Giumbus wrote:If possible, add here a reference to your previous conversation on this topic with the dev.
It was in a support ticket, not in the forums. I sent him a list of all the token pairs for C14 - C18, then followed up with this discussion:
meldon44
How will you handle transitioning everybody's inventory? Because some people have already added the tokens in their current single-sided versions, but those tokens can't simply be renamed as they could with the Modern Event Deck tokens.Will the incorrect single-sided tokens disappear from their inventory? Or will you maintain the incorrect tokens for "backwards compatibility"? If so, will they be visible on the Editions page along with the new double-sided tokens, or will you keep them in the database but hidden from view and inaccessible from card searching?
Sebi
Yeah, this is tricky, which is also why i have avoided fixing this until now, I'm really not sure how to migrate the old ones to the new 
meldon44
My recommendation? Let it be decided by the people it'll actually affect. I would create a poll in the Announcements forum, with the following 3 options:
Immediate Migration = old tokens disappear from inventories
Delayed Migration = old and new will both be in the database for [a year], at which point old tokens will disappear
No Migration = old and new versions will be maintained indefinitely
I don't know how feasible this is for you, but another thing you could consider is sending messages to all affected accounts prior to migrating, to inform them that their single-sided tokens will soon disappear.
Sebi
Yeah... complicated. I'm not convinced yet it's worth the data loss... I'll think about this some more.
meldon44
I definitely understand your concern! And I apologize for bugging you with it -- I'll leave you alone to think about it.
One final thought on the matter: If data loss is your primary concern, then the best option seems to be to just support both token versions. I personally (and I know there's others like me) am very picky about my collection, tracking even basic lands and checklist cards! So it is very important to me that I be able to correctly add all the double-sided tokens. There's just no way to meaningfully add them as single-sided tokens.
There's several ways you could go about this. You could:
add both versions to the existing Extras editions, resulting in both a single- and double-sided token name for each collector number (e.g. Extras: C14 would have #1 Angel, #1 Angel // Cat, #2 Cat, #2 Kor Soldier // Pegasus, etc.)
change the edition name of the current single-sided edition for legacy support (something like Extras: Commander 201x [Legacy]) and add the double-sided to the official Extras: Commander 201x editions
or vice versa -- keep the current edition name intact for single-sided, and instead add the double-sided tokens under an aptly-named edition like Extras: Commander 201x [Double-Sided]
I'm sure everyone would have their own preference, but I'd honestly be fine with any of them (though the last option seems the least good to me).
However, those recommendations I made were based on the existing system. I did not even attempt to come up with a new system....
Giumbus wrote:I think these double sided tokens require a new internal card type, something like a "token pair" which should:
let every one choose the card numbers forming the pair such as T001 + T003 (Manifest + Angel)
should add 1 to both tokens on the "Extras - Tokens & Emblems" list (this may imply that one can no longer add these particular tokens to his inventory by "plusing" them on the "Extras - Tokens & Emblems" list since it would require a simultaneous "plusing" of two cards, unless the dev implements something specific for this usage)
count as a single card
for search purposes should have the token type and searches (by name, by card text, etc.) must consider the content of both sides of the card
I won't expect an automatic setting of the existing cards in peoples' inventories since that would require so many tests and may lead to this feature remaining not implemented but rather let every user correctly set its cards.
....which is why I really like this suggestion!
This would actually be an amazing system. It would simplify import for Sebi, and it's also flexible and robust enough to cover all situations. And importantly for the precedent set by Modern Horizons, if that continues as a trend, this system would greatly simplify the situation. The Modern Horizons situation creates a very complicated token environment. Already 76 combinations are in the Extras: Double Sided edition for Modern Horizons (alongside the single-sided, foil-only Extras edition), and still people have been reporting even more combinations that aren't listed.
In contrast, in the system you're proposing, there'd be a mere 21 tokens for Modern Horizons, all listed in a single, unified edition on Deckbox. But from those 21 tokens, people could create any conceivable combination (even if it didn't actually exist, which I think is an acceptable "side effect", because it's up to a user to be accurate when entering cards).
To potentially eliminate some amount of user error, Sebi could mark some editions as being single-sided only, double-sided only, or both permissible. So when adding tokens to the first type of edition, no pairing would even be possible, and vice versa -- when adding tokens to the second type, Deckbox would require a pairing. Sets like Modern Horizons would allow both. (That said, considering the fact that we're still waiting on a feature to be added that would ensure that the database requires or disallows foil for certain editions / cards, e.g. FTV series or promos, we probably would be waiting on this functionality for tokens as well, since it's a similar type of setting. I'm sure it would entail changing a fundamental aspect of his database design, so I understand why it wouldn't be something he'd implement quickly.)
Another way to keep things organized would be a standardized way of displaying the paired tokens, regardless of how they are entered. For example, I could add a C14 Angel token first, then pick the Cat token to pair it with, or I could first add the Cat token then pair that with the Angel token. But in either case, Deckbox would display it as Angel // Cat, and never Cat // Angel.
Giumbus wrote:(this may imply that one can no longer add these particular tokens to his inventory by "plusing" them on the "Extras - Tokens & Emblems" list since it would require a simultaneous "plusing" of two cards, unless the dev implements something specific for this usage)
As to your concern about it messing up the current ability to "plus" a card from the editions page, I think the best approach may be the simple one:
If I "plus" an Angel token from Extras: C14, I'll initially get a single-sided Angel token (which doesn't exist, but Deckbox could allow it). Then I just need to click on the green Count box next to the plus, and in that dialog would be the new "Pair" dropdown (similar to the language dropdown). Once I pair the Cat token to it, I can look at the count for Cat on that edition page, and it should have increased by 1. Opening the green Count dialogs for either token will show a row that's distinct from any other pairings (or from incorrectly created single-sided versions). So e.g. in C14, I could click on the Zombie token and see something like the following (imagine icons and count boxes in place of the brackets!):
[2] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Demon #12]
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Germ #14]
From there, I could change counts for specific pairings as desired, or use the current split feature to split that example first row into the following two rows and change the language thus:
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Demon #12]
[1] [0] [NM] [DE] [Paired with Demon #12]
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Germ #14]
If I were to click the "Add New Row" button in the dialog, just as with the plus button, it would initially add a single-sided token with the current defaults:
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Not paired]
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Demon #12]
[1] [0] [NM] [DE] [Paired with Demon #12]
[1] [0] [NM] [EN] [Paired with Germ #14]
Meanwhile, in my Inventory, if I filtered down to the Extras: C14 edition, I should see:
[1] [0] Demon // Zombie [Price] [C14] [NM] [EN]
[1] [0] Demon // Zombie [Price] [C14] [NM] [DE]
[1] [0] Germ // Zombie [Price] [C14] [NM] [EN]
[1] [0] Zombie [Price] [C14] [NM] [EN]
