So I've been playing this fringe deck which evolved out of me playing G/b devotion with Doomwake Giant and noticing that both spot removal and especially board wipes just ended up being back breaking.  Killing my devotion which is a key advantage to playing a deck like G/b Devotion was easy for most of the other standard decks in the metagame. 

So I turned to Blue with counter magic, now that Supreme Verdict is gone the board wipes are all able to be countered.

With Blue I also tap into the power that is Prophet of Kruphix.

I've been playing this deck and tweaking it for a bit at a Grand Prix (early) at my LGS and a couple of SCG IQ.  I've had mixed variety of success but totally bombed at the GP with the early iterations of the deck but as I've tuned it to the current version I've seen some success.  Was one game away from Top 8 at the most recent IQ in my area and I probably lost on a bad keep in game 2. 

Anyway, here is the deck http://deckbox.org/sets/853425 as I'm planning to play it next.  Open to suggestions.  Basically once I've got devotion Nykthos online with Prophet and counter magic in hand the whole game seems unfair to my opponent.  Bident and Hornet Queen are just unfair for card advantage or killing all their dudes and clearing the way for polukranos and/or Arbor Colossus. 

Would love to hear the deckbox.org community thoughts on what I've been playing and working on.  BTW Aetherspouts is a new addition to the sideboard and hasn't been played or even tested yet.

Could also just go 1 or 2 more Caves of Koilos which will also help you Despise, Thoughtseize, or Blood-soaked Champion on turn one.

Then you can play a tapped land (Temple or Nomad Outpost) and another Despise or Thoughtseize or champ on Turn 2.  Setting yourself up for Brimaz, Rabblemaster, or Downfall on turn 3. 

If you can make your 4th land drop with threats on the board and play two spells like a Downfall/Rabblemaster and a Despise/Thoughtseize to strip their hand of answers you are probably in the driver's seat at that point.

As for what to cut for the extra land(s) moving the Whip and/or the Roc to the side would be my suggestion as neither usually do anything insane the turn they come in, whereas Sorin is a psuedo whip with the option to make a 2/2 flyer and Sarkhan is either 4  damage to the face or a removal spell for one of their troubling X/4 or less. 

Both the Whip and the Roc are great cards but feed your plan less in game one.  They both could/should have spots in the sideboard though.

Aegis of the Gods seems bad, you've already got decent enough life gain to counteract burn and a burn deck is just going to burn that little guy and still just burn your face.  I think 1 Whip and 2 Wingmate Roc replace those 3 slots in the sideboard.

I think 23 land is a little light with your curve and if you stall on 3 land and/or the wrong colors for your multiple XWW, XBB, XRR spells you'll be kicking yourself for only playing 23 land while holding a Butcher, Elspeth, and a Sarkhan in hand and dying to Mantis Riders and Burn, or Siege Rhinos. 

Suggest bumping up to 24 or 25 land. Probably a Plains and another Caves of Koilos to help you better cast your Brimaz or Hero's Downfall on time for a decent curve.

4

(1 replies, posted in General Discussion)

You can search the card database for a specific set (Edition Printed In) then on the left hand side it will show the numbers in your inventory.

Your store probably has Theros, Born of the Gods, and Journey to Nyx boosters as well which are also legal in standard. Frankly trying to build a constructed deck out of just the latest core set would be pretty difficult. 

Also Khans of Tarkir become legal this coming weekend.

No offense but I think you are looking at Chandra, Pyromaster the wrong way. Chandra's +1 is a utility to kill 1 toughness creatures or to prevent your opponent's biggest dude from blocking, her real value is her 0 ability.  This is basically a free card draw every turn, which is liquid gold.  If you don't need it don't cast it and it gets lost but now you are one card closer to the card you do need. 

Don't give up on Chandra as a mainboard card yet.  Think about how you're using her.  If she's out on the board use her 0 ability before you play a land or cast any other spells. You may exile a land, or Stormbreath Dragon.

How did you do at your FNM/Gameday after the changes? 

What cards seemed to work or be relevant every time you drew them and what cards seemed to be useless and sit in your hand? 

Did you have any cards that you really wanted to cast but couldn't because of mana colors being wrong?

I've copied your deck, and am modifying it how I think I might do it without adding a bunch of really expensive cards.

Let me know how you did.

I think this is a pretty sweet rough draft somewhat similar to the Tier 1 Jund Monsters deck except in Naya colors and about half the price.  You mentioned you're trying to use cards from your inventory to improve it and build a sideboard.

First, I notice you have a Chandra, Pyromaster in your inventory that card needs to be in your 75.  It's a beast with Courser of Kruphix.  You may even want to mainboard it by swapping it in for a Lightning Strike this will round out your curve to 8 total 4 drop threats. 

Second, I think you're a bit light on mana for your top end threats of XenaGod and Elspeth. Jund Monsters gets away with 23 land and 2 of them being Mutavault because it plays 7-8 accelerator creatures with both Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid.  I'd cut the 2 Hornet Nest and add a Stomping Ground and another Caryatid.  This will help your base be more solid and help you cast your Courser, Polukranos, Phoenix, Xenagod Planeswalker, or Chandra on time.

Also, there may be too many temples basic land which could/should be shocklands to help you cast things on time.

Boros Charm needs to be in this deck.  They're a little expensive for an uncommon ($1.50-$2.00) but they do a ton for your gameplan: saving your team against Supreme Verdict or Planar Cleansing, double-striking for one of your big guys, or just 4 damage to your opponent's dome as a finisher.  Get em and a find a spot for them if you can. 

There is no reason to have 4 Bow of Nylea in the 75.  This should be a 1 of in the sideboard at most in my opinion.  Good to bring in against Mono-Blue Devotion and some other aggro-decks. 

You don't have a Domri Rade, so I won't go there, Elspeth maybe a little too ambitious and somewhat against your big monster strategy with her -3 is going to hit your game winners of Stormbreath Dragon and Polukranos. 

Lastly you probably want some Ghor-Clan Rampager to push through damage especially with Polukranos.  For as bad as a XenaGod trigger on a Polukranos for a 10/10 hasty hydra may seem it still gets chump blocked by a 1/1 token.

If I have time later I'll copy your list and make some mods and post it to see what you think.

9

(3 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Have you looked at any of the Selesnya Aggro and Midrange decks that already utilize Voice of Resurgence

Why did you tire of your Selesnya deck?

What about going GWB (Junk) and use the new GB god to create snake tokens at instant speed to pump the tokens left behind by voice? 

Just some ideas.

Splashing red for Rakdos's Return should fit into your strategy nicely.

Eliterawr wrote:

what no biovisonary hmm lol i like progenetic mimic hes a fun card especially if u wait for someone to activate o say Thassa or Xenagod u copy them bc they would be a creature and u win while copying them smile

Why would you use Progenitor Mimic to copy a Legendary?

Like Tywoo said this was a deck right after Reckoner was printed, people called it Lucky Charms. 

You can pull the combo in just Boros colors now if you wanted with Swift Justice and it's a little easier. 

Add in a Frontline Medic and just be aggressive and it can be pretty easy if they chose to block Boros Reckoner.  Cast Swift Justice after combat while Reckoner's ability is on the stack.  Boom infinite life.

For added shenanigans play Archangel of Thune

With it and Reckoner in play cast Spark Jolt then Swift Justice on Boros Reckoner.

Infinite life and infinite +1/+1 on all your creatures.  No indestructible required.  Could be interrupted with a 2 damage instant that can target Reckoner but if you Turn 5 Archangel of Thune you probably can Turn 6 cast the whole combo if you can make a land drop.  If they have no fliers or removal your angel swings for the win.

It's cute, appropriate for FNM every now and then, but in anything really competitive there is so much "destroy target creature" hate that can hit your dudes playing just for the combo without a good aggro or mid-range plan that can win without the combo is probably going to get frustrating as many times you're going to be almost there and bam, Doom Blade, Abrupt Decay, Hero's Downfall, etc.

13

(4 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Overall I think your 75 look strong.  Keep in mind you can't use your Selesnya Charm to pump your Blood Baron. 

I think a main weakness is a lack of card draw and card advantage.  Though your 8 Scry Lands can help you filter and Courser of Kruphix can help a bit as well even if he does make an Advent of the Wurm less of a surprise sometimes.  Hunter's Prowess is just an idea here.  It can target Blood Baron who is already resilient to removal and act almost like a better Sphinx's Revelation especially if your opponent can't block.  7 damage, 7 life, draw 7 cards!  This would seal the deal in most games if your opponent doesn't have an answer for it.  Something to consider but if you can't find the time to test it a bit I wouldn't jam it in and go to a PTQ. 

I think Revoke Existence needs to find a spot in your sideboard.  Or Unravel the Aether if you think instant speed is more important.

You need to be able to have an answer to the various gods before they get "turned on" (which would make Selesnya Charm an option) because some of them are doing too many good things even if they aren't creatures yet.  Thinking mostly of Ephara, Xenagos, and Mogis.  You really don't want them hanging around even just as enchantments.  T4 Xenagos from G/R Monsters can equal a T5 hasted Polukranos swinging for 10 potentially with mana open for Ghor-Clan Rampager Bloodrush or a Flesh // Blood.

Have you playtested against other common Legacy archetypes?  What are you having trouble with?  What is happening that is bad?

As far as your early game and looking for 2-3 drops I'd recommend any RR or RRR creatures with haste and adding Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to help with a consistent ramp factor.  Guys like Ash Zealot can put pressure on or at least draw their removal and hate while you setup to drop your bombs. 

None of your bombs have haste nor do they have a way to get haste leaves them open to sorcery speed wipes and removal.  Which in terms of card advantage is a two for 1.  You cast geosurge to cast Balefire, then pass turn.  Doomblade is a two for one, possibly on your turn.  That's a problem.

15

(15 replies, posted in Decks and Deckbuilding)

Eliterawr wrote:

my dimir is kinda mono-black splashed blue, bc i want a backup plan lol
pretty much pack rat, des. demon, consumming aberation, ashiok, jace, shadow ally denizen, mutavaults, phenax, tome scour, nightveils and tramatize

pretty much play like normal T1 thoughtseize/tome scour, t2 pack rat, t3 rat/nightveil/tome scour another packrat , t4 demon, t5 C.A t6 phenax, t7 tramatize and tap C.A (mills the other half due to phenax's ability)

also kinda stack hero's downfall/doomblade's to help survive, use jace memory adept to help mill, ashiok for creature advantage/mill

You and I talked about this strategy a little bit in the Mill deck thread... I have to agree with elpablo though that Tome Scour is bad here (and probably everywhere). 

I think a good way to make the Consuming Aberration, Traumatize and Phenax "combo" work is playing heavy hand attack style control early with some counterspells available in turn 3 and 4. 

Something like:
T1: Watery Grave, Thoughtseize
T2: Swamp, Dimir Charm to choose/know what they will draw next and get rid of the 2 "best" cards in their top 3
T3: Land, you should know what their hand still looks like, either stay untapped for a counterspell or do something like Mind Rot if you don't think they are going to do anything useful
T4: Land (hopefully, probably want to run 25-26 land minimum with this style deck), Thoughtseize or Duress keep 3 open for counter. 
T5: Land and Traumatize

T6: Depending on what you think or know about what they have in their hand is going to dictate how you proceed.  Keep in mind depending on what they've done so far they should have nearly half or more of their deck in their GY.  You can look at the entire thing.  Did you mill and/or make them discard all or most of their hate cards?  Can you guess how many more are in there?  Based on your last peek at their hand and what's in the GY can you calculate the probability they have a hate card in their hand.  What about the odds they top deck one during their turn?  Do you have another land to drop?  If you can have 6 mana you can Duress or Thoughtseize before playing the Consuming Aberration to increase it's chances of survival. 

If you have the 6th land and think they have the hate card but you're holding a Dispel play the Consuming Aberration then counter the hate and let them mill some more cards.

T7: Phenax, tap Consuming Aberration likely mill to zero. 

The whole idea is that you can destroy and control to a great degree what they have in their hand to interact with you and your cards.  You counter and remove threats that they do manage to play.  You hopefully put them in the position of having to top-deck a response to your strategy. 

The only problem would be to find a good way to get some draw to perpetuate even greater card advantage.  If Divination were instant speed it would be a decent option... perhaps the new black 2/2 with Inspire and the mana drum thing could help, a little ramp and extra draw.  With 26 lands he may not even hurt you too bad. 

Just some ideas.

My buddy has been running Esper Control in standard and while unorthodox he runs Mind Rot in the SB for aggro/burn.  Getting them to top-decking quickly causes them to burn out before you do in a lot of games.

Like TyWoo said having 12 at the 2-drop point is usually a good place to be.  With 8 of the 12 being 3/3 creatures in Call of the Conclave and Fleecemane Lion you have a high probability of drawing at least one in your beginning hand which is where you want to be. 

Selesnya Charm is almost always good whenever you draw it during a game.  Don't be too hasty to drop that 2/2 knight as soon as possible though, the true strength of the charm is having it in your hand when you need it.  It's the utility of that spell that makes it almost always good.  Don't think of it as a creature summon spell unless you need a creature and need it at instant speed.

Ah, you're talking about the new Phenax God.

Yeah, that could be pretty boss. 

You could load up on Thoughtseize, Duress, Dimir Charm, maybe even Mind Rot to destroy their hand on a good curve, then Traumatize, then Consuming Aberration, then Phenax and tap Aberration for what should be the rest of their deck. 


I like it.

Eliterawr wrote:

All i have to say is...
Traumatize+ consumming aberration + phenax woot i win
Trama them half deck gone
CA become really big number/really big.number
Play phenax tap CA for the other half
Just need wright of precinct six nighthowler and packrats to fill in mid game probably doom blade heros downfall thoughtseize. Tome scour maybe any other suggestions

I don't know what this means.

Are you talking about Disciple of Phenax? I don't see how he really helps the Mill aspect.  The Disciple reveals cards in hand equal to your black devotion then they discard a card you choose. 

If you play Breaking // Entering early, then a Consuming Aberration later he's going to be at least an 8/8 most of the time, probably bigger.  Traumatize will trigger Consuming Aberration causing them to mill until revealing a land, then Traumatize will resolve milling half of what's left. 

Consuming Aberration would be huge but tapping him doesn't mill anything.  Though if he isn't blocked or destroyed it's probably game due to damage.

Mono-black is going to cast Thoughtseize nearly anytime they get it anyway unless they've recently seen your hand and don't want to pay 2 life for any of your cards, then they might feed their Thoughtseize to Pack Rat or something.

I'd agree that Scavenging Ooze often ends up under performing, especially if you're already winning.  But it's also straight up won me games when top decked mid or late game.  Particularly against control and Mono-Black Devotion matches where at least my graveyard tends to get filled up.  He comes in gains me back some life and becomes a 6/6 or 7/7 that can close a game especially with Flesh // Blood.

The Xenagos god is definitely a card I'm looking forward to testing in this G/R monsters shell.  I think 4 of is going to be too much though.  He's probably a 2 of.  He shares a mana slot near the top of the curve with Stormbreath Dragon and he's legendary so multiples of a card that is such a pain to remove seems bad. 

You usually don't want him in your opening hand that much compared to Domri Rade, Xenagos, the Reveler and Polukranos, World Eater

Drawing into him turn 3,4, or 5 would be ideal.  You definitely don't want to see more than one copy in your hand before turn 5 and if you run 4 of that might happen a lot.

I'm in the process of testing a new Jundish version of the deck: http://deckbox.org/sets/581107

I've noticed that in a lot of games with the original or some of the modified versions of G/R Monsters that because I only have limited life gain via Scavenging Ooze and limited removal to keep opponents' devotion in check I often lose because of Gray Merchant of Asphodel dinging me and gaining them life putting them out of range of my creatures and Flesh // Blood kills. 

This deck is already a good powerhouse of damage, but if it gets outpaced by devotion stuff it often falls behind.  Double Gary or double Fanatic of Mogis in consecutive turns often lead to disappointing defeats, where I've even had board advantage and was a turn or two away from winning. 

So inject Black, and lifelink, via Whip of Erebos which gives us lots of good stuff. 

Let me know what you think.

http://deckbox.org/sets/587868

Threw this together, Archaeomancer kind of thrown in on a whim since Snapcaster Mage is no longer in standard Archaeomancer is about as close as we've got.  He can bring back a hate card or a Breaking // Entering card then chump block and die for all we care.

Strionic Resonator can be really powerful with both Consuming Aberration and Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker almost hilariously powerful with Mirko... mill until we see 8 lands!

Rogue's Passage gives us a way to sneak Mirko in for the mill or if our Consuming Aberration is enormous, sneak it in for the win by damage.

Another person I've met that's playing the G/R Monsters shell plays 2 Chandra, Pyromaster mainboard.  I think he has 4 Mizzium Mortars in the side.  So he runs 4 Domri Rade, 3 Xenagos, the Reveler, 2 Chandra, Pyromaster, and 1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts

He leaves the creatures the same and the number of Flesh // Blood at 2. 

He seems to like it, he says he mostly uses Chandra's 0 ability to get card advantage unless stopping a creature from blocking is going to be profitable for him on the attack.

Splashing White for Supreme Verdict isn't a bad idea either and curves well into those 5 drop creatures. 

T1: Temple of Silence
T2: Island, Breaking // Entering
T3: Swamp, then either Pilfered Plans or stay untapped for Psychic Strike
T4: Land, Supreme Verdict
T5: Land, Consuming Aberration or Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker

Supreme Verdict is devastating card advantage when you're able to use it at the right time.  But it's $5-7 a copy so not exactly cheap and you'll definitely need some shocklands to make sure you can make your mana right playing in Esper colors.

He means that with a Mill strategy you are attacking their library.  Which, after the starting draw, will have 53 cards in it.  Your goal is to get that to zero and have him draw a card.

The only advantage to Mill in this regard, is that he will lose at least one "life" every turn. 

So let's say you are on the play.  On your second turn he will likely have 52 cards in his library.  You play a second land and cast the Breaking half of Breaking // Entering he mills 7.  He now has 45 cards in his library.  He'll draw and have 44. 

I love Mill decks but elpablo makes some very good points, just milling their library isn't going to be fast enough to win most of the time.  You need cards in the deck that can manage to do other things, like establish a board presences, keep their board presence down, and gain you card advantage. 

That being said there are some cards, in standard no less, that can help do that and I don't think they are particularly expensive ones.

Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker is a milling madman.  A little expensive mana wise for a 2/4 flyer but his milling ability is top notch for a creature.  Get him out mid-late in the game and find a way to get him in for damage to start closing the deal.

Psychic Strike - 3 drop counter spell with a mill boost.  Perfect for helping to control the board while moving you closer to your goals. 

Pilfered Plans - This is basically Divination with a free mill effect.  Gain card advantage and move closer to the goal. 

Stay in the game with Crypt Incursion 3 life for every creature you've milled. 

Consuming Aberration helps you control the mid-late ground game and gets you added mill effect whenever you cast any spell.   He's the most expensive card I've mentioned so far at about $2-4, but you don't need 4 of him.  Also, he presents an alternate win condition if your opponent can't manage to keep up with your board state.

Now for pure milling, Breaking // Entering is drop dead gorgeous 2 mana for 8 cards is pretty efficient.  That many cards, makes it worth it I think and it powers up your later game Consuming Aberration or Crypt Incursion.

Other than that I think elpablo's suggestion of a bunch of removal to stall your opponent's threats while later you play heavy's like Consuming Aberration and/or Mirko.