AmarusCameron wrote:

Question. I saw here that people are able to create shipping label for their stuff through paypal with DC at the nominal price of 1.69, I'm having trouble finding that, do you need a merchant account?

Thanks for any thoughts you all have.

Nope.  Here you go. https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now

Profile|Tradelist|Wishlist

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

Thanks gents!

Profile     Tradelist     Wishlist

Always interested in expeditions, invocations, foil full art lands, and reserved list

Re: What can I do about people scamming?

It sounds like the moral of the story is that everyone should use delivery confirmation and tracking to ship all cards they don't want to end up having to ship twice.  Saying that the 'package got lost in the mail' is one of the oldest and most foolproof scams online.  Don't give anyone the opportunity to scam you.  I've had several people claim not to have received cards I've sent them, only to have the cards miraculously appear shortly, as in an hour or two, after sending them the tracking number (or paypal shipping summary listing tracking number and addresses).


Here are a couple of trading guidelines I follow to keep things like this from happening to me:

1. Request pictures of valuable cards - I don't want NM cards showing up in SP or MP condition, also proves that the individual has the cards -- can do a tinyeye search if you're really paranoid.  Don't deal with people who don't send pictures.

2. Cancel the trade if the other person seems at all sketchy - completely subjective

3. Discuss and agree on a shipping method prior to accepting trade - I've canceled trades because they wouldn't send cards w/ tracking and refused to...

4. Have them send first if they don't want to use tracking - again, not going to send my cards out when the only guarantee they will arrive is that they marked them as sent.  If they don't arrive it is my word against theirs, and that is more trouble than I can be bothered to deal with.

5.  Insure the package if the trade is >$75 (costs a few bucks but sure beats loosing a couple hundred in the mail)

6. Always communicate with the trading partner.  This includes telling them why you are cancelling a trade, telling them that the cards arrived and are in the condition described, giving shipping updates, etc. 

I don't follow my own guidelines for all trades, I send a lot of PWEs all over too, but be sure to follow them every time when conducting large trades.  Haven't had any problems with large trades yet.  This might seem like a laundry list of things to do, but they aren't difficult and can save you a lot of hassle.  Good luck everyone.

Profile
Tradelist
Wishlist