Do not trade with the user Midnight12. He is currently scamming me out of a liliana of the veil and a stomping grounds.

http://deckbox.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=56

You go to the above link and file a BTR and let the Mods contact him. If he continues to ignore you or you get no contact, you can file Mail Fraud and he can be banned from the site

Open a thread in the Bad Trading Reports forum linked here:

http://deckbox.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=56

I was wondering about this since Midnight12 has 88 feedback 100% positive, but after looking at his open trades it does appear as though he is scamming now

He is responding to me, but he is saying that its all my fault.
MidNight12 alright joe, i send my cards for sure. all my trades went through fine except for yours. a trade from CA i made, completed in a week. its been a month and i haven't even gotten your mail, funny. i also notice your trade with Barcod3 haven't been completed since july 7th. you dont seem worry and not much complain coming from you, im speculating you recieve my card already. 14:34
MidNight12 if you have no interest in completing this trade, i would like you to either send back my cards or pay through paypal for my lost.
will you be paying for my cards? I am out a lilliana. Barcode hasn't been online since the 14th so that isn't a liable excuse. 14:47
MidNight12 so this is the game you want to play. i go to wisconsin with some buddy fishing frequently, 6 hour aint a far drive. it will be an annual thing 14:55
joecat70 look at that barcode was on vacation, he had no problem getting his cards! Why don't you just ship my lili back. 15:06

The barcode trade was completed and I received positive feedback, but I don't know if I should file yet or not becuase he is responding to me. Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

You still can if you wish. Filing a BTR will just get a Mod involved and they can help sort out what needs to happen to get the trade resolved.

I think you need to get a mod involved immediately, also make it clear that you will contact the police if he threatens you.

Chase wrote:I think you need to get a mod involved immediately, also make it clear that you will contact the police if he threatens you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you guys for all your help. I have filed a report and will let the mods figure out what is going to happen.

This is curious. Midnight also claims to have not received your cards according to the trade it seems like. He has had 88 completed trades on this site with 100% rating. You've had 9, and have cancelled 2 trades after accepting them.

My point is that let's not all go to the side of this dude based on his side of the story. He could just be getting the jump on midnight for the inevitable dispute involving mods.

Edit: Scratch that. From midnight's ongoing trades, it seems like he's changed his honest ways and wants to scam as much value as he can before his account's shut down. We probably need to get a mod involved immediately so more people aren't scammed.

Also I can't stress enough using their personal information against them. By that I don't mean putting it online, but getting the cops involved and getting the real person behind the online username into trouble. People do online scams because it doesn't impact their real life. Once that's threatened, however little, they will usually get scared.

This is why I ask people with 15 or less positive feedback to send first.

Mail Fraud:

A crime in which the perpetrator develops a scheme using the mails to defraud another of money or property. This crime specifically requires the intent to defraud, and is a federal offense governed by section 1341 of title 18 of the U.S. Code.

Talk to the other people he's trading with. It's a federal crime, and can land him in prison for 5 years. A friend of mine went to school with a kid who tried pulling a similar stunt (mail trade of items) and landed in prison for 4 years in Rawlins, Wyoming for his efforts.

Maybe let him know this too...

asmodeanreborn wrote:Mail Fraud:

A crime in which the perpetrator develops a scheme using the mails to defraud another of money or property. This crime specifically requires the intent to defraud, and is a federal offense governed by section 1341 of title 18 of the U.S. Code.

Talk to the other people he's trading with. It's a federal crime, and can land him in prison for 5 years. A friend of mine went to school with a kid who tried pulling a similar stunt (mail trade of items) and landed in prison for 4 years in Rawlins, Wyoming for his efforts.

Maybe let him know this too...

That's good to know. I didn't know that was even an option for scammers!

This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal. For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

JoeCat,

Glad to see you took my advice and posted here, also thank you for letting us know which guy is the puke that is screwing with you. Ironically I have traded with Midnight as well, it's sad to see people take a turn to crime (that sounds so comic book lol) but it happens and it's important we nail his ass to the wall. Threats are not something to just be bandied about like they mean nothing. Hope you get your cards.


For all you other guys, he was gonna trade with me but abruptly cancelled and expressed his indignation that this site is full of scammers, I told him to make a post about it and ask for help (I don't know this info as much as others). Glad you all were here to prove that most of us are upstanding gentlemen and ladies.

Cheers,
Amarus Cameron

These should stay in the BTR forum imo. This is just he said she said and being tried in the court of public opinion. Both sides sent without delivery conf. and both are claiming to not receive anything. Both could be telling the truth or lying, and neither can prove it. Even better is the other party is the one who asked about the status of the cards first. Midnight didn't claim to not have the cards in response to Joe asking him about it, midnight asked first, then Joe claimed he hasn't received either.

My crystal ball predicts the mods will point out the rule that reminds them to use delivery conf. and since both parties claim to have received nothing and can't prove otherwise that the trade is going to be written off.

I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

AmarusCameron wrote:I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

I didn't miss it. It was stupid on his part to say it, but he is frustrated about being out $50 in a trade. I can understand that. Everyone who thinks he is really going to drive 6 hours to yell at a guy about a magic card raise their hands. I think posting one side of a story and letting the other person be tried in the court of public opinion is a problem. Let the mods sort this out. Look at the feedbacks. Joe has 12 trades and 2 neutrals, midnight has 88 and no neutral or negative. Which trader is the one that other people have had problems with and which one hasn't had one dissatisfied trade partner until now?

Not exactly sure where this idea of " Threatening" comes. Just what was posted and not knowing the conversation in its context I could easily assume it means that they dont live that far apart and it shouldnt have taken that long to get to either.

That being said, there's really no excuse for not using DC and tracking on a trade of that size although its kinda of strange that neither them have recieved anything.

joecat70 wrote:Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

Not, specifically.

Now, there are certain cases (like what I did with an asshat detailed here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699) where you can take some action.

Sadly this kid ended up escorted out of the very event he threatened to find me at.

But legally? Nah, not really. It's technically considered a threat, but the honest answer is the cops won't do anything *until* its too late.

Mods can, however, take action. It won't get your LOTV back though without filing mail fraud. I'd personally do it.

Vincentarasin wrote:

joecat70 wrote:Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

Not, specifically.

Now, there are certain cases (like what I did with an asshat detailed here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699) where you can take some action.

That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

Very entertaining indeed ^_^

Helios52 wrote:That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

If you get a kick out of that, you should come hang out at my LGS :P

Its absolutely entertaining as heck :)

Especially when they see my playmats, heh. I'll have to contact the mods and see if I can post pictures without getting in trouble =P

jassi007 wrote:

AmarusCameron wrote:I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

I didn't miss it. It was stupid on his part to say it, but he is frustrated about being out $50 in a trade. I can understand that. Everyone who thinks he is really going to drive 6 hours to yell at a guy about a magic card raise their hands. I think posting one side of a story and letting the other person be tried in the court of public opinion is a problem. Let the mods sort this out. Look at the feedbacks. Joe has 12 trades and 2 neutrals, midnight has 88 and no neutral or negative. Which trader is the one that other people have had problems with and which one hasn't had one dissatisfied trade partner until now?

Take a look at the previous conversation on this page and you will see that other trades that midnight is a part of have similar situations. Pay attention before you start making assuming judgements just based on # of trades

dorvaan wrote:This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal. For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

That's what I thought until one of my recent trades. I'm out a Snapcaster because of it.


"June 20: Out for Delivery"
"June 20: Delivery Status not updated"


Aaaaand yeah. No more Snapcaster, and I had to send a new one out.

Vincentarasin wrote:

Helios52 wrote:That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

If you get a kick out of that, you should come hang out at my LGS :P

Its absolutely entertaining as heck :)

Especially when they see my playmats, heh. I'll have to contact the mods and see if I can post pictures without getting in trouble =P

I want to see the playmats... : )

asmodeanreborn wrote:

dorvaan wrote:This is also why I ALWAYS print my mailing label with Paypal. For $1.69, you'll have tracking information, so there can never be a dispute about if a card was delivered or not.

That's what I thought until one of my recent trades. I'm out a Snapcaster because of it.


"June 20: Out for Delivery"
"June 20: Delivery Status not updated"


Aaaaand yeah. No more Snapcaster, and I had to send a new one out.

If you call Customer Service and file a case they can put a tracer on it and when it shows up will call you and you can either have it sent to the original destination or back to you. This does take sometime tho cause when it happened to me, the card bounced around for month before I had any idea where it was. That being said, Ive noticed that insuring packages tends to get more attention from the PO bc when they are actually responsible to pay you back if they lose it, they actually update it accordingly.

1441425842 wrote:

jassi007 wrote:

AmarusCameron wrote:I think you are forgetting the part where Midnight threatened JoeCat. Not cool.

Also, I think a post on here asking for help (if you don't know what the BTR forum is) is not an issue.

I didn't miss it. It was stupid on his part to say it, but he is frustrated about being out $50 in a trade. I can understand that. Everyone who thinks he is really going to drive 6 hours to yell at a guy about a magic card raise their hands. I think posting one side of a story and letting the other person be tried in the court of public opinion is a problem. Let the mods sort this out. Look at the feedbacks. Joe has 12 trades and 2 neutrals, midnight has 88 and no neutral or negative. Which trader is the one that other people have had problems with and which one hasn't had one dissatisfied trade partner until now?

Take a look at the previous conversation on this page and you will see that other trades that midnight is a part of have similar situations. Pay attention before you start making assuming judgements just based on # of trades

I did see that. Then I looked at his trades. There are a lot of them pending, but almost none of them are marked as shipped by either party. Nobody else he has traded with has opened a BTR or left him anything other than a positive feedback. There is one other trade that midnight received the cards, but the other party didn't yet. Midnight sent on 7/18 so its only been 5 days. I don't see any comments on any trades, so I don't get what people are saying about his trades indicating he is a scammer. In all seirousness, what am I missing? It looks like there are a lot of proposed but not accepted trades. That happens to me when I go on a trading spree, then they all get marked as confirmed, then complete etc. Does having a bunch of pending trades just automatically mean you are scamming?

Helios52 wrote:

Vincentarasin wrote:

joecat70 wrote:Also can I do anything about him threatening to show up at my door?

Not, specifically.

Now, there are certain cases (like what I did with an asshat detailed here: http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8699) where you can take some action.

That was an entertaining read if there ever was one lol

Yeah, that was a pretty good read. Also, Sebi said he was banned for 3 months... almost 3 months ago.
Looks like that person's ban is going to lift in the next few days. Think he'll be back?

They are looking within trades themselves at the offers being made and assuming that it means hes scamming because some of them seem lopsided and he has opened trades from 2 months ago. Honestly I dont think that can really constitute scamming because it could just as easily be starting offer to gauge interest. If thats what people deem scamming, I may have to change my approach lol